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Electricity Costs

Electricity Costs

Old Aug 8th 2022, 12:31 pm
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Default Re: Electricity Costs

Originally Posted by SgtTroy View Post
Imho PT gov has a number of options, including reducing VAT on energy from 23%(most of it) to 13%, or even to 6% at least within the basic consumption per month, as it is already lower for the first 100 kWh. It is still 5% in the UK I believe, so Rishi Truss does not have that many opportunities.

War or no war, the days of affordable energy are gone.
Next - water 😎
We all know where Truss wants to take us. The muppet.
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Old Aug 8th 2022, 12:33 pm
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Default Re: Electricity Costs

Shocking but more or less true. My peak rate has gone up 100% and the off peak by 200%. I have to implement extreme energy saving measures just to stand still.

Last edited by BlackBeardie; Aug 8th 2022 at 12:34 pm. Reason: spelling
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Old Aug 8th 2022, 4:12 pm
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Default Re: Electricity Costs

Originally Posted by BlackBeardie View Post
Shocking but more or less true. My peak rate has gone up 100% and the off peak by 200%. I have to implement extreme energy saving measures just to stand still.
Who is your supplier?
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Old Aug 12th 2022, 2:43 pm
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Default Re: Electricity Costs

I'm on EDP commercial; comparing today's bill to one from 2020, night rate is up 1 cent and day rate is down 2 cents.

I went to the well established solar energy firm down the road from our place to ask about putting in some solar power.
The sales lady was really nice; gave me some high pressure sales tactics in the most friendly way, told me a lovely lie about the economics of batteries, and when I called her on that, she tastefully insulted my intelligence.

Solar panels are really, really cheap now so it shouldn't be this hard.
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Old Aug 13th 2022, 7:08 pm
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Default Re: Electricity Costs

So what do you reckon it would cost in panels only to provide enough kw to run a normal 3 bed house, with no swimming pool. Electricity needed for cooking and general house running, inc one AC unit 12btu inverter unit, used mainly for heating in winter. Currently with 6.9kw potential never tripped out.
Would this need battery storage?

Last edited by wellinever; Aug 13th 2022 at 7:11 pm.
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Old Aug 13th 2022, 7:30 pm
  #21  
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Default Re: Electricity Costs

Solar panels are very worthwhile now; 0.4 to 0.5 euros per watt (inc IVA).
12,000 btu is just 3,000 watts, so your inverter should draw no more that 1000 watts.

5,000 watts of pv panels today cost just 2,000 euros; support, wires, and inverter will run another 1 to 2 thousand.

that will give you electricity at no additional cost during sunlight, even in winter.
But batteries are still not worthwhile, the battery costs more per watt than EDP, even if the power you charge it with costs zero.

The next difficulty is how to store heat for use at night. You can get an "inertia" tank that will hold a lot of hot water. If it's inside your house, heat loss won't be lost (it will heat your house), and it works out ok.
If the tank is outside or in another building or the garage, it will probably lose too much heat to be worthwhile.

Batteries are (at this time) only worthwhile if you don't have grid access.

If you set the panels a little more upright, 55 degrees instead of 30-35 as they always do here, you'll get 10% more power during winter, but 10% less over the year.
You need much more in winter.
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Old Aug 14th 2022, 6:41 am
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Default Re: Electricity Costs

Originally Posted by liveaboard View Post
Solar panels are very worthwhile now; 0.4 to 0.5 euros per watt (inc IVA).
12,000 btu is just 3,000 watts, so your inverter should draw no more that 1000 watts.

5,000 watts of pv panels today cost just 2,000 euros; support, wires, and inverter will run another 1 to 2 thousand.

that will give you electricity at no additional cost during sunlight, even in winter.
But batteries are still not worthwhile, the battery costs more per watt than EDP, even if the power you charge it with costs zero.

The next difficulty is how to store heat for use at night. You can get an "inertia" tank that will hold a lot of hot water. If it's inside your house, heat loss won't be lost (it will heat your house), and it works out ok.
If the tank is outside or in another building or the garage, it will probably lose too much heat to be worthwhile.

Batteries are (at this time) only worthwhile if you don't have grid access.

If you set the panels a little more upright, 55 degrees instead of 30-35 as they always do here, you'll get 10% more power during winter, but 10% less over the year.
You need much more in winter.
You could store that heat in night storage heaters which are set to come on during the day instead of at night. That's what I plan to do if I get solar PV panels as I already have the storage heaters.
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Old Aug 14th 2022, 9:41 am
  #23  
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Default Re: Electricity Costs

I just read that the IVA on PV panels purchased in Portugal has been reduced to 6% from July this year.



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Old Aug 14th 2022, 4:34 pm
  #24  
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Default Re: Electricity Costs

Originally Posted by liveaboard View Post
Solar panels are very worthwhile now; 0.4 to 0.5 euros per watt (inc IVA).
12,000 btu is just 3,000 watts, so your inverter should draw no more that 1000 watts.

