British Expats

British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
-   Portugal (https://britishexpats.com/forum/portugal-89/)
-   -   Covid questions (https://britishexpats.com/forum/portugal-89/covid-questions-940469/)

m2m2012 Sep 3rd 2021 9:40 pm

Covid questions
 
Do you think Portugal will introduce rules requiring mandatory Covid tests or Covid vaccination pass to be able to take long distance trains and buses like France, Italy and Greece?

Can undocumented migrants in Portugal get vaccinated?

I an due to arrive in Portugal next month but have not been able to get vaccinated because I have been staying in countries that I am not a resident of, which means I don't have what's required to go online and book myself in for a vaccination.

I don't want to arrive in Portugal and not be able to leave Lisbon because I'm not vaccinated and also not be able to get a vaccination.

The below link says:
According to Regulation 002/2021, of 30/01/2021, from the Directorate-General for Health (DGS), the Covid-19 vaccination process requires prior contact with the citizen, to assess their eligibility and to schedule the procedure.

https://servicos.min-saude.pt/covid1...cao-nao-utente

Anyone know what this "eligibility" is?

m2m2012 Sep 26th 2021 4:47 am

Re: Covid questions
 
I found this comment in another place which answers my above question. The discussion was the pros and cons of living in Portugal :

May 21, 2021
"I’ll chime in.

We’ve been here for almost 4 years, but today, I can officially say I regret our decision to move here.

I have been trying to get my 79 year old mother vaccinated here. The government has officially declared that everyone, even if they are not legally here, can get the vaccine. My mother has completely legal residency here. I have been to the local health centre three times now, to try to get her ‘utente’ number, without which they will not vaccinate her. They keep asking me for something different that I do not have, each time I go there. They have even asked me for a document that I was able to explain to them made no sense, so they retracted that demand. Today I brought the document they told me was needed last time I was there: they barely looked at it, and asked me for something new.

Online, the health authority says you need only two things to get this ‘utente’ number: a residency card, and a tax number. I had both of these at the ready the very first time I went there. But in Portugal, there is no such things as standardisation across government offices. In your local offices, they can make up anything they want. You will get a different story about what documentation you should bring, from each new individual you ask. And their word will be law. And you’d better hope that person is there the next time you come in, or the ‘law’ will probably change. And if that person is there, you’d better hope they are in a good mood, like your face, and that they remember what they told you.

I knew this about Portugal before moving here: we starting having these sorts of experiences from the very moment we called the Portuguese consulate in Melbourne, Australia. And we were able to make our peace with it… until now. Because now, with the pandemic and the risk we take every time we get sent on a new wild goose chase to another office, to get another document that the health centre shouldn’t even be asking for, this is actually dangerous.

My mother is 79 – they have finished vaccinating her age group here months ago. I even signed her up on a web page for people to get vaccinated with no ‘utente’ number, but nobody ever contacted us. My mother has been in her 1 bedroom apartment, non-stop, for over one year now. Her mental health is suffering. I can put up with all kinds of stupidity, until it becomes dangerous.

We’re here now. We probably won’t move again. My mother is too old, and my partner and I are too tired. But for any of you who are wondering whether Portugal is right for you: heed my story. If you move here, on a long enough timeline, chances are this kind of tipping point may well happen for you too."

RichardHenshall Sep 26th 2021 3:39 pm

Re: Covid questions
 
While the background facts are unavailable, it seems to me that the person being quoted hasn't made much effort. He/she has been here 4 years and only made 3 attempts to register for a utente for his/her mother?

Alan PT Sep 26th 2021 5:58 pm

Re: Covid questions
 
I'd urge you to explore the possibility of vaccination before travel further - Portugal is not the only country willing to vaccinate everyone,regardless of status, to protect the health of the general population. However, if that proves impossible then it certainly is possible in Portugal. In some cases it takes people multiple applications/visits, in many others (like for us) it has been very efficient and trouble free

You can always call the SNS24 (health service helpline) for specific advice - dial 808 24 24 24 and choose option 9 for English

m2m2012 Sep 26th 2021 6:59 pm

Re: Covid questions
 

Originally Posted by RichardHenshall (Post 13055861)
While the background facts are unavailable, it seems to me that the person being quoted hasn't made much effort. He/she has been here 4 years and only made 3 attempts to register for a utente for his/her mother?

