Vmlopes

Hi Guys and Galls

Bit of a different one here for you to consider:

My father in law passed away last month, he was a PT citizen but resided here in the UK for the last 50+ years, he has a property and bank account in PT, he has 4 children and a spouse living in England, no will in Portugal but has one in England.

What's the score with bank accounts now and the property, does it all automatically go to my mother in law, or does it follow the hereditary PT laws.

All help is gratefully appreciated.

GrahamF

Obviously, you need legal advice but, I suspect that unless his will contained the Brussels 4 clause to have his estate handled under UK law, normal Portuguese inheritance laws would apply to anything there but no idea who would have jurisdiction over any UK property and money.

Pulaski

I am not a lawyer, but I suspect that a will executed under English law executed by a resident of the UK would be applicable to assets held outside the UK unless contested by anyone who would be disadvantaged by that approach, compared to following Portugeuse law.

I would ask that you please report back with what you are told and how the handling of the estate pans out as many people here would be interested to get actual experience of applying an English will to a Portuguese estate.

Red Eric

Does the English will make mention of the Portuguese assets?

Vmlopes

No it does not

riv

The English will may not make specific mention of the Portuguese land and other assets, but it probably has a 'remainder' clause applicable to all property not specifically listed ? EG ' All property, real and personal not disposed of by the above provisions shall devolve to X ' ( and X might be a charity ) .

What has been happening to the Portuguese land your late relative owned ? Did he have it rented out ? Or was it one of these abandoned farms in the Alentejo or wherever ? Who paid the local taxes due each year ???
I would think it would be wise to contact the local Câmara. And a local Solicitor.

Vmlopes

His will in England has no provision for his property and bank accounts in Portugal, both of which are jointly named with his spouse. The overriding question is, are the accounts likely to be frozen as we have communicated to the bank about his death last month, my mother in-law who is in her 80's is not likely to want the property and will look at selling and transferring any money in the accounts back to England, is this her sole discretion or does she need the agreement of the siblings.

Vmlopes

The house is far from abandoned, it has been used as a holiday home over the years and all taxes are paid yearly including water, electric etc

riv

If a house in England is owned by a married couple 'jointly' , that is, they hold it 'as joint tenants' is the legal phrase, then on the death of one of the couple the survivor of the pair would become the sole owner. Children would not have any claim ( unless perhaps the Will provided otherwise ).

Portuguese Law might have a similar provision, but then again it may not, in which case the children would have a claim ( as well as the widow ) and they might all need to agree on a sale.

One is often told that the reason one sees abandoned properties with trees growing through the roof is precisely for this reason ' the relatives can't agree to sell ' .

So clearly a local Solicitador/a 's advice and intervention are needed. As mentioned, when you get an authoritative answer, from both an English and a Portuguese lawyer it would be helpful if you could return and spell it out.

riv

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The house is far from abandoned, it has been used as a holiday home over the years and all taxes are paid yearly including water, electric etc
##

I had a completely different impression from your first post : if the house was kept in use as a holiday home, with all taxes etc. being taken care of, so it would be in the owner's mind when making a will and asked to list all his assets, it is odd that there was no reference to it in the English will.

Vmlopes

Correct, but it not ??

Rambling archer

I would suggest you (or the executor named in the UK will - often a solicitor?) go over the details of the UK will to begin with to see if some provision there is made for "worldwide" or Portuguese assets (house and bank accounts). Also speak to a firm of lawyers to advise you about how that affects - or doesn't - the Portuguese ruling on distribution of assets per Portuguese inheritance laws - a Google search on "how does inheritance work in portugal" gives some interesting reading and in particular I wonder if this group could help you clarify the situation ... https://www.judicaregroup.com/site/c...e-in-portugal/
Bear in mind this is just from a search I made, so I have no knowledge of this particular firm but it certainly looks like you should be able to take advice from specialists in the UK ...
And there is some useful information here too ... https://www.lawyers-portugal.com/inh...aw-in-portugal
Specifically you need to look into inheritance from a non-resident of PT, to heirs who are also non-resident of PT, shared assets as in joint ownership of the property and bank accounts under a UK type of marriage (usually mentioned in the deeds of purchase of the property) and remember that inheritance tax (actually a stamp duty of 10%) has to be paid by the inheritors (but not the spouse?) before getting access to the inheritance!!!

Note that a further complication may be that the FIL was a citizen of Portugal, though non-resident ... not sure how that fits into the question!

GrahamF

I'm sorry but not able to advise you, all I know is what happened when my father in law and mother in law died. When father in law died, money in joint accounts automatically went to his wife and his remaining estate split between her and children. When mother in law died, her estate was divided between children without any inheritance tax. We actually bought out the other siblings so own the apartment ourselves, they had tax liability on their share of sale price..

Vmlopes

Was he a Portuguese citizen?

GrahamF

Yes, my wife and her family are all Portuguese.