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Applying for residence permit

Applying for residence permit

Old Feb 7th 2021, 12:24 pm
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Default Applying for residence permit

Hi everyone , can anyone please throw any light on this one ? I recently had a very informative conversation with a gentleman at SEF regarding applying for a resident card and he told me that I need to register and they could take it from there . Once I had established the fact that one needs to change your " Certificado de Registo de Cidado da Uniao Europeia " for a new document , I spent ages trawling through all my paperwork from when I bought our apartment back in 2006 and , despite having all kinds of tax certificates I could not find the elusive " CRUE " . The property was bought using a well known lawyer in Portimao and I have no reason to believe that anything should have been omitted . I have further read that if you do not renew your " CRUE " on a regular basis you are liable to a fine , and I have never even given a thought to this as I never knew I was supposed to have a document that I have never seen or been asked for . I am still not convinced regarding the benefits of going for a residence cert but now I am totally confused ! Of course the SEF phone service being temporarily closed does not help but that obviously can't be helped . Anyone have any thoughts on this lot ? I would much appreciate any enlightenment .
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Old Feb 7th 2021, 12:47 pm
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Default Re: Applying for residence permit

Hello and Welcome.
I doubt that you received a CRUE via your solicitor as back then it wasn't really needed(unless permanent resident) and we could stay as long as we liked unless over the 180+ days. If you have not got one (A4 piece of paper issued via local Camara) then applications now need to be done through SEF I believe.
Not heard anything about a fine if not renewed. The renewal(and application for this can be done online) I suspect is so they can issue the new card as opposed to the old A4 sheet .New card all digital, I would think similar to a Portuguese ID type card.
SEF are going through a bit of an "overhaul" at the moment due to various problems that they have had over recent months, which might explain phone closures. Have you tried emailing them? If you are in PT you can still get an appointment with them I think.
Benefits of residence...Hmm some good some not so .Good that you stay longer than 90 days and have freedom to move around rest of EU for 90+ days, and you also do not need to arrange for a fiscal representative and all that entails.
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Old Feb 7th 2021, 1:26 pm
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Default Re: Applying for residence permit

Originally Posted by den morris
Anyone have any thoughts on this lot ? I would much appreciate any enlightenment .
Hi, and welcome to the forum from me

Can you explain your situation a little more clearly?

You own a property here - it sounds as though it's a holiday home and that your principal residence is in the UK. Is that right, and if so, is that the way you want things to remain?

Have you occupied your Portuguese property for periods exceeding 90 days at a time in the past? And do you wish to in the future?
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Old Feb 7th 2021, 2:19 pm
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Default Re: Applying for residence permit

Originally Posted by toots sweet
Hello and Welcome.
I doubt that you received a CRUE via your solicitor as back then it wasn't really needed(unless permanent resident) and we could stay as long as we liked unless over the 180+ days. If you have not got one (A4 piece of paper issued via local Camara) then applications now need to be done through SEF I believe.
Not heard anything about a fine if not renewed. The renewal(and application for this can be done online) I suspect is so they can issue the new card as opposed to the old A4 sheet .New card all digital, I would think similar to a Portuguese ID type card.
SEF are going through a bit of an "overhaul" at the moment due to various problems that they have had over recent months, which might explain phone closures. Have you tried emailing them? If you are in PT you can still get an appointment with them I think.
Benefits of residence...Hmm some good some not so .Good that you stay longer than 90 days and have freedom to move around rest of EU for 90+ days, and you also do not need to arrange for a fiscal representative and all that entails.
Hi and thanks for the reply . Yep I've been in touch with SEF and found them very helpful but like I say I was completely baffled by the lack of a CRUE , but you've cleared that one up somewhat . We tend to stay for periods of 60 days at a time and we have a Portuguese friend who is a businessman who has offered to be our FR , having helped us out on a couple of occasions with paying the IMI , we have known him and his family for a long time so have no fears of any underhand goings on . So having said that I can't really see that a residencia would be to our advantage .
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Old Feb 7th 2021, 2:36 pm
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Default Re: Applying for residence permit

Hello and thanks for the welcome . Our situation is pretty much as you summed it up , we are currently in the UK with two Ej tickets for May and October burning holes in their envelope , owned a property near Portimao since 2006 , use it as a holiday home for my wife and sometimes the kids and grandkids and do not let it out , principal residence is in UK , and as we tend to spend 60 days at a time in Portugal , ( due mainly to insurance cover ) , I shouldn't think it would be too much of a problem adhering to the 90/180 days rule . We have never stayed for longer than three months and are quite happy to continue in the same way . We are both pensioners and have no other income . Having just told you all that I am beginning to wonder why I am even thinking of residency , it's just that a lot of the people we know in Portugal have gone that way so I wondered if we should foolow suit . Thanks for taking the trouble to reply , stay safe and happy days .
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Old Feb 7th 2021, 2:53 pm
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Default Re: Applying for residence permit

Originally Posted by toots sweet
Hello and Welcome.
Benefits of residence...Hmm some good some not so .Good that you stay longer than 90 days and have freedom to move around rest of EU for 90+ days, and you also do not need to arrange for a fiscal representative and all that entails.
Having residency in Portugal (or any other EU country) as a third country citizen (UK) does not allow that.
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Old Feb 7th 2021, 4:04 pm
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Question Re: Applying for residence permit

Sorry Bomber , does not allow that ... does not allow what ?
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Old Feb 7th 2021, 4:17 pm
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Default Re: Applying for residence permit

The bit I empahised in bold italics.
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Old Feb 7th 2021, 5:27 pm
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Default Re: Applying for residence permit

Of course you are forgetting 2 important things if you become resident
1) You must change your driving licence 90 days from becoming resident, and then loose your UK licence (insurance then very expensive in UK)
2) You need to become taxable in Portugal, also very expensive, as you can see here (in euros).


