EMR

I take the opinion of those who were born ,have lived, worked , paid taxes etc in Portugal all their lives , who are familiar with all the systemsand nuances of how things are done, who to contact, who has influence etc over any expat with a certain political viewpoint.
I would hardly call Costa left wing compared with the two parties who are prepared to disown their radical policies in order to get some influence in government.
Political accuity as you term it means little to anyone whose primary concerns is having a job tomorrow and earning enough to feed their families.

GeniB

The fact of the matter is people don't care! At least they don't care enough to vote. They are cynical,they have every right to be bearing in mind what has happened to them over the last 10 yrs.It's happening in many countries now.Coalitions! They force parties to co-operate for the good of the country and not for the good of the parties. The Netherlands has had a coalition for yrs now and in the main it works.Who cares about point scoring if moody's downgrade us again and the country can't get credit? It matters not a jot that Moody's is a corrupt as all get out,along with S&P and that the Fed is owned by the US Government and that their debt is marked in Trillions of dollars.The rules do not apply evenly or fairly and never have. The Point is- Portugal has to be seen to pay it's way,has to maintain growth,has to inspire confidence for those who hold the purse strings. This is not the time to rock the boat

Red Eric

I didn't say Costa is left wing compared to the politicians in the other parties of the left - I said he is on the left wing of the party he represents, just as Passos Coelho is on the right of the party he represents. It helps in understanding that the two are not at all close politically, as some are trying to have us believe.

The other parties the Socialists are talking to are not disowning any of their policies. They are merely negotiating so that they can agree on what a government they back should include in its programme and what, as far as they're concerned, can not be included ie coming to a common position on some points.
I doubt very much you could tell, apart from the fact that I'm obviously left rather than right of center, what my certain political viewpoint is. Whatever it is, I do object to the misrepresentation of some of the standpoints of the parties under discussion, for example the constant repetition that the BE and the PCP are in favour of exiting the EU, when neither, to the best of my knowledge, has ever campaigned for that and it certainly isn't part of either's current or recent policy. You say you have local election posters stating so - either you have misunderstood them or they don't belong to BE or PCP (there are other parties not represented in this parliament which may advocate EU withdrawal).

As that point is one which is being seized upon by both the Kipper Tendency and the Don't-Rock-The-Boaters, it's important to be clear on the matter and should be borne in mind when Cavaco makes his second intervention.

One other thing for now - I think that the English language reports (what there are of them) are far too eager to put unhelpful labels on the different flavours of Portuguese left wing politics, something which is generally avoided in Portuguese language articles and broadcasts. Constantly calling such parties radical, extreme or ultra doesn't go any way towards explaining what their policies are on different matters or how they differ from each other. It does tend to colour peoples' opinions though. It might seem strange to you but for some people, maintaining the status quo is neither apolitical nor moderate, however much you might wish to represent it as such.

Jon-Bxl

Marmite - Nigel

you either love him or hate him!

Heres what he said in the EU.

Farage: Portugal Crisis is “Modern Day Brezhnev Doctrine” | Euro Guido

Recently we had an unelected house overturn a proposal in the UK - so I dont claim that we have a perfect democracy. But putting aside politics and speaking factually is it right that this is in principle not democratic?
Jon

GeniB

The 'don't rock the boaters at this particular time' of which I am one
Would like to know why you feel it's necessary to explain the position(s) of the parties involved? Surely if they were being honest and transparent your input would not be needed. Can you also vouch for their honesty? Intelligence? History? Socrates has absolutely floored and disgusted those who believed wholeheartedly in him. with his unabashed greed .Which one in today's line up will be next to betray his countrymen.
As I said before.I might not like it,but I have to hope they come to some reasonable compromise for the sake of this wonderful country that just can't get a break to expand and grow as it should.

GeniB

Good old Nige wondered how he was earning his euro millions these days

Isn't 'Democracy' a wonderful thing,and how fluid it is. It serves so many masters. The UK throws it up regularly whilst carefully disallowing proportional representation ,overhauling that biased voting system.Disenfranchising ex-pat voters.: and being less than honest about the EU . starsmile:

Ingles

All off the above post & discussion's may/could be a waste off time

Esquerda derruba Governo a 10 de novembro - Exclusivos - Correio da Manhã

This is the predication of CdM

Oh dear ,I sure they call this DEMOCRACY
How can it be the "End off democracy in Portugal"
If the system works as it should?

EMR

Not just dusenfranchising exoats but 100,s thousands of otbers who have made the uk their home, work oay taxes, educate their children etc etc
The UK and its politicians, media etc gave no rights to point the finger at other nations.

GeniB

Oops must have been that mention of NIge made me lose my smile!!!

Red Eric

Two birds, one stone.

The reason I feel it's necessary to offer explanations is that key issues are being distorted in order to make points. The key issues are what the President said, whether his action is justified under the Portuguese Constitution and (to a lesser degree but still very relevant) what the parties' policies are.

The President's speech was a lot more carefully worded than most summaries boil it down to. If you haven't heard or read it in its entirety, it's available here. He explains his decision and at the end of the speech also explains that it still rests with parliament to endorse it :He does not say anywhere in that speech that he refuses point blank to appoint a different government, just explains the factors which led to his preference this time round.

As President his powers are defined by the Constitution and he has acted within the terms of it in making this decision.

The parties' policies regarding the EU come into play when they are incorrectly described as being anti-EU, as frequently happens (and indeed has been said on this thread). Farage provides a fine example on that clip - I'll steel myself one last time to get his exact phrase :which is hugely inaccurate on all counts. None of the parties is anti-EU and in fact by far the largest party is fervently pro-EU. The other two openly discuss misgivings in various areas but neither could be described as anti-EU, nor in favour of withdrawing from the EU (any more than Farage could be described as ardently Socialist, even on the evidence of that clip)

The real crunch, in terms of finding out whether democracy is alive and well, will be the President's action after the government he has appointed gets voted out in parliament on 10th or 11th November.

Ingles

And nailed it completely

EMR

I am waiting with fingers and toes crossed for the Portuguese that in the event of a change in government that policies of austerity will end.
Taxes be reduced, min wage increased, job security improved, iva reduced, tolls removed from the scut motorways etc.
Of course they and I have more chance of winning tonights lottery.
The new governments reasons will be that once in office they realised just how bad the situation was and that they will not take any steps that could affect the fragile recovery.
Life will go on very much as it did before.

Red Eric

Well it's good to see that you're finally able to overcome being in denial about the Portuguese voting for a change of government and have also been persuaded that alternative, anti-austerity politics would be a good thing for the Portuguese.

All that remains is to persuade you that it is indeed possible and that the economy as a whole will benefit (your definition of what constitutes austerity being a little narrow at the moment, in my opinion), not to mention all the social and other changes which will be possible under a different regime.

EMR

What changes that will have a fundamental effect and improve the lot of the average Portuguese and its economy do you expect the socialists should they become the government put inyo effect .
I am waiting with bated breath.

Ingles

With a bit off luck, the Socialist will not waste the Tax Payers money on excess that have just come to public attention ,which where carried by PSD-CDS-PP.

SIC Notícias - País

I not bothered about your reply ,as it's usually your personal superstition.
Where as the above is a fact & the report was issued by PT's "Tribunal de Contas"