riv

I have owned a flat and then a house in Eastern Algarve for eight years.( V. little usage this year, as you can imagine. Still, nice to know it's there with neighbours who kindly keep an eye.... ....)

The intention has always been to use for long term ( variable duration) stays ( alternating with northern England ) whilst remaining officially UK resident, ie spending at least six months plus a day in UK.

At the same time I had in mind I could flip to Portuguese residency ( so having to spend under the six months residence in UK, as I understand it ).

I have been happy with this arrangement, and still am. However, I am aware of course that the window for easy establishment of Portuguese residency is closing soon. It is crossing my mind as to what the advantages and disadvantages might be of converting from UK to Portuguese residency.

I am aware that in some circumstances pension income is not taxed in Portugal for ten years. However ( not a tax expert ) I have also read that pensions deriving from UK Government and Local Government sources remain taxable in the UK, even if the pensioner relocates abroad.
So if that understanding is correct there would be little or no tax advantage to a move.

On the other hand, once one becomes resident outside the UK one loses automatic entitlement to NHS treatment, which of course becomes more and more relevant as one ( hopefully) gets older. ( I have read very varying reviews of SNS treatment..........then again one could say the same about the NHS, though where I am in the North it seems to work quite well still.)

I imagine there are other issues beyond comparative taxation and health service.............but would welcome comments / suggestions from those who have been through the process of converting from UK to Portuguese residency after reaching the 65 y/o milestone and becoming OAPs ( lol ).

Has anyone even come across issues since relocating to Portugal which have made them think about reversing the process ?

toots sweet

We are in the very same position/mindframe. Currently thinking that we will go for PT residency. Just the tax/health questions are a question mark.
Am i right in thinking(we are retired and living off private and state pensions and savings) that we are not eligible for tax in PT.Also as we are retired we can still use NHS services as we will spend approx 6 months in UK/PTWith S1(?) form.

riv

I think the point is that 'approx six months' doesn't cut it. You have to decide whethe you will be in UK for six months plus a day or not. And make your arrangements in the future accordingly.

My understanding is that 6 months plus a day means you are resident in the UK and thus entitled to NHS services ( and tax liability )

If instead you are officially resident in Portugal then you are NOT eligible for regular treatment in the UK. ( Emergency treatment depends on what arrangements if any the UK and Portugal maintain, whether on a bilateral or EU wide basis. ) . My guess is that there will be some arrangement which covers emergency treatment, but I suspect that like me this is not what is on your mind, as that can always be covered via travel insurance.

Again this is just my understanding but I think your PRIVATE pension will not be taxed in Portugal for ten years. Neither will your state pension, HOWever the latter remains taxable ( as I understand it ) in the UK whether you are resident in UK or Portugal .

toots sweet

This is what we are thinking and it makes the move to PT/residency more attractive as have just reread the S1 info on Gov.uk website. (We will still keep a home in the UK)............(taken out some of details not relevant)https://www.gov.uk/guidance/healthca...#posted-worker

Healthcare if you live and work in Portugal

Everyone who’s registered as a resident can also register to access the Portuguese national health service (SNS) on the same basis as a Portuguese citizen.

This is the same if you’re employed, self-employed or not working.

If you live in Portugal or move there before the end of 2020, your rights to access healthcare in Portugal will stay the same from 1 January 2021 for as long as you remain resident.

This means you’ll:

• continue to get state healthcare in Portugal on the same basis as a Portuguese resident
• still be entitled to a Portuguese EHIC for travel, including visits to the UK

You may also have the right to apply for a UK S1 if you start drawing a UK State Pension
UK-funded healthcare: using an S1 form in Portugal



You may be entitled to state healthcare paid for by the UK if you live in Portugal and receive either:

• a UK State Pension
• some other ‘exportable benefits’

Not all UK benefits that can be claimed while abroad entitle you to UK-funded healthcare. Read more about claiming benefits if you move abroad or contact Jobcentre Plus to ask about a benefit.

You may also be entitled to an S1 form if you’re a posted worker or a frontier worker (someone who works in one state and lives in another). You must contact HMRC National Insurance enquiries to find out if you’re eligible.

