Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Europe > Portugal
Reload this Page >

Buying Land in Portugal - Experiences

Buying Land in Portugal - Experiences

Old Feb 4th 2020, 7:54 pm
  #1  
BE Enthusiast
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 946
sherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond repute
Default Buying Land in Portugal - Experiences

I'm looking at buying a small piece of land in the Alentejo in a semi-rural location (edge of small village, not too isolated so that utilities can be 'easily' connected). The idea would be to eventually build a small vacation cabin on it at some point in the future.

Can anyone who has purchased land recently give me an overview of the process, what to watch out for etc, pitfalls and challenges? What do I need to be careful with regarding planning permission/making sure the building fits with the local environment etc. Language will not an issue as my OH is a native.

I am obviously only looking at land that has permission to build on it. Some of this land seems to come with water, electricity, sewer connections but most does not. Has anyone connected utilities? It is a huge expense? As noted I will not be buying land in the middle of nowhere so there should be connections nearby.

Finally, is there any issue with building what would probably deemed as a temporary structure (shipping container, caravan, yurt, tiny house etc)?

sherbert is offline  
Old Feb 5th 2020, 6:23 am
  #2  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Mar 2013
Location: central Portugal
Posts: 4,111
mfesharne has a reputation beyond reputemfesharne has a reputation beyond reputemfesharne has a reputation beyond reputemfesharne has a reputation beyond reputemfesharne has a reputation beyond reputemfesharne has a reputation beyond reputemfesharne has a reputation beyond reputemfesharne has a reputation beyond reputemfesharne has a reputation beyond reputemfesharne has a reputation beyond reputemfesharne has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Buying Land in Portugal - Experiences

Land here falls under different designations that dictate what you can/cannot do on it so (for example) Rustico is agricultural so you can grow crops, have livestock & in some cases build (subject to at least some kind of permission) build agricultural buildings & the oft touted idea that moveable buildings, buildings without footings, non permanent structures etc can be put on Rustico land (or similar) don't need any kind of permission is BS but it is commonly peddled BS by some sellers & agents etc & Govt are currently cracking down on such properties.

The ONLY way you can be 110% absolutely sure is to visit the appropriate Camara & ask the planning officer about what you can/connot do on that exact piece of land.

So don't be fooled.
mfesharne is offline  
Old Feb 5th 2020, 7:26 am
  #3  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,148
Moses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Buying Land in Portugal - Experiences

Originally Posted by sherbert
I'm looking at buying a small piece of land in the Alentejo in a semi-rural location (edge of small village, not too isolated so that utilities can be 'easily' connected). The idea would be to eventually build a small vacation cabin on it at some point in the future.

Can anyone who has purchased land recently give me an overview of the process, what to watch out for etc, pitfalls and challenges? What do I need to be careful with regarding planning permission/making sure the building fits with the local environment etc. Language will not an issue as my OH is a native.

I am obviously only looking at land that has permission to build on it. Some of this land seems to come with water, electricity, sewer connections but most does not. Has anyone connected utilities? It is a huge expense? As noted I will not be buying land in the middle of nowhere so there should be connections nearby.

Finally, is there any issue with building what would probably deemed as a temporary structure (shipping container, caravan, yurt, tiny house etc)?
Can only agree with mfesharne. Although we ended up buying in Spain, I was also looking at land in Portugal at the time and the process is very similar. Your best bet is always to ask local town hall planning officer and get it confirmed. As we weren't in the country, our lawyer did this for us and we got a report to see what the standard requirements are. Urbano land has the advantage of being connected/close to connections but even then there is no guarantee you can build what you have in mind. In our area it used to be no problem to build smaller homes but now tiny homes are illegal. Mobile homes are allowed in some areas but if it's a temporary structure you can't live in it etc. Now all the buildings need a permanent concrete foundation, but your architect should help you with this too. Once you know the regulations of the land, you would need to submit an Architects Project (including Topography) and a geotechnical study is recommended, even if it's only a small vacation cabin.
Moses2013 is offline  
Old Feb 5th 2020, 8:31 am
  #4  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,683
wellinever has a reputation beyond reputewellinever has a reputation beyond reputewellinever has a reputation beyond reputewellinever has a reputation beyond reputewellinever has a reputation beyond reputewellinever has a reputation beyond reputewellinever has a reputation beyond reputewellinever has a reputation beyond reputewellinever has a reputation beyond reputewellinever has a reputation beyond reputewellinever has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Buying Land in Portugal - Experiences

