Lou71

Apologies if this has been discussed before but I can't find any info on it. Our solicitor was reading the actual legislation and couldn't find an answer. But it might come to pass....

So - does anyone know what happens if your car fails the inspection more than twice? I ask because it failed in early September and the date limit for a re-test was the same date the following month, i.e. 30 days. Presented the car again before the date limit and it failed again, this time the red sheet has a date which is only 1 week beyond the original date limit. If it fails again, then what... 1 week, 1 day, low-loader to the garage??? It is only one very minor failure point but a fail is a fail.

Red Eric

You've been given 15 days from the date of the re-inspection to have it rectified.

If it fails again I think you'll get another 15 from that date (not sure on that, though - seems to be conflicting info about. If not, you might ned to re-present for the full inspection).

You've said it's only minor but make sure you read the certificate carefully to ensure there are no conditions attached to circulation (for example, whether you are allowed to carry a passenger). The fail categories go from Grau 1 to 3, 1 being the lowest. You wouldn't need to re-present a vehicle for an inspection with fewer than 5 Grau 1 failures, so presumably there was either something more serious or you had more than 5 minor problems to start with, only one of which is still outstanding?

liveaboard

Most people drive their car to he test station; if the GNR doesn't catch you, you're golden.
Legally, the only solution is a tow company if your out of date.

Lou71

Thanks for that, it makes sense that another 15 days might be given, but I doubt that they will allow fail/re-test to go on ad infinitum so a full test at some point seems likely.

The first fail was on two Tipo 2 issues and the red sheet stipulated no passengers and no cargo, but circulation permitted until the date 30 days later given.

The second fail was one Tipo 2, the same one as one of those on the previous test and the red sheet gave a date to re-test by but no stipulations this time.

I consider it minor because it is 0.05% too much CO on idle so everything else tested i.e. tyres, brakes, suspension, structure, seatbelts, lights, etc. were fine, but nonetheless it is a Tipo 2 fail. The idea of multiple re-tests is that I am eliminating issues one by one before getting to the expensive bits, i.e. new Lambdas or new catalytic converter. The cat was new 6 years ago but could be the problem, the annual mileage is low and not particularly long distance which could ironically be the problem for the cat. A bottle of cat cleaner and a blast down the motorway in third gear is the next 'repair' procedure and then we'll see...

The GNR were parked outside the test station when I turned up last time, but then I was still in date and they were busy going through someone else's papers...

I guessed that a tow truck once out of date is the only safe/legal option.

liveaboard

The fine if they catch you is 250; tow truck cost probably around 200, but you should ask.
Have you changed the oil in the car? that will usually do the trick if the oil is old and the margin is small.
I usually change the oil before inspection.
Maybe there's a private shop with a CO machine somewhere so you can see how you're doing before going to the test center.

Lou71

Tow truck cost depends on the distance I suppose, plus potential waiting time if you want to see if you have to be taken back again. I did the test at CIMA Faro which was not the nearest or most convenient place but the only one I could get a suitable appointment at. Once failed, you are stuck with going back to the same test centre for re-tests until OK.

Prior to the first test I just used some petrol treatment; top end, valves, injector clean etc.

Prior to the second test I changed the oil although it was not quite up to the service interval yet, oil filter, air filter, new spark plugs and another bottle of petrol treatment but a better make this time.

Next one - Cat cleaner, then if no good it's expensive repairs... Lambdas are €175 ea. + VAT + labour, new cat is €600 so it's been a process of elimination so far.

santaanita

i see most on here are talking about making appointments,i have done three over the last month all with no appointments just rocked up no problems never made a appointment in 15 years

morro

I had the same problem a few years ago with an old car. I tried everything, it even passed at the local garage! Eventually I googled the problem and was advised to turn the mixture down! More air less fuel just for the test! Turn it back to normal right after the test. Get the engine hot and keep it running throughout the test. I did this every year and no problems after.

liveaboard

I never had an appointment either, but with the disease and all I asked for one last time.
2 months they said, or just come in and wait like usual.
I have to take my other car next week. Wish me luck, it's 20 years old.

175 for a Lambda sensor??
Try auto-doc.pt [which is actually German].
On most cars it takes just minutes to change.
The catalytic converter can be hard, it depends how rusty things are down there.
I do my own repairs at home.

Lou71

Maybe you're somewhere quiet... we were advised to get appointments and only went to Faro because there were none available nearer, though there were plenty of appointments available in Faro.

