Covid questions

Old Sep 26th 2021, 11:02 pm
  #16  
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Default Re: Covid questions

As I said before, you obviously know more of the background than I do.
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Old Sep 26th 2021, 11:16 pm
  #17  
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Default Re: Covid questions

Here some info for expats having problems :


The Portuguese covid vaccination program, which was initially running quite slowly, has sped up in recent months. If you’ve registered with the public healthcare system, have a número de utente, and you fall into the age category that’s currently being vaccinated, you should expect a phonecall inviting you to visit your nearest vaccination centre.

Unfortunately, if you moved to Portugal recently, you may not be registered on the public healthcare system. Over the past 12-24 months, many people who’ve moved to Portugal have been unable to get an appointment with SEF. Without that vital SEF appointment, they’ve not quite residents but stuck in limbo somewhere in between and, unfortunately, unable to register for public healthcare.

There are also those who, while officially resident, are not registered with the public healthcare system. Sometimes this is because they only ever planned to use the private system (Richard, this is probably why they have been there 4 years and never tried to get a número de utente before Covid), but other times it’s because – for various reasons – they’ve just been unsuccessful at registering with their local Centro de Saúde (healthcare centre).

Then there are those who are living in Portugal, but are not registered and are living under the radar somewhat.

Basically, there’s a gap and quite a few people have fallen into it.

What should you do?

If you don’t have a número de utente, there is a special form that you can fill out but, although many people have filled out this form, it’s rare to hear of anyone who’s been contacted.

That aside, the first thing you should do is fill out the form and ideally with a Portuguese phone number (due to costs, foreign phone numbers rarely get called in Portugal). It takes just a few minutes and it’s also available in English. Others may not have had success with the form, but it’s possible they’ll start contacting people soon.

It is also worth visiting your nearest Centro de Saúde (healthcare centre) and explaining the situation (with plenty of paperwork confirming your residency, of course). While it’s quite possible this won’t be successful, you may get lucky and find a sympathetic ear, especially as it’s well-known that there are currently huge backlogs in SEF and many other areas of Portuguese government.

If you are already resident but haven’t been able to get a número de utente in person, it’s worth trying over e-mail as many people have had success this way.

Finally, assuming your age group has already been called, you should try visiting your local vaccination centre during the “no reservation needed” hours.

That’s exactly what Anthony May did. Armed with every piece of paper that he could think of, he visited his local vaccination clinic and explained his situation. He was met with a sigh, but thankfully it was an understanding sigh. He was told he’d be contacted within a few days.

Less than 24 hours later he had an appointment. (So here you are; bypass the system and keep your fingers crossed!)
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Old Sep 27th 2021, 12:41 am
  #18  
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Default Re: Covid questions

Originally Posted by liveaboard View Post
Question 1; do I think a vaccination certificate will be required.
I do think so. But I don't know.

Question 2; can a non resident get a vaccination on Portugal

Yes. A friend of mine just did.
It took a couple of tries. He called and they said they would send an email to tell him where and when, but they never did.

He called again (a number I gave him) and a more helpful person at the health center arranged for his vaccination appointment.
There are 10 million people in Portugal.
Some are good, some not very good, some no good... Like everywhere
.
Thanks for your reply.

Did your non-resident friend manage to also get some sort of proof of vaccination certificate? I would also want that because you soon will not be able to fly to some non-EU countries (USA for one) without it.

Of course agree with you on your last point. There seems to be people on this forum who believe that a foreigner living in Portugal has no right to criticize the country. That's not a healthy way to live.

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Old Sep 27th 2021, 6:45 am
  #19  
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Default Re: Covid questions

Originally Posted by m2m2012 View Post
Me calling them monkeys bothers you does it? But when it comes to mindless bureaucracy that could possibly lead to the death of someone you have no comment to make? What a wonderful chap you are. I put it to you that most Portuguese would find such treatment of people completely unacceptable and reprehensible. See the quote above by Daniela who is Portuguese; she called them bastards.