100% agree. Local council is a must if land is not urban with approval to build. You can then atlk with council to see exactly what is allowed remember you can build smaller than mentioned and you can change from house to bungalow, but must respect the build area (footprint) is not increased.
Don`t bother with agric/rustic land unless there is an existing building/ruin. I believe you can add 10% in area to a ruin.
Only `urban` land is land for building and would be sold as such, at much higher price. Electricity should then either be available or close, gas can be gas bottles no problem, sewer can be
There are prefab houses for sale (and very nice too) but you would need to talk to the local planners at the council to see if allowed. It is not much, if any, cheaper than traditional build and more difficult to sell at later date.
Normal houses are built using reinforced concrete pillars and beams infilled with bricks, and that is what is preferred by planners.
Building cost (traditonal concrete) is between €800- €1000/m2, +VAT (23%) depending on level of finishings, but could be a bit cheaper in the Alentejo. Builders must have a licence issued by the council, so you cannot just find `joeblogs` to build for you. Architect and engineer needed for the project which will set you back a few thousand €. Always make sure you get it all right first time, any alterations made to the exterior design (however small) after the project is approved and license issued will cost you lots in both cost and time.
At the end of construction a Habitation Licence must be given by the council and they check that the house is as the project so be warned.
Also many certifications (energy/comms ITED, electricity,/gas (if included on project), acoustic, will be your responsibility to pay for as extra, allow €1000, as well as needing Solar water heating at about €2000.
Portuguese speaking big help, but always get everything in writing before committing.
Time scale depending on how busy the council planners are will take 2-3 years from start to before you can live in it, unless you can find a builder that actually works more than 2 days a week on your project...big lack of builders in Portugal at the moment, so they all have 4 or 5 houses on the go and are short of workers, same with electricians etc. .
All in all, pretty challenging, but rewarding in the end. Keep all receipts, which must be against your name and NIF, as well as the property address and VAT.
wellinever is offline  
Old Feb 6th 2020, 5:41 pm
  #5  
BE Enthusiast
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 946
sherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Buying Land in Portugal - Experiences

Thanks all for this - super informative!

To clarify, I *do not* intend to buy rustico land and put a temporary structure on it. I intend to buy urbano land in a rural-ish location (that has planning permission) and put what might be considered by some to be a temporary structure on it (such as a converted shipping container home, although a shipping container would need to be placed on concrete foundations anyway so would then likely be considered permanent). I don't intend to live in it permanently: it would be used as a holiday home.

@wellinever, why are tiny houses banned? Where do you live? I can understand them being banned to stop unscrupulous landlords etc but as a holiday cabin?

So I can find out whether land has been designated for building on at the Camara but what about planning laws? e.g. in England you can build on your own property *without* needing any planning permission as long as the building is no more than 2.5 metres high and is a certain distance from the perimeter of the property. In the US, if a structure is on wheels, it does not have to conform to building code (i.e. that the rooms need to be a minimum size etc.) which is why all the tiny houses are built on wheels (even if they never move).

Would I still need a Habitation Licence for somewhere I do not intend to live in permanently (I assume I do)?
sherbert is offline  
Old Feb 6th 2020, 5:58 pm
  #6  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,683
wellinever has a reputation beyond reputewellinever has a reputation beyond reputewellinever has a reputation beyond reputewellinever has a reputation beyond reputewellinever has a reputation beyond reputewellinever has a reputation beyond reputewellinever has a reputation beyond reputewellinever has a reputation beyond reputewellinever has a reputation beyond reputewellinever has a reputation beyond reputewellinever has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Buying Land in Portugal - Experiences

what are you talking about???? why are tiny houses banned? where did i say that??
wellinever is offline  
Old Feb 6th 2020, 7:00 pm
  #7  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,148
Moses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Buying Land in Portugal - Experiences

Originally Posted by sherbert
Thanks all for this - super informative!

