HeleneM

Hello everyone,

I happened upon this forum yesterday whilst researching the process for applying for residency in Portugal. I'm hoping those of you who have already successfully completed the process can help with some advice.

In short, I'm a Brit currently living and working outside the EU. I have had a place in Portugal for several years with a plan to eventually retire there. However, with all the uncertainty around post-Brexit residency rights, I am considering starting the application process before March 2019.

My questions are:

1) do I need to be in Portugal for 3 months before applying for temporary residency or can I just put in the application on arrival?
2) how long does it take after submitting the form?
3) how long can I be out of Portugal in the first year after applying for residency?
4) if applying as a EU citizen, do I still need to provide proof of medical insurance?
5) if I am not intending to take up work, how much is considered sufficient funds to live off? I've read that 50,000 euros would suffice.

Thanks for any advice. Lots of great info in various threads on here but haven't managed to find the answers to these questions.

Red Eric

Would you really be moving your "base" to Portugal and how much time would you actually be looking to spend here?

With regard to the registration of EU citizens, you are supposed to register your presence if you remain for longer than 90 days (you have 30 days beyond that in which to do so) but if it is your intention to reside in Portugal from the outset, there's nothing to stop you doing it sooner.

You won't need private health insurance and shouldn't be asked for proof of funds.

mfesharne

1) The initial 5 year Residencia is just a registration of residency & technically you're supposed to get it not before 3 months & before 4 months but some Camaras will issue them earlier if you have good reason.

2) It takes about 20 minutes & you need to provide NIF number/document, passport, address & about €15 or so.

3) Not sure but think about 6 months?

4) No. Portuguese NHS care is solely based on residency & private health insurance is not required & (IMO) not necessary. Health care here is very good.

5) No proof of income or financial security is required for UK & other EU member state passport holders......... Although it must be admitted that the variable bureaucracy here does sometimes mean that some civil servants confuse non EU requirements with EU requirements.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/living-in-portugal

Portal SEF

Movement and residence - European Commission

Red Eric

I disagree on this point.

Whilst EU regulations explicitly state that you cannot be required to register your presence within the first 90 days, they do not say anything about not being able to do so and the wording of PT law reflects this.

How that's interpreted at local level is possibly another matter.

The registration certificate itself doesn't confer any status on the holder - it just shows that the law was complied with in the case of somebody staying for more than 90 days. The right to reside exists independently of it, so it won't expire or lapse or anything (although, of course, it might be clobbered by Brexit).

However, residing (or claiming that one is residing) in a country has implications in terms of obligations one should comply with as well as possible loss of rights in the country of former residence.

This is why I asked the question above about whether the OP is actually moving. Her country of residence will be the one in which she "habitually resides" - where her "centre of interests" is, no matter what certificates etc she holds. But it would be best to keep that as clear as possible by not obtaining documents which aren't pertinent to the actual situation.

mfesharne

I think these links explain it but of course one should be honest

Portal SEF



Movement and residence - European Commission

HeleneM

Thanks very much Red Eric and Mfesharne for the useful information. To clarify, my intention, for the next one to two years, is to split my time between Portugal and my current base. During this time, I'll be paying tax outside Portugal but observing the rules on minimum stay in the country. After the transition period, I plan to take up full residency in Portugal.

The reason for applying for residency now is purely linked to the uncertainly around Brexit. I am assuming, perhaps wrongly, that if I am in the process before March 2019 and if I satisfy the requirements of minimal stay then my right to reside with be assured. I have read elsewhere that on the temporary permit, I cannot spend more than 6 consecutive or 8 non-consecutive months outside Portugal. This would seem doable for a couple of years.

It would be impossible to move lock, stock and barrel now. The system does seem to allow for some leeway before taking up full residency.

Thanks again for replying to my post. Do let me know if I have misinterpreted anything.

mfesharne

It's a complicated issue (to me at least) but as I understand it, article 70 of the 1969 Vienna Convention enacted 1980 & the acquired rights suggest that once someone is domiciled in a signatory country they then have the right to remain....... and Portugal is a signatory country so therefore you have the right to enter & reside until Brexit is complete & once domiciled here have the right to remain even after Brexit.

captainflack

If you're not paying tax in Portugal, I don't think it qualifies as residence. You will have to pay tax if legally resident here.