Yes it's basically too much fuel/too little air with a new air filter often the obvious first fix. Trouble is, everything is electronic and the engine computer decides the mixture, hence sensors etc. being a potential issue, giving the computer incorrect data. Oh for the days when I could just twiddle a screw on the carburettor!

The virus is the main reason for appointments being advised I think - in fact we have been waiting an age for appointments for everything this year, the MOT being the quickest thing to book in fact!

I did take the car somewhere for an independent emissions test and advice on the difficult bits and they recommended spending no more money on it! I usually do all my own repairs but things are difficult these days, I've had enough trouble changing the air conditioning condenser, half the car needed to come apart. I'll have a look at auto-doc and see if I can do the so-called expensive things myself, thanks for the recommendation - the cat shouldn't be too hard as it's only been on there since 2014 but the car is 25 years old so I sympathise with your plight and wish you good luck! My other car is 42 years old but that's not even going to come to Portugal, that would be a waste of it being tax & MOT exempt in the UK and avoiding all this messing about, plus I can fix it myself...

liveaboard

I have a 22 year old Mercedes petrol coupe; packed full of electronics, and that's what makes it a cheap car today.
I bought a brand specific computer modulator, that connects the car to a laptop, so I can check all of the electronic systems.
It cost a couple of hundred Euros, quite a lot for maintenance of one car. But it's already paid for.
It's not magic; it tells you that one or another component isn't working, but sometimes that's due to another fault. Still, between the computer and online help forums, I've been able to get rid of the faults.
I use a mix of new and second hand parts, depending on the problem.
I keep it as a second car. It's really fun to drive but the petrol cost can be painful.

Have you ever wondered why you can get an appointment at one test station while others in the area are so busy?
Word gets around.
Some are more strict than others.
Like restaurants, crowded is a sign that the service is good.

Auto-doc is huge, they have websites for every country in Europe [and UK]. You can also use the UK site to search for your parts in English, then put the resulting part number into the PT site.
They're cheaper for sure, but delivery takes 7-10 days.
If you want to buy parts over the counter locally, go to Sandiastand, they're the main parts supplier for garages here. They have a lot in stock and when they don't, they get it fast.
Prices are ok, not as cheap as autodoc.
They have shops all over, look it up and find one nearby.
Garages call on the phone and get door to door delivery next day, we punters have to go in and buy at the counter.

Lou71

Thanks, that's really helpful information. I'll check out Auto-doc and Sandiastand for sure.

Where did you get the computer modulator from? That would be a useful tool and as you say likely to pay for itself quickly. With all these electronic parts and systems, if something goes wrong but you can't see what it is, something you can plug into the car and which will communicate with a computer to give you the information is the only way other than taking it to a garage. Quite old cars are now in the category of having a lot of electronics, which makes them cheap because of the hassle when things go wrong or risk of things going wrong due to age...

liveaboard

I found it on ebay, it was being sold by the Belgian company that made it [carsoft].

At some point the engine systems can be read by the obd readers, but not the other systems [mainly, airbags].
Newer cars are OBD 32 compliant [by law], so you can use any obd reader to see the faults.
Older cars use dedicated systems, each different. The electronics of my year 2000 Mitsubishi can only be serviced by the dealer.
The modulator I got will only connect to Mercedes, they have ones for BMW too.
You need to find a group or forum specific to your car; popular models usually have that.
Facebook is a pain because the information posted is almost impossible to find after a few days, but it's popular anyway.
I'm on 2 groups for my mercedes W208, a PT one and an international one; I buy parts from members and info has been pretty good.
But since faceboof archives are so hard to find, the same questions get asked every week.

I also found an electronic repair manual online; a monsterous ponderous program with 60gb of files that includes every Mercedes until 2012 or something, for 15 euros.
Seller disappeared, account canceled. But it works.
You just have to hunt around, it's all out there.

Lou71

Thanks, very interesting. I'll have a hunt around online, usually the best thing to do as you have found. The car is a mainstream make so I ought to be able to find a compatible reader but I am wondering if it might have to retire gracefully, currently broken down and in the care of a mechanic because I couldn't drive it any further, having already broken down and been repaired by the dealer last week but problems still evident. It has always been 99% reliable until now, I've only broken down once before in it and that was the starter motor. This time I've no idea, something electronic has gone intermittent.

The local dealer said they would not recommend spending any more money on it so we'll have to see. Maybe my efforts at getting it to comply with the emissions regulations have been too much for it...

liveaboard

If you need to take a low value older car to the dealer for service, it won't be long before the charges overtake the value of the vehicle.

Sorry for your loss; on the bright side, you get to go car shopping.