I may have the wrong attitude for living in Portugal, but you have the wrong attitude for being a decent person. By not calling out bad behaviour or denying it (like you did in the other thread) you're in fact facilitating it.
As you have already pointed out, the vaccination program in Portugal is now very successful. For me it was straightforward and efficient. I don't doubt that there are many cases where people have found it less so, but I don't know enough about their situations to comment. Your third party anecdotal evidence doesn't convince me of major shortcomings in the system.

I admire your due diligence in researching your forthcoming move to Portugal, or Spain, or the USA, wherever you decide, but it seems to me you are searching for negatives a little too enthusiastically for your own peace of mind. I'm sure if I looked for negatives like "are all Australians argumentative" I would find plenty of internet chat supporting that hypothesis. Obviously I wouldn't believe them.

I don't think I'm blinkered in any way about how things work in Portugal, but I can only speak as I find. Perhaps I was just lucky, but despite some trepidation, I have found achieving Residency, Property purchase, Tax registration, Driving licence exchange, and Healthcare unproblematic.

I am genuinely concerned that your insistence that all bureaucracy is mindlessly carried out to thwart you will affect your mental health, and will not lead to a successful relocation. What is it that keeps you moving countries by the way? Do they all disappoint you? As for me being a decent person, I would never call a fellow human being a monkey, so yes, it did bother me.
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Old Sep 27th 2021, 9:01 am
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Default Re: Covid questions

m2m2012
Think your use of language is inappropritae considering yoy are wanting to enter a country and expecting them to welcome you with open arms. By all means criticise but try to be a bit sympathetic. Bear in mind you have been trying in other countries and have had no positive results at all.

Try getting any kind of treatment here in the UK at the moment before you comment on PT. Perhaps try there first.
Tried to contact our GP today and was 30 in the queue. Sent 2 emails...... still waiting for an answer.
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Old Sep 27th 2021, 11:03 am
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Default Re: Covid questions

Originally Posted by m2m2012 View Post
... Did your non-resident friend manage to also get some sort of proof of vaccination certificate? I would also want that because you soon will not be able to fly to some non-EU countries (USA for one) without it. ...
From https://covid19.min-saude.pt/wp-cont...-_007_2021.pdf

A emissão do Certificado pode ser, à data, solicitada por cidadãos nacionais e estrangeiros, com residência em Portugal e que sejam titulares do número de Utente do Serviço Nacional de Saúde.
and

A emissão do Certificado poderá ser alargada, quando as condições técnicas o permitirem, a cidadãos residentes em território nacional que não sejam titulares do número de utente do SNS, cidadãos de outros Estados-Membros e a cidadãos de países terceiros.
I suspect that obtaining your vaccination(s) as an (as yet) undocumented individual may be much easier than obtaining the certification, since the latter, of itself, provides no benefit to the general public or the state that vaccinates you. Once registered as a resident, with utente, getting your record updated and obtaining the EU Digital Certificate will be a relatively trivial matter.

https://www.sns24.gov.pt/certificado...-covid/#aceder
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Old Sep 27th 2021, 1:29 pm
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Default Re: Covid questions

Originally Posted by toots sweet View Post
m2m2012
Think your use of language is inappropritae considering yoy are wanting to enter a country and expecting them to welcome you with open arms. By all means criticise but try to be a bit sympathetic. Bear in mind you have been trying in other countries and have had no positive results at all.

Try getting any kind of treatment here in the UK at the moment before you comment on PT. Perhaps try there first.
Tried to contact our GP today and was 30 in the queue. Sent 2 emails...... still waiting for an answer.
Hold on, I used strong language to criticise the people who refused to help the man who was trying to vaccinate his elderly mother despite him having the exact paperwork he needed. A potential life or death situation. I think any fair minded person would consider how he was treated as deplorable.