5,000 watts of pv panels today cost just 2,000 euros; support, wires, and inverter will run another 1 to 2 thousand.

that will give you electricity at no additional cost during sunlight, even in winter.
But batteries are still not worthwhile, the battery costs more per watt than EDP, even if the power you charge it with costs zero.

The next difficulty is how to store heat for use at night. You can get an "inertia" tank that will hold a lot of hot water. If it's inside your house, heat loss won't be lost (it will heat your house), and it works out ok.
If the tank is outside or in another building or the garage, it will probably lose too much heat to be worthwhile.

Batteries are (at this time) only worthwhile if you don't have grid access.

If you set the panels a little more upright, 55 degrees instead of 30-35 as they always do here, you'll get 10% more power during winter, but 10% less over the year.
You need much more in winter.
My hot water is from solar panels, 300 litre. Last winter I had use the backup esqentador on about 4 days in that time. Didn't install an immersion heater at all in the outside tank . So no leccy required for that.
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Old Aug 16th 2022, 4:38 pm
  #25  
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Default Re: Electricity Costs

Originally Posted by wellinever View Post
My hot water is from solar panels, 300 litre. Last winter I had use the backup esqentador on about 4 days in that time. Didn't install an immersion heater at all in the outside tank . So no leccy required for that.
Sorry to quiz but to clarify...
Do you have a solar water heater or solar panels that power an electric water heater?
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Old Aug 16th 2022, 6:14 pm
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Default Re: Electricity Costs

Originally Posted by Pilotabroad View Post
Sorry to quiz but to clarify...
Do you have a solar water heater or solar panels that power an electric water heater?
Its a normal 300ltr twin panel solar water collector on the roof, no electric at all.
Back up is Vulcano Sensor solar compatible esquentador.
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Old Sep 5th 2022, 6:50 am
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Default Re: Electricity Costs

Just had an update from British Gas for cost of electricity at my flat in UK, from Nov1. .....alarming if I was there in winter with econ 7 storage heating....
Day rate £0.82kwH
Night rate £0.41kwH
Daily charge £0.26

That is exactly 400% more than the current contract that expires in October.
Beggars belief
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Old Sep 5th 2022, 10:10 am
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Default Re: Electricity Costs

Originally Posted by wellinever View Post
Just had an update from British Gas for cost of electricity at my flat in UK, from Nov1. .....alarming if I was there in winter with econ 7 storage heating....
Day rate £0.82kwH
Night rate £0.41kwH
Daily charge £0.26

That is exactly 400% more than the current contract that expires in October.
Beggars belief
not sure how accurate this is




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Old Sep 5th 2022, 6:40 pm
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Default Re: Electricity Costs

Not sure what point that infographic is trying to make but domestic electricity in Germany has traditionaly been very expensive mainly due to goverment policy around support for renewables and very high taxation which this year is being reviewed to assist with the increasing costs of domestic electricity. Typical domestic customers pay something like 35 euro cent per kwh and this is moving to around 45 euro cent per kwh. The UK has a much lower historic starting base with the cost of electricity historically very low which is a fact that we seem to overlook, and if the trajectory of where the cost is moving is more in line with wholesale price of electricity then inevitably the % increase is going to be much higher than if the electricity was already relatively expensive... The people that are making money , and where the wrath should be directed (and bear in mind that energy is a global commodity that is bought and sold at market rate like tulip bulbs in the 1600s and if you look at a graph of the commody called TTF natural gas it is currently in a bubble due to speculators so you really should blame this group for the current high prices...) are the people physically pulling the energy out of the ground, that is the drilling operation part of shell, bp. Eg Centrica own British Gas in the UK, if you look at the accounts the Upstream part of the business is making the money due to higher global proces, not the part of the business that supplied domestic energy to retail customers, why do you think c30 energy supply companies went bust over the last 2 years or so....

The UK gets ~80% of its natural gas from Norway, only a few % from Russia and has done for a while, I am not sure if the infographic is trying to make some oblique reference to the current war in ukraine being some kind of cause of higher energy prices somewhere, or if it trying to say that somehow the providers of domestic energy to uk households suddenly got together and decided to be greedy starting in around 2022 hence our massive increases in prices (?) or the other way round, (which is incorrect anyway), but it is doing so in such a long tenouous way that it is lost on me...
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Old Sep 5th 2022, 7:49 pm
  #30  
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Default Re: Electricity Costs

I'm going to install a large air to water heat pump for heat and winter domestic hot water
that will cut my energy bill by about 50%.

Then I'll probably install solar PV and a singe thermal panel for summer hot water.

If a cheap battery ever becomes available, I could even disconnect from the grid; but I don't expect that to happen.
I have a big power supply for the workshop, 3x20A

The new heat pumps are really something, especially in the Portuguese climate. If you have the possibility to install one.

Meanwhile oil is $95 a barrel, the same price as before the Ukraine invasion sanctions.

Oil companies are greedy?
I'm shocked!
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