Mac and Mabel

We have had a few early fires occur around us, which we suspected might be related to the very land clearing aimed at minimising them. Now we know for sure - over the past couple of days we have watched a slow car crash unfold, finally reaching its inevitable conclusion yesterday. Day one - clear a tract of land and pile up the huge mountain of debris next to a village road. Us thinking, that's very good but are they actually going to remove that pile of fuel. Day two - huge pile has been set alight to get rid...and come dusk still aglow and smoking, no-one to be seen. Day three - bombeiros on the scene dealing with an April fire, probably wondering how it could possibly have happened! We've seen other burns being set on windy days...me thinks the powers that be should have also distributed leaflets on common sense 🙄

mfesharne

The law says that offending land needs to be cut & cleaned of flammable debris but how that 2nd bit is achieved isn't quite so easy & although they're cutting shedloads in my area not one has been cleared of the debris & that's as much risk as the trees were.

liveaboard

I believe each camara enforces things its own way, but in general you have to ask permission from the bombeiros for a 'small fire'.

I leave them a map with my location marked [since we don't have road names or addresses and no one uses GPS] and my phone number.

They approve if fire risk is considered reasonable; they keep a list of fires of the day so they can phone [me] if anyone reports a wildfire in that place.

Many people don't bother, especially for small burns; but I got a stern warning from GNR a few years ago so I always follow procedure and ask first now.

I was talking to a guy in Coimbra some years ago, he told me his bombeiros wouldn't allow any burn any time, resulting in huge flammable debris piles he was unable to get rid of.

It is required to stay with the fire until it's burned out; I think many don't do that.
If there are any heavy branches or logs, the burn takes a full day.

I shot some video of the last one. If I ever get it edited I'll post a link.

I have 2 water filled fire extinguishers and a front end loader to tend and control the fire.

It's easy to lose control of a 'small' fire. I have experience, but still one time the fire started sweeping across the grass towards a forest; I'd thought it too wet to burn.

I put it out by driving the bucket against the ground up and down the fire line hard and fast.
It would be better to have a high capacity hose, but there's no water supply to the outer fields.

I'm always amazed to see how many fires are left [apparently] unattended and how few run away.
I say apparently, because you might not see a person sitting in the shade some distance away [like I do].
Would they be able to put it out if it started to spread though?

GeniB

I'm assuming that they set these 'bonfires' close to the road (and hopefully away from other trees and bushes? ) so that should the bombeiros need to come out they would have easy access to the fire.Its a no win situation really.Maybe this is making the best of difficult job.

I was upset that they chose spring to implement the clearance. All those nests destroyed,nowhere for the birds to return too

liveaboard

They [we] burn where it's practical, which means an open area not too far from where the brush is cut from.

I agree about the birds; sometimes I find a nest in the cut offs. Not nice.

Ingles

Also be very very careful , 4 Portuguese people off advanced age have been burnt to death in the last week when they set fires to clear there ground.

Mac and Mabel

If this is so then the measures are thus far not preventing deaths but contributing to this year's toll. How tragic. We are lucky in that we have a deep natural stone pit on our land in which we burn our debris, controlled and contained and within the stretch of our extended hosepipe to our cisterna. And we don't wander off leaving the fire unattended just because the clock says time for lunch, dinner or bar...as I have read elsewhere has been observed. Unbelievable 😱

liveaboard

Clearance burning is not the same as burning piled cut brush.

Ingles

You knocked the nail right on the head !

Man 79 killed & wife very badly burned , they just set fire to the undergrowth as it was , & it got completely out off control.

Mac and Mabel

I suppose though that the reason behind these people burning their land, even though not wisely, sadly, might be this year's action on land clearing and the feared fines. The fire near us to which bombeiros were called was in a pile and could so easily have got out of hand and caused tragedy, left unattended as it was and too large a single bonfire near trees and undergrowth. We have seen other piles left whilst still smoking. And the fire maps have been showing many more fires around us than would be usual at this time of year, one could reasonably assume due to increased numbers of fires being set at this time in relation to land clearing requirements and fines being more strongly pushed this year. Obviously, talk of even 200€ fines was going to put the fear of god into our neighbours, many of them brear old and not necessarily with family to help, almost forcing them to act rashly and not in the best interests of their or others safety. It's not that I'm against the land clearing per se, we have been doing our duty, but I think these accidents could have so obviously been predicted and educated against as part of the drive. Or maybe there is no changing the habits of a lifetime, but this drive has multiplied the usual daft behaviour and so multiplied the chance of tragedy. I do think as much effort and resource should be being put into educating everyone and bringing perpetrators, negligent or pyromaniacs, to justice properly. After all, a whole tinder dry forest can't catch fire without something or someone starting it.

mfesharne

It's largely the result of decades of negligence when they should have been maintaining the forest floor & firebreaks (IMO)

liveaboard

I maintain 4 hectares; I'm fit, I have machinery, I have time, and I'm practiced at this sort of work.

