Ultramarine

If I buy ruins from a private seller, so no property agent involved, what checks I should make and how the ownership is registered? Is there any step-by-step instruction similar to this https://www.propertyinvestmentsuk.co...-conveyancing/ ?
It appears to be unpractical to hire a lawyer paying them nearly half the price of the property in question.

MrBife

The seller pays the agent's fees and they are not charged to you in addition to the selling price. Even if a selling agent is not involved the seller may or may not reduce their selling price.

I would still suggest using a lawyer. A lawyer has access to information at the land registry that you don't, they will be able to advise whether there is clear title, whether there are loans or liens against the property, what the classification of the land is, and whether you need to work with CCDR or other agencies to get permission to develop.

Lawyer costs are usually negotiable but at worst shouldn't be more than a couple of thousand euro, Even if you are only paying €4000 for your land and ruin (unlikely? it is not a cost I would personally try to avoid.

Moses2013

It wouldn't matter if you are buying from an agent or private person and the same checks are required if you want peace of mind. Sure, you can check all paperwork yourself but even a small sentence can have a different meaning and unless you are a legal expert and know local regulations, it's not a risk I would take. It's a bit like buying land and wanting to build, but you are not prepared to pay for a geotechnical study. Use an experienced lawyer and they usually only charge a small fee, so if the first checks show there are problems you won't be paying full price.

Ultramarine

That's exactly the price in question. So should I pay €2000 of so to a lawyer in this case?

macliam

If you think you are competent to ensure that there are no issues with the land in question, that the seller is able to sell (Portuguese inheritance laws are strict), that the neighbours have been offered first refusal if there is land involved, that there are no liens on the property and that it is properly registered and has not been illegally subdivided, etc. then go ahead. Otherwise factor in the buying costs as part of the price (oh - and don't forget you will need to pay Government taxes and have the property transferred to your name).

The hairs on my neck stand up when you speak about "a ruin". If your thoughts are to renovate this then you should also check that such a plan is viable, that the ruin is registered as a domestic and not an agricultural building and what it will cost to have any services supplied. You will also need to get a licence from the local Camara - and that will involve paying an architect, etc. If you check back through this forum, you will find a wealth of information on the likely pitfalls of such a plan.

At the end of the day, you may feel happy to risk €4k, but be aware that you could end up paying out a great deal more than that.....

Shanorme

I completely agree with everyone on this thread. it wouldn't matter if that land cost €1, I'd still get a lawyer. The last bit of land we bought actually had 10 vendor signatures on it!

Unless, you are completely fluent in Portuguese, it's a non starter anyway. Skimp on the lawyer and you might have much bigger problems down the road.

dingg

Would you be prepared or even able to buy a property in your country of origin without employing a lawyer in some form or other?

J00ls

The hairs stood up on the back of my neck at the suggestion that anyone might contemplate buying property without a lawyer. Scary. Also, do you realise that planning permission can take years to obtain - and usually at least a year to prepare (by an Architect) and submit (through your lawyer). There are also strange and weird rules regarding ruins. Don't think for one moment that you can make rooms bigger or get permission to extend - much - or at all. What about the boundaries? To be safe you will need to walk the boundaries with your Surveyor. Get Lawyered up!

coleio

There are Lawyers that may also be people, not all are the spawn of Satan. Find a local one and go talk to them, outline what you wish to do and ask for the basic costs and time scale. Why would you even think of doing it any other way then going direct and getting real information before making any decision rather than wibbling on some forum ?

liveaboard

Nothing wrong with wibbling (whatever that is).
Yes, you still need a lawyer, because it's unlikely that the ruin will have just 1 owner. There are likely sibblings or children of siblings, or cousins, or liens, who knows?
If any claims are lodged after the sale, it can all unravel; and that could be after years of work and many thousands have been invested.

A ruin can ruin you.

Moses2013

If one is worried about €2000, probably best to forget the idea in general. The escudo is long gone and with globalization nothing is really a bargain anymore, everyone wants to make money. You get what you pay for and expect the €2000 to be gone in an instant during a renovation project.

ouriquejan

A very good friend of ours bought a plot of land locked land, 22 years ago. No ruin on it.

Took him three years just to get planning permission, and then another 10 years to actually get permission and then build the house. And the local town hall still quibbled about what he was doing.

In saying that, he's more than happy, living in he middle of his 10 acres.

He thinks he only got permission because it was a 10 acre field.

ouriquejan

I should add that there were ten interested parties, two they couldn't get hold of and his (local) solicitor had heck of a job with it all.

Ultramarine

I already learned that this is easy to check in local Financas and it's free. Another check, for debts, is done free in the Palácio da Justiça.

macliam

Off you go then, it's your cash.