bigglesafloat

From what I have seen of the A22 the traffic East of Faro is hardly worth the cost of installing the system - the traffic West of Faro to Lagos is another matter. I expect the system will be installed and operated in the normal efficient Portuguese manner with lots of fore thought (hrmmmph?!!!)

james.mc

.......and if past experience in anything to go by, lots of years between the proposed date and actual introduction of a working system. They be fining people for not having chipped their cars well before the chips will be available.

I hope to be well gone by then.

EsuriJohn

What traffic east of Olhau?

Fredbargate

That lot from CE checking out the restaurants

lennox

fred if you cant say anything positive and helpful then shut up and let the people on this with good intentions, help each other

Fredbargate

Apart from making two negative comments about me what have you put into this thread or even this forum?

I have been using these roads for the past 28 years, however the outcome of this toll will be the deciding factor on my future use of them.

lennox

No offence meant, but I also have been using these roads for many years. Unlike yourself whom can choose whether to support Postugal, the majority of posts on this thread are about what the people whom live are have property in the area will have to encounter. We who live in the area have to adjust according to the facts what are finally decided. We cant just avoid Portugal. The thread as I understood is to help each other share information based on the information we presently have. Sorry if you feel otherwise.

CAROL ELIZABETH

It would help if we had the facts about what exactly is going to be put in place and what needs to be done to cars. Those of us who use hire cars will leave it to the companies to sort- no doubt we will pay more. It is the lack of clarity that makes it difficult. Brits cope well when they know what needs to be done. Perhaps we should just become a little more Mediterranean and not think a out it too much!

EsuriJohn

The decisions have already been made if there is no political change the tolls will start in April.

The Portugal News carries a front page headline DEATH TOLLS and p.2 is a full page on the death toll. You can read this online. Too much detail for me to report here but all on the downside.

Tolling will be by chip placed in the vehicle at the owners cost of €27 from CTT post offices. 180,000 have already been fitted. Arches are to be erected to read these chips and that is how they expect to collect their revenue.

Their are EU rules about tolling estuarial bridge crossing so I think they will mean it will not be possible to start the toll before the on slip to Faro at Castro Marim and end eastwards at the off slip. I don't see our meal trips to "the other side" being affected but its going to cost a lot more for a round trip to the airport to pick up visitors. Our plot is to use the EN 125 for the pick up and return on the A22 (after 3 hrs on a plane people do not want to spend another hour in a car). Then to drop off we will take the A22 to Faro for certainty on timing and then return on the EN125.

Still no indication on what will happen to non-Portuguese vehicles so I suspect the Spanish along with the hordes of Dutch motor homes will just ignore the Arches.

Casa Santo Estevo

In the north of Portugal the electronically tolled roads have already been introduced. The introduction date was mid October 2010.
The new tolling system is to be installed on highways( motorways) that were once free. The old Via Verde network (where there are manned booths) will still operate as in the past.
The Spanish that live in Galicia are not happy about the way this system is working.
Information coming from either the Portuguese government or the road operators is virtually non-existent. It also seems that car hire companies are being a bit complicated too. Most of the news about how this electronic tolling system works comes from my local newspaper.

This is what I have learnt. The links given will be either in Portuguese or Spanish.
This is how to pay on roads that the Portuguese call Via Verde.
The heading photo shows the normal tollbooth area, this includes manned booths. It also allows those of you who are registered live in Portugal and with a Portuguese plate vehicle to register for a card and a transponder. This you place in the windscreen of your vehicle. This works fine as money is automatically deducted from your bank account when you pass under the toll scanner. It will work from both the old Via Verdes and the new system.
The following link gives further information to those who live in Portugal: FAQs
So everything will be ok for you if you set up an account.

The problem comes to those who rent a vehicle and for those of us who live outside of Portugal. It will also be a problem for those who rent a Spanish car too. The car rental agencies and companies, as far as I can tell have not given any of their customers information on how to pay these tolls. Those that fall into these categories cannot set up an account; besides purchasing a transponder for the car is going to prove very expensive for the occasional trip. If you live in Spain it seems you can pre purchase card via the Portuguese Post office website. This route is quite tortuous to navigate and is only in Portuguese, no Spanish or English.
Post Office

Here are some links to help you understand that this toll system is unreasonable on several fronts.
No online map or GPS system has been updated to include the new or proposed toll routes. So do not rely on them for information for the time being.
Here is a link to all the road operators in Portugal. There is nothing about the new system in any of this information.
This is the operator which covers Northern Portugal. Again no information about the new toll roads.
These are photos of the new gantries:




Note there is no manned toll booths. The second photo shows the road signage used. I have never seen this one in Europe before so maybe it is unique to Portugal.This may add to the confusion for tourists.

The only map of the new toll roads in northern Portugal.

When the tolls were first introduced up here there was chaos on the old N roads as there were not enough transponders for The Portuguese let alone the Spanish who required one. Link.

This bit is about the tolls gathered, only by this new system and the amount of drivers fined for under or no payment. Some figures here:
All in the first 3 months of operation.
45 million€ collected. In a year that means in excess of 330 million€ will be collected.
55000 fined.
225000 transponders have now been sold.
There are no figures given to the amount collected in fines to for the sold transponders.


The latest bit of news about the tolls.
The Portuguese government has allowed the Spanish up here to set up a bank account with a Spanish bank. However the account as to have a minimum of 200€ to keep it open. If you manage to go through the horrendous route of paying via the Post Office website you will also be hit by commission charges set up by the website. This can double the cost of the toll paid.

The Galician government is still trying to find ways to persuade Portugal this is bad for trade. They are even considering going to the EU court over this. But that may take a while to happen. Persuasion is always the best option when you want to remain friends.
So there it; the news from up north. I wonder if thing will be different second time around?

olivia

The EN125 is going to become very congested and already is a dangerous road for accidents.
Time spent in traffic jams and increased fuel consumption might go some way towards paying the toll. Do you have a figure for the cost of a trip to Faro?

EsuriJohn

I wouldn't think so!

Fredbargate

Road tolls are a way of life, new ones are generally met with a lot of verbal opposition but as time passes people come to accept them.
Also has Olivia said the cost has to be balanced against time, wear and tear, fuel consumption etc. Personally I use the toll roads on the CDS, much easier than negotiating a roundabout every few hundred meters.
The main problem appears to be the method of administering these charges, in particular the way tourists can pay the tolls and I believe it will be the tourists who will eventually dictate the payment methods available.
The loss of tourist tolls will be minimal but the loss of tourist money into the wider economy could have a major impact on the Algarve and it’s businesses and therefore this will have to be addressed.

EsuriJohn

I do not include any cost other than direct cost so almost no oil a little tyre wear and 1/6 tank of diesel about 10ltr at around €1.23 so I guess about €13 each way. The use of the EN125 would be much slower so not as much diesel used so cost about the same. Toll charges would appear to be about €7.

bigglesafloat

Well said FredB. If the system comes into force in 1 year we will have all forgotten about the tolls. At least todays residents have a choice of road to use - we oldies only had the EN125 and it was a major journey from Faro to Gibralter (not the 3.5 hours you can do it in today). Maybe some of the businesses on the EN125 will flourish with some extra trade. Is the VR -Ayamonte ferry still running ?