CAROL ELIZABETH

We are thinking of building our own place and have seen land. It has lapsed plans so we would need to source an architect to draw up and submit to the Camara for us and then find builders. Anyone with experience of this? We know the area well as we have an apartment there but this is outside our comfort zone.

mikelincs

Check everything, then do it again, then get a solicitor to do it. Please be very, very careful about buying land without due diligence, make sure that the reason the plans lapsed were not that they couldn't get a building licence, make sure you CAN get a building licence for the land and that, if you can, the plans are suitable for the licence. Too many people have had their fingers burnt buy the idea of having your own house built, then finding it has to be demolished because of some infraction of the regulations, there has to be a reason that the original build didn't happen.

macliam

I agree ... don't underestimate the time it can take to get a license and the costs involved. Any previous, lapsed "plans" are merely window-dressing, they have no value and do not mean that you will be able to renew them - let alone amend them. The Camara may have taken subsequent decisions that mean it is no longer a viable plot or there may be other physical constraints. Do NOT presume that the planning process here is any easier than in the UK, there is more bureaucracy and it carries greater costs.

As has been said, you first need to find a good solicitor who can ensure that the plot is viable for building and that the people selling are OK. if the plot has been for sale for any length of time, you need to ask yourself why someone local hasn't bought it.

Then, for planning costs, up here I was advised to budget 10% of build costs for the project plans - and that's a lot of money to pay out for something that is not a "given". You will need to find an architect of good repute who has worked with the local Camara and has contacts - at least then they should be able to get an early heads-up on the likelihood of a successful submission and limit any wasted funds if it's a wild-goose chase.

There are VERY specific requirements on plans, e.g. there is a minimum height for the wall around any terrace and materials and colours may be restricted. Plans submitted must cover all services and any impact on neighbours, etc. Such requirements will vary from Camara to Camara.

If your plans are then approved, you can arrange your builder and get a license issued. The license will require documents from the builder and details of his insurance cover, etc. Do NOT start anything before you have the full license because as "Dono da Obra" you, not the builder, will be responsible and liable to steep fines for any infringements - plus you could be required to put everything back as it was....

Makes you wonder how anything gets built!

Good luck.

CAROL ELIZABETH

Thanks for all the solid advice. We haven't yet gone ahead but we're still thinking about it . There are two options that we have to consider . One is a plot that is a bank repossession with lapsed plans on it . The second option is to buy a plot in a designated area where lots of houses are being built and there is already an agreed design or range of designs and builder allocated . The second option is much more expensive but would give us what we want and we can buy the plot and then wait to build still with this option . We shouldn't have the additional architectural costs with the second option but we would still need to have both checked out by our solicitor . Keeping an open mind at the moment .

liveaboard

I would recommend you buy an existing house; consider the value of the time [financial and personal] it will take to build, the uncertainties, the stress.

Even if what you can find isn't exactly what you want; remember that planning rules probably won't let you build what you want either.

An existing house with habitation license and services connected can be renovated without waiting for permits. It's FAR easier, faster, and very likely considerably cheaper even if you only keep the roof an outer walls.

There's a large amount of housing stock on the market. As you already know, location is the most important factor. Get a legal house in a place you want to live, then turn it into the house you want to live in.

MrBife

I agree wholeheartedly and firmly believe anyone prepared to put themselves through literally years of negotiation with the authorities is bonkers. Plenty of 'doer-uppers' on the market right now and if you have the imagination to design and build you certainly have the skills required to do a tasteful refurb.

macliam

I agree - getting a license is a nightmare as is getting reliable and reasonable builders. The planning system can tie you down even further than in the UK, with rules as to the minimum height of this, the maximum width of that - let alone how and where pipes and cables go.

Good Luck!

EMR

Getting a license is not a nightmare if you follow the rules.
Too often it's the fault of the buyer who does not understand the various classifications of land, size of permissable building etc.
Forget the UK you are now in Portugal.

macliam

Which rules? My architect submitted the plans. Several weeks later the Camara demanded further paperwork that was irrelevant (my house has no neighbours, yet they required a completed form saying "there are no neighbours" in triplicate and signed by the architect....). Then it was held up by Easter and June feriados, then it stretched to August (no chance!) and finally I got approval in September.

My architect also submitted copies of paperwork that had been accepted everywhere else, but this Camara demanded originals (6 weeks later). So, unfortunately, as with so much else, the rules depend on whoever is applying them.....

EMR

Then your Architect was at fault for not knowing how the local Camara worked.
Portugal is not the UK, one camara operates differently from another.
We bought a plot, wanted the plans altered not dramatically but in effect back to stage one, back in the queue for approval .
We were taken to the camara and shown how their system worked, where our project was in the system, when it would be submitted for approval etc.
That is how it is.

CAROL ELIZABETH

Seems mixed views. We dont plan to build where nothing has been agreed earlier. One of the sires already has houses going up. The other a lapsed design which we would be happy to replicate. It ought not to be hard.