To clarify, I *do not* intend to buy rustico land and put a temporary structure on it. I intend to buy urbano land in a rural-ish location (that has planning permission) and put what might be considered by some to be a temporary structure on it (such as a converted shipping container home, although a shipping container would need to be placed on concrete foundations anyway so would then likely be considered permanent). I don't intend to live in it permanently: it would be used as a holiday home.

@wellinever, why are tiny houses banned? Where do you live? I can understand them being banned to stop unscrupulous landlords etc but as a holiday cabin?

So I can find out whether land has been designated for building on at the Camara but what about planning laws? e.g. in England you can build on your own property *without* needing any planning permission as long as the building is no more than 2.5 metres high and is a certain distance from the perimeter of the property. In the US, if a structure is on wheels, it does not have to conform to building code (i.e. that the rooms need to be a minimum size etc.) which is why all the tiny houses are built on wheels (even if they never move).

Would I still need a Habitation Licence for somewhere I do not intend to live in permanently (I assume I do)?
Following on from our Tiny Homes Permission, Part 1. Paulo Borges, a professional architect, from Plataforma – arquitectura, shares his insights on legal permissions around Tiny Homes.

Is there such a thing as ‘non permanent dwelling’ in the Portuguese system?
It’s a difficult question. In the Portuguese system there’s no definition for a non permanent dwelling.
What we have is a definition for camping and a definition for dwellings. Camping is a temporary installation of a portable shelter to be placed outdoors, with the purpose of serving as temporary accommodation. All the other types of accommodations (non portable or permanent) are considered dwellings and they have to fulfil the laws. The difficulty here is to clarify what we can consider to be a non portable shelter or what we consider temporary installation.
Some councils have rules that clarify this question but most of them do not specify this. But basically for the Portuguese common sense, the authorities will consider a portable accommodation as something that you can build and take off in some hours or one day. Also they will consider it a temporary installation if you don’t live there. If you built a kitchen or a bath, this are signs that you live there and it’s not a temporary accommodation, and all types of permanent accommodations are mandatory to be licensed and they have to follow the rules.Will a Tiny Home always be allowed on an urban article?
Not always. It depends on the restrictions that applies on the urban article.

Is it true that any structure less than 30m2 doesn’t need planning permission?
Not always. It depends on the restrictions that each council applies on “constructions that does need permissions”. Some councils only apply this rule until 10m2 and they need to fulfil other restrictions. Others councils may not have this rule at all.

What is the best way to approach the Camara when asking about planning permission for a Tiny Home?
The best way is to ask first what are the restrictions for constructions that doesn’t need planning permission. If your construction fits in this category, you probably just need to fill a form to inform the council about your project. If it’s a house, even a tiny house, you will need to hire an architect to apply. He will know what’s the restriction for a planning permission.

Last edited by Moses2013; Feb 6th 2020 at 7:04 pm.
Moses2013 is offline  
Old Feb 6th 2020, 7:05 pm
  #8  
Resident Cynic
 
macliam's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Suffolk,UK; Alentejo, Portugal
Posts: 14,830
macliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Buying Land in Portugal - Experiences

Originally Posted by sherbert
Thanks all for this - super informative!

To clarify, I *do not* intend to buy rustico land and put a temporary structure on it. I intend to buy urbano land in a rural-ish location (that has planning permission) and put what might be considered by some to be a temporary structure on it (such as a converted shipping container home, although a shipping container would need to be placed on concrete foundations anyway so would then likely be considered permanent). I don't intend to live in it permanently: it would be used as a holiday home.

@wellinever, why are tiny houses banned? Where do you live? I can understand them being banned to stop unscrupulous landlords etc but as a holiday cabin?

So I can find out whether land has been designated for building on at the Camara but what about planning laws? e.g. in England you can build on your own property *without* needing any planning permission as long as the building is no more than 2.5 metres high and is a certain distance from the perimeter of the property. In the US, if a structure is on wheels, it does not have to conform to building code (i.e. that the rooms need to be a minimum size etc.) which is why all the tiny houses are built on wheels (even if they never move).