Richard, I'm surprised this was your reaction. Why should it take more than one attempt? Sounds like he had what's needed for the utente although I agree there could be more to this story than what's mentioned. A 79 year old catching covid could very well be a death sentence; the monkeys working at the local health centre should just give him the Goddamn utente number since he's showing residency card and a tax number even if he's missing something they believe is needed...he can bring it at a later stage...he wasn't asking for a gun license. And don't forget, under Portuguese law a utente isn't needed for a covid vaccination; illegal immigrants are entitled to a vaccination.






m2m2012 Sep 26th 2021 7:03 pm

Re: Covid questions
 

Originally Posted by Alan PT (Post 13055900)
I'd urge you to explore the possibility of vaccination before travel further - Portugal is not the only country willing to vaccinate everyone,regardless of status, to protect the health of the general population. However, if that proves impossible then it certainly is possible in Portugal. In some cases it takes people multiple applications/visits, in many others (like for us) it has been very efficient and trouble free

You can always call the SNS24 (health service helpline) for specific advice - dial 808 24 24 24 and choose option 9 for English

Thanks; I'll give it a try when I get to Portugal in a few weeks time.

m2m2012 Sep 26th 2021 7:18 pm

Re: Covid questions
 

Originally Posted by m2m2012 (Post 13055697)
I found this comment in another place which answers my above question. The discussion was the pros and cons of living in Portugal :

May 21, 2021
"I’ll chime in.

We’ve been here for almost 4 years, but today, I can officially say I regret our decision to move here.

I have been trying to get my 79 year old mother vaccinated here. The government has officially declared that everyone, even if they are not legally here, can get the vaccine. My mother has completely legal residency here. I have been to the local health centre three times now, to try to get her ‘utente’ number, without which they will not vaccinate her. They keep asking me for something different that I do not have, each time I go there. They have even asked me for a document that I was able to explain to them made no sense, so they retracted that demand. Today I brought the document they told me was needed last time I was there: they barely looked at it, and asked me for something new.

Online, the health authority says you need only two things to get this ‘utente’ number: a residency card, and a tax number. I had both of these at the ready the very first time I went there. But in Portugal, there is no such things as standardisation across government offices. In your local offices, they can make up anything they want. You will get a different story about what documentation you should bring, from each new individual you ask. And their word will be law. And you’d better hope that person is there the next time you come in, or the ‘law’ will probably change. And if that person is there, you’d better hope they are in a good mood, like your face, and that they remember what they told you.

I knew this about Portugal before moving here: we starting having these sorts of experiences from the very moment we called the Portuguese consulate in Melbourne, Australia. And we were able to make our peace with it… until now. Because now, with the pandemic and the risk we take every time we get sent on a new wild goose chase to another office, to get another document that the health centre shouldn’t even be asking for, this is actually dangerous.

My mother is 79 – they have finished vaccinating her age group here months ago. I even signed her up on a web page for people to get vaccinated with no ‘utente’ number, but nobody ever contacted us. My mother has been in her 1 bedroom apartment, non-stop, for over one year now. Her mental health is suffering. I can put up with all kinds of stupidity, until it becomes dangerous.

We’re here now. We probably won’t move again. My mother is too old, and my partner and I are too tired. But for any of you who are wondering whether Portugal is right for you: heed my story. If you move here, on a long enough timeline, chances are this kind of tipping point may well happen for you too."

This was one of the replies to the above post:

Daniela
May 23, 2021 at 12:04 am

"Hi there, first of all my sincere apologies not only as a portuguese native but as someone who lived her last 10 years in developed countries such Netherlands, Belgium and UK and just return to be close to my own family. I am really sorry that you and your mother are going through all that, but as a portuguese and as a human being I am making myself available to help. Let me know what clinique you re using and some more details so I can talk with those bastards."

Lelandy Sep 26th 2021 8:57 pm

Re: Covid questions
 
"the monkeys working at the local health centre "

You really want to reconsider coming here with that attitude

liveaboard Sep 26th 2021 9:26 pm

Re: Covid questions
 
Question 1; do I think a vaccination certificate will be required.
I do think so. But I don't know.

Question 2; can a non resident get a vaccination on Portugal

Yes. A friend of mine just did.
It took a couple of tries. He called and they said they would send an email to tell him where and when, but they never did.

He called again (a number I gave him) and a more helpful person at the health center arranged for his vaccination appointment.
There are 10 million people in Portugal.
Some are good, some not very good, some no good... Like everywhere.


RichardHenshall Sep 26th 2021 10:05 pm

Re: Covid questions
 

Originally Posted by m2m2012 (Post 13055923)
Richard, I'm surprised this was your reaction. Why should it take more than one attempt? Sounds like he had what's needed for the utente although I agree there could be more to this story than what's mentioned. A 79 year old catching covid could very well be a death sentence; the monkeys working at the local health centre should just give him the Goddamn utente number since he's showing residency card and a tax number even if he's missing something they believe is needed...he can bring it at a later stage...he wasn't asking for a gun license. And don't forget, under Portuguese law a utente isn't needed for a covid vaccination; illegal immigrants are entitled to a vaccination.