As far as the vaccine for me in Portugal; I will try to get it but understand I may not be successful because of my circumstances (I'm not a resident), and because things don't always work as they should in Portugal. I have no expectation whatsoever of being welcomed with open arms; it's clear that when dealing with bureaucracy in Portugal you're not going to get that. There's a lot of things not great about Australia too...go the "Australia" forum on the website and you'll see a lot a negative comments.
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Old Sep 27th 2021, 1:52 pm
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Default Re: Covid questions

Originally Posted by m2m2012 View Post
I may not be successful because of my circumstances (I'm not a resident), and because things don't always work as they should in Portugal. I have no expectation whatsoever of being welcomed with open arms; it's clear that when dealing with bureaucracy in Portugal you're not going to get that.
Actually, I've found many people very helpful in navigating through/around the bureaucracy. Remember people mostly post their bad experiences, not their good ones. A few examples off the top of my head:

The lady in the citizen shop when we were trying to get our residency and NIF, who went "oh, sorry, you should have got the other one first" (can't even remember what order it was now) and as we started to leave went "but wait, let me see if I can fix it" (and she did)

Or the lady in the health centre when we were trying to get our SNS, who pointed to a notice saying that they only did that on a different day, at a different time. Then took pity on us and went, "but if you wait 10 minutes then I can do it for you now"

Speaking a little Portuguese (even badly) definitely helps, as does a polite approach. Our new parish council are amazingly helpful, but the district council are not. The lady usually on the desk there flatly refused to speak English to the person before me, but after listening to my mangled Portuguese for a few minutes she managed to both find a few words of English for me and turn around her computer screen and type some stuff into Google Translate for me

I shudder to think what the experience would be of a Portuguese person who didn't speak English trying to do this in the UK...
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Old Sep 27th 2021, 2:40 pm
  #24  
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Thumbs up Re: Covid questions

Originally Posted by Lelandy View Post
As you have already pointed out, the vaccination program in Portugal is now very successful. For me it was straightforward and efficient. I don't doubt that there are many cases where people have found it less so, but I don't know enough about their situations to comment. Your third party anecdotal evidence doesn't convince me of major shortcomings in the system.

I admire your due diligence in researching your forthcoming move to Portugal, or Spain, or the USA, wherever you decide, but it seems to me you are searching for negatives a little too enthusiastically for your own peace of mind. I'm sure if I looked for negatives like "are all Australians argumentative" I would find plenty of internet chat supporting that hypothesis. Obviously I wouldn't believe them.

I don't think I'm blinkered in any way about how things work in Portugal, but I can only speak as I find. Perhaps I was just lucky, but despite some trepidation, I have found achieving Residency, Property purchase, Tax registration, Driving licence exchange, and Healthcare unproblematic.

I am genuinely concerned that your insistence that all bureaucracy is mindlessly carried out to thwart you will affect your mental health, and will not lead to a successful relocation. What is it that keeps you moving countries by the way? Do they all disappoint you? As for me being a decent person, I would never call a fellow human being a monkey, so yes, it did bother me.
Now this is a good post, thank you.

Why am I interested in Portugal? The NHR program. My income is rental income from a non-EU country. The EU country I hold a passport of is not an option because they would tax me into poverty, as would most other EU countries because they tax gross income (not net income) because they don't allow deductions if the income is from abroad. Next problem...I have no medical cover in the countries I stay; not good! I have no medical cover in the EU country I'm a citizen of because I'm not a resident there and have never been. I have medical cover in Australia but I don't want to return to Australia.

Moving to Portugal and getting NHR and healthcare seems like a good solution.

Bureaucracy is not my main concern, but it is a concern; I wouldn't want to be treated as that guy was. He wrote: ...But for any of you who are wondering whether Portugal is right for you: heed my story. If you move here, on a long enough timeline, chances are this kind of tipping point may well happen for you too." I've been warned and would be a fool not to carefully consider this. I don't speak the language, and don't have any friends or relatives in Portugal to help me if I found myself in such a situation. I've read a number of such reports of people finding themselves is unpleasant situations; it's not just this one guy.