That's why I know how much work it is, and tricky too.
New brush grows annually, if not cut it build up to risky levels. If a machine can maneuver between the obstacles, brush is chopped up quickly; otherwise it's one by one, cut and carry to be disposed of [burn or shred].

A couple of years ago, I cut 30 pines out of my forest for this reason. 30 trees, cut, hauled, disposed of, do you have any idea what it takes to do that?
And my forest is just one single hectare.


I've been seeing a lot of forest being simply clear cut in the last month, trees that shaded and cooled many homes.
Many rural houses are occupied by elderly people who live on a shoestring, left behind as the young moved to the cities. How can they possibly do the work?

At the same time, something has to be done. Many people are living in peril.

I don't like the rigid formula at all. A patch of trees with access all around is [in my opinion] a negligible danger to adjacent homes. But there's no time left to make judgments on a case by case basis, so the government has mandated all be cut down.

I don't think many people realize the scale of this. How many hectares, how many stories, how many homes and how many people. Millions.

It would be great if there could be fire marshals who could make decisions based on reality on the ground, but to do that it would need thousands of responsible, certified people working full time. An entire new bureaucracy [groan].

So the reality is get professionals in with big machinery who can get it done. They don't have time for niceties, it's cut cut cut, load it and go.
Sorry for the mess? No, not even that.

mfesharne

In fairness to the Government, they actually haven't done that but rather have come up with some good fire prevention criteria............ but unfortunately, local Government & other bodies have often misinterpreted that & issued all kinds of incorrect info.

It also appears to me that some/many landowners are simply cutting everything because it's easier to do that than it is to drop some but not all trees in any single area.

Fuel Management Law - Portugal Wildfires

http://www.portugalwildfires.com/what-is-a-fuel-break/

liveaboard

That's what I'm saying; someone like me has the option to take out a few trees as required, but most people can only sell the entire forest to pay for its cutting.

At this time, the amount of information I've received from government is zero; and as far as I know there are no mailing lists for landowners so I don\t expect anything.

I did get one hand sized pamphlet from a local shop.

I went through your website a bit quickly, but I believe it says a 10 meter clear cut is required on roadsides; but what qualifies as a road in unclear, as is where to measure from.

This will eradicate strips of trees that shade the roads. I'll have to cut 20 or 30, just on the little stretch through my land. I can understand if it's the edge of a forest; that would make sense. But a strip of trees just isn't dangerous [in my opinion anyway].

mfesharne

At this point any trees that were hit by the fire aren't worth much at all anyway...... One of my neighbours was recently offered just €5 per metric tonne.

Concession managed roads – eg. Ascendi etc are supposed to make the fuel breaks on main highways, municipalities are supposed to manage their roads – EM, M or CM roads. For all other small roads, tracks, dirt roads, access roads, the 10 m fuel management is the responsibility of the landowner whose land boundary is on one side of a road, or who owns the land on both sides of a road.

The 10 m measurement is from the edge of the road.

It is not necessarily a clear cut of all trees in the 10 m space – the fuel management law does not stipulate this – it states partial OR total removal of biomass. So you could clear cut if you prefer, particularly if the trees are eucalyptus or pine but only thin them if they are deciduous trees. What really must be done is cleaning the undergrowth from beneath and around trees for 10 m.

If trees are eucalyptus or pine – thin to 10 m between the canopy edges (not trunks) and cut branches and any hanging debris up to half the height of the tree if over 8 m tall. If over 8 m tall, cut branches up to 4 m.
All other trees – thin to 4 m between the canopy edges (not trunks) and cut branches and any hanging debris up to half the height of the tree if over 8 m tall. If over 8 m tall, cut branches up to 4 m.

The object of the exercise is to create discontinuity between the ground and the tree canopy and between the canopies themselves – not to have a thick continuous clump of tree canopies. The tree branches should be pruned back and not hang over the road.