I don't know, perhaps the addresses on the documents weren't up-to-date and/or weren't in the relevant catchment area for that particular health centre, so additional evidence such as an atestado was required? If the mother was from another EU country an S1 from the country paying her pension would be required. I'm not saying that it should take repeated attempts but if it does and it's an important matter some extra effort may be required. I don't see 3 attempts in 4 years as demonstrating the commitment needed. 3 attempts every week for 4 years however ...

I realise that things have moved on, vaccination-wise, since May but if I was responsible for getting my 79-year old mother vaccinated I'd like to think I would try harder than just filling in a webform and waiting.

m2m2012 Sep 26th 2021 10:05 pm

Re: Covid questions
 

Originally Posted by Lelandy (Post 13055953)
"the monkeys working at the local health centre "

You really want to reconsider coming here with that attitude

Me calling them monkeys bothers you does it? But when it comes to mindless bureaucracy that could possibly lead to the death of someone you have no comment to make? What a wonderful chap you are. I put it to you that most Portuguese would find such treatment of people completely unacceptable and reprehensible. See the quote above by Daniela who is Portuguese; she called them bastards.

I may have the wrong attitude for living in Portugal, but you have the wrong attitude for being a decent person. By not calling out bad behaviour or denying it (like you did in the other thread) you're in fact facilitating it.

m2m2012 Sep 26th 2021 10:30 pm

Re: Covid questions
 

Originally Posted by RichardHenshall (Post 13055965)
I don't know, perhaps the addresses on the documents weren't up-to-date and/or weren't in the relevant catchment area for that particular health centre, so additional evidence such as an atestado was required? If the mother was from another EU country an S1 from the country paying her pension would be required. I'm not saying that it should take repeated attempts but if it does and it's an important matter some extra effort may be required. I don't see 3 attempts in 4 years as demonstrating the commitment needed. 3 attempts every week for 4 years however ...

I realise that things have moved on, vaccination-wise, since May but if I was responsible for getting my 79-year old mother vaccinated I'd like to think I would try harder than just filling in a webform and waiting.

Richard, the problem is this:

"They keep asking me for something different that I do not have, each time I go there. They have even asked me for a document that I was able to explain to them made no sense, so they retracted that demand. Today I brought the document they told me was needed last time I was there: they barely looked at it, and asked me for something new."

In other words the goalposts keep moving. He gets the papers he's asked for but when he returns someone different asks for something new. The longer it goes on the longer the old woman will remain unvaccinated. When you also add the fact that illegal immigrants with no papers whatsoever can get the jab it's obscene what's been done to him.

RichardHenshall Sep 26th 2021 10:55 pm

Re: Covid questions
 

Originally Posted by m2m2012 (Post 13055984)
... In other words the goalposts keep moving. ...

Based on an assumed minimum year passing between attempts, I'm not surprised. Lots of things have impacted Portuguese bureaucracy in the last few years; Covid and Brexit to name a couple. You obviously know this individual's circumstances better than I do so may feel you're right to hold your opinion. Based on what I've read, I've expressed an opinion and my reasons for considering it valid.

m2m2012 Sep 26th 2021 11:22 pm

Re: Covid questions
 

Originally Posted by RichardHenshall (Post 13055993)
Based on an assumed minimum year passing between attempts, I'm not surprised. Lots of things have impacted Portuguese bureaucracy in the last few years; Covid and Brexit to name a couple. You obviously know this individual's circumstances better than I do so may feel you're right to hold your opinion. Based on what I've read, I've expressed an opinion and my reasons for considering it valid.

You've misunderstood what's written. I think if you read what he wrote carefully, the 3 attempts to receive the utente number were all made in quick succession earlier this year. Vaccines only became available this year in Portugal.

m2m2012 Sep 26th 2021 11:36 pm

Re: Covid questions
 
Here are the rules Richard, he had everything he needed:

To get a número de utente you normally visit your local centro de saúde with the following documents:
  • Your passport or ID (They had this)
  • NIF (Numero de Identificação Fiscal) (They had this)
  • Residency documents (e.g. CRUE or temporary residency permit) (They had this)
  • Social security card (if you’re working) (not working so no needed)
  • S1 form (or equivalent) if you receive a pension from another EU country (They from Australia so no S1 form needed)


All times are GMT. The time now is 7:28 pm.

Powered by vBulletin: ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.