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Old Feb 8th 2021, 7:09 am
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Default Re: Applying for residence permit

Originally Posted by den morris
Hello and thanks for the welcome . Our situation is pretty much as you summed it up , we are currently in the UK with two Ej tickets for May and October burning holes in their envelope , owned a property near Portimao since 2006 , use it as a holiday home for my wife and sometimes the kids and grandkids and do not let it out , principal residence is in UK , and as we tend to spend 60 days at a time in Portugal , ( due mainly to insurance cover ) , I shouldn't think it would be too much of a problem adhering to the 90/180 days rule . We have never stayed for longer than three months and are quite happy to continue in the same way . We are both pensioners and have no other income . Having just told you all that I am beginning to wonder why I am even thinking of residency , it's just that a lot of the people we know in Portugal have gone that way so I wondered if we should foolow suit . Thanks for taking the trouble to reply , stay safe and happy days .
From that, it is clear that you have never been either obliged or eligible to apply for any sort of residence document and if you're not intending to stay for periods exceeding 90 days in 180 in future, you remain a visitor only, so again no residence documents required or available to you.

I suspect some of the people who have recently acquired residence documents so that they can come and go at will may be having some interesting conversations in the future if they're not mainly resident in Portugal.

Enjoy your peace of mind and your holidays.
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Old Feb 8th 2021, 9:46 am
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Default Re: Applying for residence permit

I agree with Red Eric - the SEF clearly has you barking up the wrong tree, as you are not resident in Portugal, not likely to be resident, and have no desire to be resident, so you have no need for a Resident Card and would not have had one from 2006. Enjoy your holidays in Portugal as and when you can, within the new limits of course, and rest easy. You have a good arrangement with your FRep and all seems to be fine!
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Old Feb 8th 2021, 9:52 am
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Smile Re: Applying for residence permit

Thanks very much to all who have taken the trouble and time to reply , it has all been very helpful . Just a couple of points I'd like to pick up on , Not being allowed to remain in EU for more than 90 days out of 180 , most people I have spoken to recently have applied for residence mainly for that reason , does that mean that this understanding is not the case ? Do you need to become taxable as a resident if you are a retired pensioner and would you be liable to pay tax on those pensions in Portugal ? Also a very interesting point about changing your driving licence and hence the insurance being higher in UK , if that is the case there's gonna be a lot of grumpy ( uninformed ) motorists around ! And finally the point made by Red Eric ( any relation to Eric the Viking ) ? who says " some of the people who have recently acquired residence documents so they can come and go at will may be having some interesting conversations in the future if they're not mainly resident in Portugal " , does this mean that there is a " qualifying minimum period of time you must spend in Portugal " in order to be " mainly resident " and eligible to hold a residence permit ? Once again thanks to one and all and I look forward to joining in with the Forum in the future . I must point out that after a couple of months of trying to get the right information regards whether or not to apply for residence a couple of days on the Forum has told me just about all I need to know in order to make an informed decision , which is , as long as we continue to enjoy our holidays as we have in the past I cannot see any major benefits in applying . I'd much rather be a " reasonably well informed tourist " than someone holding a residence cert and not completely sure of their situation and legal position . Cheers everyone .
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Old Feb 8th 2021, 11:52 am
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Default Re: Applying for residence permit

Originally Posted by den morris
TNot being allowed to remain in EU for more than 90 days out of 180 , most people I have spoken to recently have applied for residence mainly for that reason , does that mean that this understanding is not the case ?
It does, they believed what they wanted to believe instead of reading the facts.

Originally Posted by den morris
Do you need to become taxable as a resident if you are a retired pensioner and would you be liable to pay tax on those pensions in Portugal ?
If you are a registered resident or spend more than 183 (185?) days in Portugal, yes.

Originally Posted by den morris
.... does this mean that there is a " qualifying minimum period of time you must spend in Portugal " in order to be " mainly resident " and eligible to hold a residence permit ?
Yes, under the Withdrawal Agreement you can´t be absent for more than 6 months in every 12 months during the first 5 years of being resident (different timescales apply to third country citizens, non WA, residents).
​​​​​​​
Originally Posted by den morris
I'd much rather be a " reasonably well informed tourist " than someone holding a residence cert and not completely sure of their situation and legal position . Cheers everyone .
​​​​​​​
A wise decision, as Red Eric has already pointed out, those who took out residency with no intention of actually becoming resident just because they wanted to holiday for more than 90 days are going to have some interesting conversations ahead, with the possibility of prison term in the horizon.
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