Once you have an S1 form, you must register it on the Portuguese social security system. This means you and your dependants will be entitled to state healthcare in Portugal on the same basis as a Portuguese citizen.

How to get an S1 form

If you have a UK State Pension, you must request an application form by phone from NHS Overseas Healthcare Services.

NHS Overseas Healthcare Services
Telephone: +44 (0)191 218 1999
Monday to Friday, 8am to 6pm
Saturday, 9am to 3pm

How to use an S1 form in Portugal

Register your S1 form at any social security office (segurança social). Find your nearest office (website in Portuguese).

You also need to register your S1 form at your local health centre (centro de saúde).

You’ll need your:

• S1 form
• passport
• residence certificate

You may also need your tax identification number (NIF). You can get this from your local tax office. Once you’ve registered at a health centre, you’ll be issued with a health number (número de utente de saúde). This shows that you’re entitled to state healthcare on the same basis as a Portuguese citizen.

UK-funded healthcare using an S1 from 1 January 2021

If you’re living in Portugal before the end of 2020, your rights to access healthcare will stay the same from 1 January 2021 if you’re either:

• receiving a UK State Pension
• receiving some other ‘exportable benefits’
• a frontier worker (someone who works in one state and lives in another)

This means that you’ll get:

• continued access to healthcare in Portugal using your UK-issued S1 form
• a UK-issued EHIC for travel
• planned treatments in other EU countries via the S2 route
• access to the NHS in England, Scotland and Wales when you’re visiting the UK

EHIC if you have a registered S1

You need to get a new UK-issued EHIC that’s valid for travel from 1 January 2021.

Apply now for your new EHIC on the NHS website

Rambling archer

As UK pensioners with S1 availability you ARE allowed treatment in the UK under NHS once you have your UK S1 approved by the Social Security of Portugal, to receive health care as a Portuguese resident and also be eligible in the UK. Check the UK governments website https://www.gov.uk/guidance/living-in-portugal, but this is only valid up to Residency claimed before 31 December 2020, and arrangements completed before June 2021. Then things get more complicated and although there are bilateral treaties with Portugal on such matters, Brexit crash-out could affect some things which we still do not know. The EHIC situation is related to this also as with the S1 approved by Portugal and registered as such with the UK, you can then ask for your EHIC as UK citizens resident in Portugal for travel within the EU ... again with the above provisos!

Basically if you want to do it you need to get your skates on - see other threads recently!
Government pensions from the UK are indeed taxed in the UK but not ALSO in Portugal and you retain your personal tax allowance in the UK. Under the NHR scheme if you qualify, your basic UK state pension (not government pension) is not taxed in the UK or in Portugal. Beware that the UK may consider, even though you spend more than 6 months elsewhere, that you remain tax-resident in the UK if you spend some regular time there, if you have family commitments there, if you have property or business interests there ... etc ... check it out first !

riv

All the gubbins about S1 above just seems to me to confirm that the only way to have a RIGHT to regular NHS care in the UK ( as opposed to emergency needed care on visiting ) would be to remain resident in the UK, by virtue of spending 6 months plus one day at least in the UK.

So it would be useful to know how good is the medical care and treatment under the SNS, should one need it, eg for such obvious biggies as cancer diagnosis and treatment, Parkinson's, dementia ( I know...........it's depressing...........but not thinking about it won't stop it happening down the line )

If you are legally resident in Portugal it seems to me that you are entitled to SNS care, full stop. No need to invoke S1.
The ISSUE is, how good is that care, esp. for serious conditions.

EU.flag

Many people confuse and blur lines about "tax residency" and immigration residency. They are not same thing and have different rules/dependencies.
As UK national, you have right to lifetime residency in UK, so you dont lose that by moving abroad.
UK tax liability (there is no such thing as "tax residency") doesnt stop once you move abroad, there are complex rules covering that.

Useful links:
UK Statutory Residence Test (SRT)
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-test-srt-rdr3

Using the NHS when you return to live in the UK
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/using-th...live-in-the-uk

As for SNS service, it just common sense logic. Just like you would get best NHS service in major towns like London, same apply in PT.
You'll get better service in Lisbon/Porto then small towns, as big towns attract talent with better wage/work opportunities.
I would expect serious cases to be referred to Lisbon/Porto by local gp.