Would I still need a Habitation Licence for somewhere I do not intend to live in permanently (I assume I do)?
Firstly, the advice given is correct - don't even start assuming that what is OK in the UK is OK in Portugal, the planning process is far more regorous.

Building, or extending, can be a PITA - I have an extension unfinished for 3 years due to a dispute with the builder and can't get him off the license - and I had to argue seemingly obvious changes past the architect, civil engineer and local câmara. In doing so I met up with a local guy who was spitting blood because his plans to use shipping containers was rejected outright - he was even talking of doing "an overnighter" on a Bank Holiday - basically building an unlicensed house and then declaring it and paying the fines...... except he'd been told the câmara would insist he tore it down too. In my case, when (if) I ever get this deadweight off me, I'll have to start again (although I may be able to shortcut as the câmara are aware of the situation and sympathetic).

Taliking about a "holiday home" won't help you either. AFAIK anything covered by a roof is a building and anything you intend to sleep in will need a habitation license. Even a tile-covered carport can be considered as a change to the building area and I seem to recall that there are minimum room sizes acceptable on any new plans (as well as minimum insulation levels, safety railings on terraces and steps, etc., etc). - so "tiny" houses probably aren't acceptable.Only the local câmara can tell you what they will and will not accept - and it can cost you a lot of time and money to find that out too - that's why you need a local architect. ​​Of course, as always, you can always go ahead and take a chance, many Portuguese do - but, do you need the hassle?

macliam is offline  
Old Feb 6th 2020, 7:15 pm
  #9  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,683
wellinever has a reputation beyond reputewellinever has a reputation beyond reputewellinever has a reputation beyond reputewellinever has a reputation beyond reputewellinever has a reputation beyond reputewellinever has a reputation beyond reputewellinever has a reputation beyond reputewellinever has a reputation beyond reputewellinever has a reputation beyond reputewellinever has a reputation beyond reputewellinever has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Buying Land in Portugal - Experiences

LOL.....and every day waiting for the Camara planners on their daily look out for any illegal building.
good luck
wellinever is offline  
Old Feb 6th 2020, 8:02 pm
  #10  
BE Enthusiast
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 946
sherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Buying Land in Portugal - Experiences

Originally Posted by wellinever
what are you talking about???? why are tiny houses banned? where did i say that??
Calm down. It was @moses2013 that mentioned that tiny houses were banned and I attributed the quote to the wrong person.
sherbert is offline  
Old Feb 6th 2020, 8:18 pm
  #11  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,148
Moses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Buying Land in Portugal - Experiences

Originally Posted by sherbert
Calm down. It was @moses2013 that mentioned that tiny houses were banned and I attributed the quote to the wrong person.
No worries. Problem with tiny houses is that on many urban plots it could be classed as caravan and as soon as you connect water it might be permanent structure. Then you have minimum size requirements and so on. At the end of the day every town will have different restrictions.

Last edited by Moses2013; Feb 6th 2020 at 8:23 pm.
Moses2013 is offline  
Old Feb 6th 2020, 8:47 pm
  #12  
BE Enthusiast
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 946
sherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond reputesherbert has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Buying Land in Portugal - Experiences

Right, so the long and short of the story I am seeing is that I should find the land, go to the local camara to find out what can and can't be built on it before purchasing it . And then prepare for a lot of red tape and stress.
sherbert is offline  
Old Feb 6th 2020, 9:25 pm
  #13  
Resident Cynic
 
macliam's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Suffolk,UK; Alentejo, Portugal
Posts: 14,830
macliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Buying Land in Portugal - Experiences

Originally Posted by sherbert
Right, so the long and short of the story I am seeing is that I should find the land, go to the local camara to find out what can and can't be built on it before purchasing it . And then prepare for a lot of red tape and stress.
Sounds sbout right. Plus, do NOT use an architect or builder not known to the câmara - I did and I'm paying dearly for that mistake. Just forget about anything you would do in the UK and play it by the book, or (more likely) forget about it.
macliam is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.