vertigobike

Hi,, Guys!

Portugal has a steady 41 year old Democracy!

The President of the Portuguese Republic has the responsability and authority to nominate the party/coalition with the best conditions after a General Election.

Traditionally and ever the April Carnation Revolution the party/coalition that gets more votes (Winner) gets to be nominated to form Government, even though no majority is achieved in the Parliament (Assembleia da República).

So the Winner of the Election is nominated - not the Loser.
The Winner was PPD-PSD/CDS-PP that formed the "Portugal à Frente" Coalition.
The Loser was PS.

So the logic is quite simple.

After the Presidential nomination, it´s up to the party/coalition to form Government and to present the Ministers/Secretaries of State to the President for "green light"/approval. Then the Government takes power officially at the Inauguration, presenting afterwards its Program to the Parliament - a mandatory process.

This Program needs to pass in the Parliament (winning a majority of the Deputies´votes) - if not, the Government falls. Another way for the Government to fall is to get a Rejection Motion that wins the majority of the Deputies´votes; and, in reciprocity, if the Government presents a Confidence Motion to the Parliament and it doesn´t get the majority of "positive" votes from the Deputies.

So the Government answers to the Parliament and it´s up to the Parliament to pass its Program and Motions - the Deputies do have their saying.

Everyone has their own specific role and need to follow the Constitution, either we agree or disagree with Party A, B or C.

Personally I sympathise with CDS-PP since a teenager and I voted for Prof. Cavaco Silva back in 2006 - and I vote for a Person rather than a Party; but regardless of that I want my country to be governed in a very professional and honest way, increasing wealth, jobs, income and overall living conditions. Also, for Portugal to continue to be part of the Euro, European Union, NATO and to continue to pay its dues to whoever lends us money.

Even if this new PPD-PSD/CDS-PP Government falls in the Parliament and PS gets a nomination to form Government I hope all the international treaties and obligations are kept and no radical change comes upon us, as Portugal is not and should not be like Greece. We had such difficult years of recession with huge sacrifices to be wasted down the drain - I know people don´t want that - hence not giving PS or BE or PCP any more votes than PPD-PSD/CDS-PP.

So at the end of the day I hope the good old-fashioned good sense rules and is above any party rivalries.

Regards,
C a r l i t o s

Red Eric

This is hopelessly out of touch with the current position, which is that it looks a long odds-on certainty that by the end of next week the government Passos Coelho announced today will be toast, voted out in parliament following a motion of rejection against their programme.

If you think that's wishful thinking or expat ignorance we don't have long to wait to see who's right.

Red Eric

OK - let me take issue with one to demonstrate this isn't always true

Carlitos - if you check this out you'll find that although the programme must be presented in parliament, there's no requirement for it to be voted on. There will only be a vote if any of the opposition parties moves a motion of rejection.

macliam

It is not just the actions of Cavaco da Silva, but more his comments regarding the proposed left-wing coalition, that have been widely criticised. Sampaio da Nóvoa (who as a candidate for President should have as good a view as any of us) said "It’s not up to the president of the republic ....... to decide which votes are good and which votes bad, which parties good and which parties bad."

If the Socialists, BE and Communists vote down the government programme, an alternative must be found - and how much trust can there be in a President who has already expressed his opposition to the "alliance" with the greatest share of the vote?

GeniB

Amen to that Carlitos

Red Eric

Agreed but other than installing Costa as PM, there appears to be only one other option, which is a caretaker government with much reduced powers. However, there is general agreement that that would be highly unsatisfactory from the point of view of stability and medium to long term planning, not to mention (according to Jorge Miranda, who co-drafted the current Constitution and so should also know what he's talking about), being unconstitutional.

So it looks as though Cavaco might have to eat his words.

EMR

The view of those Portuguese I asked about the election was that who ever is in power little will change.
If the is a Socialist lite government life will go on very much as it does now,
high taxation, declining benefits and social support etc.

Ingles

"Life will go on very much as it doe's now"

'Fed up with politics - distrustful of politicians of all parties'

+ To top it off !

PM announces new Ministers as 'no confidence' vote looms

EMR

Do you really and honestly expect anything of any significance to change if the socialist do come to power ignoring the views of the extreme and ultra left.
No one I have spoken to does including those working in our house today, they voted for tye socialist party.


If the Portuguese electorate really wanted change and believed that the socialists could bring thus about , why did they not get a large enough majority ?

Troia

I voted for PS but I agree with Cavaco Silva position about endorsing the PSD-CDS coalition to make a governemet. AND I dont like Cavaco at ALL (out of sync, rheumatic, zero-sense-of-humour).

PSD-CDS were the most voted.

PS (Socialists) + Bloco (communists) + PC (communists) have actually more votes than PSD-CDS.

BUT they did not run to the elections together such as the PSD-CDS, they ran as separate parties with abysmal programmatic differences. PS (socialists) is basically a social democratic party the one that put Portugal in the EU and the Euro.

During the elections campaign PS was saying that would never make a coalition either with PC or Bloco (the communists) . AND vice-versa. These left wing guys were saying horrible things about each other, PS saying how voters would waste their votes in PC or Bloco, and how dangerous would be to credit those two who wanted Portugal out of Nato and the Euro.