Unless you go the golden visa route, where I think you can spend only a week or two per year, but still mark down the time as being resident for the purpose of obtaining permanent residence and citizenship later.

mfesharne

As I understand it, there are exceptions to that.

You have to declare world income but there are cases where you don't pay tax here such as some pensions which have to be taxed in country of origin & of course the NHR thing

Red Eric

For EU citizens, there is no such thing as establishing or maintaining a right to residency through a minimum annual presence. You have a provisional right to enter and remain in the country whenever it pleases you but you must register your presence if staying beyond 90 days and there are some minimal conditions you must satisfy.

I'm not sure where that condition regarding periods of absence comes from but if it exists at all, I would suggest it might have something to do with non EU citizens, who do not have anywhere near the same rights when it comes to entering / re-entering or remaining in the country. It certainly doesn't apply to EU citizens.

One possible piece of good news for you is that the terms of the UK's transition period are as yet not agreed upon and, at least according to today's news, the EU appears to be pushing for the UK to accept full freedom of movement throughout, which potentially extends the period during which you could make the move to 31st December 2020 :
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...brexit-demands

Would that be within your intended schedule or would you still have a gap?

Alternatively, I don't suppose there's any chance of you working remotely from Portugal for part of the year, is there?

Mariboodebumbum

This thread caught my eye as we are in a similar position. Having decided we want to retire and move to our place in Portugal we are wondering about the residency situation also. Do we have to apply via a solicitor or do we go straight to the Camra?

mfesharne

Assuming passports from an EU member state country there's absolutely no need for a lawyer.

As you have a passport from an EU member state, you have the right to enter & reside.

Once here, you need to go to a Fiscal Office (usually in the Camara/Town Hall) and get a Fiscal number/document & to do that you need to provide your passport, some kind of ID to show your address (anywhere in the world is fine) & a few Euros........ this should take about 20 minutes.

After you've been here 3 months & before 4 months, you go to your local Camara & register your residency status with them. This document is called a Residencia & is valid for 5 years. You need to provide your passport, Fiscal Document (AKA NIF) address in Portugal & a few Euros.

Then you go to your local Junta/Council & get your Attestado and for that you need passport, NIF & Residencia.

As Portuguese NHS entitlement is now SOLELY based on residency, you're then entitled to register with a Doctor & get the same care as any Portuguese person.

Now the variables........ Portugal sometimes suffers from variable bureaucracy where individual civil servants misinterpret the rules.

A couple of examples are some Doctor's surgeries ask you to provide a social security number before you can register but this is no longer required.......... but if you're going to work, you need one anyway so easier to go with the flow & just get one from the SS office.

If your not going to work then just tell the person at the Doctor's office to call the SS office & let them sort it out between them.

Some Camaras (notably Penela) try to ask EU passport holders (sic) to provide proof of income or financial security and/or ask for a 'fiscal representative' counter signatory but those should only apply to non EU passports & they have no right to ask for that

Hope that helps

Mariboodebumbum

Brill! Thanks that helps a lot, not planning to work- we’ve had enough of that!

Mac and Mabel

Good info above from Mfesharne. Just to add you need to obtain your Atestado from your local Junta de Freguesia (parish council) before applying for Residencia from the municipal Camara. The Camara will want to see the Atestado, which is basically a document that confirms that you do indeed reside at the address. In order to obtain the Atestado from the Junta Freguesia, you may be asked to have a neighbour/s sign a form to confirm your address, if you are not already known to the Junta.

David_c

Hi Helene,
Hope you're fine.
If you enter Portugal using a UE passport (in this case a british one), in light of the freedom of establishment granted by the Treaty of the UE, there is no need to apply for a residency scheme as far as I know.
What you could explore is the special tax regime available for those who haven't been tax residents in Portugal for the past 5 years - the non habitual residency.
Should you have further questions, don't hesitate.
David.