My biggest problem I fear will be finding a nice upgraded village house in a good location with the money I have. Moving to a "one horse town" village with no cafes or supermarkets that's 20 miles from anywhere is a bad idea...I fear in my price range that's what I'm looking at.

The barking dog and "no can do" attitude issues I've read about are also a concern.

Anyway, I will soon be there for a month and will see how it goes. I have a Plan B if things don't work out.

Last edited by m2m2012; Sep 27th 2021 at 3:09 pm.
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Old Sep 27th 2021, 3:13 pm
  #25  
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Default Re: Covid questions

Originally Posted by Alan PT View Post
Actually, I've found many people very helpful in navigating through/around the bureaucracy. Remember people mostly post their bad experiences, not their good ones. A few examples off the top of my head:

The lady in the citizen shop when we were trying to get our residency and NIF, who went "oh, sorry, you should have got the other one first" (can't even remember what order it was now) and as we started to leave went "but wait, let me see if I can fix it" (and she did)

Or the lady in the health centre when we were trying to get our SNS, who pointed to a notice saying that they only did that on a different day, at a different time. Then took pity on us and went, "but if you wait 10 minutes then I can do it for you now"

Speaking a little Portuguese (even badly) definitely helps, as does a polite approach. Our new parish council are amazingly helpful, but the district council are not. The lady usually on the desk there flatly refused to speak English to the person before me, but after listening to my mangled Portuguese for a few minutes she managed to both find a few words of English for me and turn around her computer screen and type some stuff into Google Translate for me

I shudder to think what the experience would be of a Portuguese person who didn't speak English trying to do this in the UK...
Thanks.
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Old Sep 27th 2021, 3:24 pm
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Default Re: Covid questions

Originally Posted by RichardHenshall View Post
From https://covid19.min-saude.pt/wp-cont...-_007_2021.pdf

and

I suspect that obtaining your vaccination(s) as an (as yet) undocumented individual may be much easier than obtaining the certification, since the latter, of itself, provides no benefit to the general public or the state that vaccinates you. Once registered as a resident, with utente, getting your record updated and obtaining the EU Digital Certificate will be a relatively trivial matter.

https://www.sns24.gov.pt/certificado...-covid/#aceder
Thanks. This is what I fear; they will give me the vaccination but not some sort of certificate.

I want the vaccine for 2 reasons; first, so I don't catch covid and die; second, so I can travel to the USA. I must get a certificate with the vaccination otherwise I will have to try elsewhere.

Last edited by m2m2012; Sep 27th 2021 at 3:27 pm.
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Old Sep 27th 2021, 4:43 pm
  #27  
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Default Re: Covid questions

Originally Posted by m2m2012 View Post
Me calling them monkeys bothers you does it? .
I find that totally offensive and it bothers me a lot.
Actually, I'd missed that you wrote it or I would never have answered you at all.
I think you're utter scum.

Just my opinion.
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Old Sep 27th 2021, 4:55 pm
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Default Re: Covid questions

Originally Posted by liveaboard View Post
I find that totally offensive and it bothers me a lot.
Actually, I'd missed that you wrote it or I would never have answered you at all.
I think you're utter scum.

Just my opinion.
I love you too.
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Old Sep 27th 2021, 6:25 pm
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Default Re: Covid questions

Just want to clarify, the term "monkey" applied to people has a strong association with racist abuse in the UK, so it will feel inappropriate and offensive to a lot of people from the UK for that reason
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Old Sep 27th 2021, 7:49 pm
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Default Re: Covid questions

Originally Posted by Alan PT View Post
Just want to clarify, the term "monkey" applied to people has a strong association with racist abuse in the UK, so it will feel inappropriate and offensive to a lot of people from the UK for that reason
I see. No racist idea was in my mind when I used that word. I used it to emphasise the inhumane/appalling nature of their behaviour.
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