NHR scheme is tweaked every year and you have to keep eye on changes.

wellinever

if you become a resident of Portugal, you may find it difficult to get car insurance in the uk on any vehicle owned in the UK, if not difficult then very expensive
The reasons.....
non uk resident
and you have to change your uk driving licence to a Portuguese one if you intend to drive in Portugal, check with your uk car insurer.....

Just another issue I have also come across.
Remember also that after brexit you can only remain in Portugal for 90 days in 6 months, unless you can get an extension.
I am trying to find out all of the ins and outs of doing this, but by god its difficult.

TonyJ1

Though government pensions from the UK are taken into account to determine the tax on 'other' income, the government pensions is not taxable in Portugal - this comes from the double tax treaty.
In respect on non government pensions including state pensions, are taxable in Portugal, even under the nhr programme (at 10%) or normal tax rates if the taxpayer chooses to ignore the nhr status. Under previous nhr rules, these pensions were and remain tax free for those taxpayers registered before the alterations to the nhr rules

riv

TONYJ1

Do you have any advice re the situation for someone who has acquired Residency in Portugal ( whether or not claiming the NHR advantages ) .......

Is there a legal mechanism whereby such a person ( now Resident in Portugal, not in the UK ) can, should the need arise, return to the UK and obtain NHS treatment, eg for something complicated and needing months of therapy, such as chemo ?

Separate from that issue, do you have any reliable reports as to a comparison of the treatment available within the Portuguese SNS system, as compared to that provided by the UK's NHS ?

is it possible to make a generalised comparison between SNS hospitals and outpatients Clinics vs NHS hospitals and outpatients Clinics ?

( In the UK, these things vary around the country, but then the UK is v large compared to Portugal. )

TonyJ1

I am afraid I am not competent to offer advice on medical matters and the mechanics of using the NHS vs SNS. In my opinion, generally for specialised and emergency treatment, the SNS would probably be much better than private care. For elective care, probably worth considering private care as you would be able to jump over long waiting lists. Residing in a smaller centre probably be able to get more personalised medical care then in bigger centres - but these are general observations. Of course there would be more specialists in larger centers. I am not able at all to compare the SNS vs NHS. Maybe somebody else will be able to expand on this thread.

toots sweet

Not a comparison I'm afraid, but just a personal view of the current NHS. My GP there has been taken over by a community collective practise and they have temporarily closed down our surgery so it can be used as a Covid triage centre! We now have to share our facilities with one practise covering ours,theirs and a 3rd practise. The service is appalling.Can't see a Dr, telephone appts with who knows who(I had a paramedic one time).Prescriptions not fulfilled and 3 times out of 4 wrong. 40 mins on phone to speak to someone.No one returning calls.Hospitals ....no one wants to go there.Lack of appts for high risk patients. The list goes on. So my view is ..the PT service can't be worse. Our limited visits have been OK,not particularly wonderful but OK,except for one receptionist who is a law unto herself. I know we have unprecedented circumstances ,but the NHS is no better.(IMO)

BillBullock

Just had emergency treatment at Faro hospital (SNS) and could not fault it. Fell over yesterday (Sunday) after tripping, landed on the back of my head (don't ask me how I did that as I should have landed on my front), out cold for a few minutes and obviously concussed. Ambulance arrived pretty quickly (we live out in the sticks) and I was whisked off to the hospital. Excellent treatment including MRI scan of brain (nothing found) and blood tests. Everyone spoke English as I was confused and still a bit shocked. Portuguese does not come naturally to me; I once had a dream in Portuguese but it didn't last very long.. After a thorough examination, someone phoned my wife to come and pick me up; they have your phone numbers on the SNS computer system . Everyone we have spoken to about emergency treatment at Faro hospital says they could not fault the treatment and that includes serious, sudden illnesses.

riv

V useful to know, thanks. Get well soon.

Would be useful to have similar reports from anyone who has had to undergo lengthy course/s of treatment, eg chemo or radio .

Glaucoma ? Diabetes ?

bons

Wow, glad you're ok. Will there be any further treatment or have you been given a clean bill of health barring rest?