When the elections results came out....oops... the left parties seat, got hand of a calculator machine, made their maths and came to the conclusion that PS+PC+Bloco had actually the majority of votes. A couple of phone calls later, and after some meetings the once enemies and detractors, found out after all they had many things in common (what? euro/nato exit? bacalhau recipees? Patel de Nata taste?) and are now smiling to each other.

Guess what; Cavaco said " honestly I don't think these coalition is genuine, I will follow the tradition of apointing to governement the most voted: PSD-CDS"

PC+Bloco (all communists) make up to about 15% of PT voters. These guys want PT out of the Euro and Nato

PSD-CDS (the most voted) and PS (all in favours of PT staying in the Euro/Nato made uo about 69% of the voters.

Red Eric

The Socialists aren't ignoring the views of their colleagues on the left as they cannot form a stable government without their able and willing support. They have spent many days during the past 3 weeks with teams of negotiators from all sides discussing what is possible in terms of a broad agreement between the different parties - what one might call a consensus of a majority of the parliament, a concept much in vogue with the President and his pals in the PSD - CDS/PP, who keep appealing for one

The leaders of the largest of these groups, the PS, have issued constant assurances that all of Portugal's international commitments, including those regarding finances and budgets, will be respected. Yet, despite these constraints, yes I do expect significant change in both economic and other policy.

Can I just ask - can you actually identify which policies from the current programmes of the Bloco Esquerda, the PCP and the PEV which you regard as extreme and which you regard as ultra?

EMR

[QUOTE=Red Eric;11781360]The Socialists aren't ignoring the views of their colleagues on the left as they cannot form a stable government without their able and willing support. They have spent many days during the past 3 weeks with teams of negotiators from all sides discussing what is possible in terms of a broad agreement between the different parties - what one might call a consensus of a majority of the parliament, a concept much in vogue with the President and his pals in the PSD - CDS/PP, who keep appealing for one

The leaders of the largest of these groups, the PS, have issued constant assurances that all of Portugal's international commitments, including those regarding finances and budgets, will be respected. Yet, despite these constraints, yes I do expect significant change in both economic and other policy.

Can I just ask - can you actually identify which policies from the current programmes of the Bloco Esquerda, the PCP and the PEV which you regard as extreme and which you regard as ultra?[/QUOTE

We have local election posters from the left advocating the end of Portugals membership of the Eu and the Eurozone. The return to the escudo. Etc.
If these parties are no longer saying that these are no longer their policies in return for supporting the socialists what does this say about them and their supporters.
The greek socialists failed to achieve any " significant change in economic policies etc " the same will apply to their Portuguese counterparts.

Red Eric

I'm sure I explained the current positions of the BE and the PCP in an earlier post. Finding that the Euro currency in its current form is not suitable for some of the economies of the Eurozone is not an exclusively left wing position, nor one I would regard as extreme or ultra. On the other hand, the insistence that the rules of membership of a currency which clearly doesn't suit a majority of its users will remain unchanged, no discussion, does.

However, Euro (and NATO) membership aside, I reckon you'd have trouble putting a list together for those extreme and ultra labels you're so quick to use.

Regarding Greece, I have a phrase which I believe you may have used yourself and which comes in very handy at times - Portugal isn't Greece. I have a great deal of sympathy for the Greeks in the situation in which they find themselves, as you know, but the circumstances are entirely different. It wasn't the alternatives that Greece proposed that failed, it was a failure on the part of the creditors to even consider them that will be remembered when all this blows over. But Portugal is not reliant on the ECB for liquidity in its banking system, nor on loan tranches in order to meet it's repayment schedule, nor on future financing via troika loans because it's locked out of the markets.

So there's no garotte tightening around the necks of the Portuguese government. Those in the international community concerned by the installation of a government they find not to their liking will have to find an entirely different set of tools to inflict pain.

By the way, you're missing a close bracket at the end of what you quoted of me. If you edit your post to add it back in, it will be much easier to see what you're quoting and what your reply is.

EMR

My opinion is that of the Portuguese, not expats I have discussed the elecion results with that there will be littke if any change in their daily life, tax levels etc.
Restaraunts will still pay the highef rates of iva, the road systems will continue to decline and tolls charged on scut motorways.
The min wage will still keep 100,thousands in a state of or close to poverty.
Job security will be a dream not reality.
State pensions and benefits will remain at apallingly low levels.
Whatever rhetoric the socialists come out with the reality of Portugals fragile recovery means that they will be unable to enact many if any significant election promises.

Red Eric

Let me ask you a couple more questions.

When you discuss matters regarding the UK with British citizens, do you always accept everything they say as being accurate and not worthy of further debate?

And would you automatically dismiss the opinion of a foreign-born person, long resident in the UK, as being irrelevant or inaccurate?

Surely what matters is the amount of interest those people take in what goes on around them? For anyone to profess such a lack of interest that they can't identify the difference in approach between one of the most right-wing PSD administrations ever and the left wing of the PS as represented by António Costa, I'd say demonstrates a distinct lack of political acuity.