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Police on fsw list? Or not?

Police on fsw list? Or not?

Old Sep 20th 2014, 1:42 pm
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Default Police on fsw list? Or not?

Hi, I came across an old thread on this forum where someone stated that police officers were once on the list of required occupations in canada back in 2008.. Or prior to February 2008.

So back then, a uk trained/serving officer could apply for immigration even without a job offer/sponsorship?

Hope someone could possibly clarify this.

Thanks

Last edited by Kaylawayla; Sep 20th 2014 at 1:49 pm.
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Old Sep 20th 2014, 11:44 pm
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Default Re: Police on fsw list? Or not?

Hi

Originally Posted by Kaylawayla View Post
Hi, I came across an old thread on this forum where someone stated that police officers were once on the list of required occupations in canada back in 2008.. Or prior to February 2008.

So back then, a uk trained/serving officer could apply for immigration even without a job offer/sponsorship?

Hope someone could possibly clarify this.

Thanks
There was no "list" as such prior to 2008. You just had to have job that was skilled in NOC A, B or O to apply.
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Old Sep 22nd 2014, 10:22 am
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Default Re: Police on fsw list? Or not?

Originally Posted by PMM View Post
Hi



There was no "list" as such prior to 2008. You just had to have job that was skilled in NOC A, B or O to apply.
Hi, thanks for your reply.

Do you mean "you just had to have a job" as in a job offer in Canada? or could a uk police officer, even without a job offer apply for immigration?

(I know this may be irrelevant to what is current, just curious )


Thanks
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Old Sep 22nd 2014, 11:29 am
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Default Re: Police on fsw list? Or not?

Originally Posted by Kaylawayla View Post
Do you mean "you just had to have a job" as in a job offer in Canada? or could a uk police officer, even without a job offer apply for immigration?
No job offer was needed. Prior to 'the list' being introduced in 2008, all you need was 'skilled' (Level A, O or B) work experience, and at least 67 points (plus the usual i.e. no healthcare issues, enough funds etc). There was no requirement for a job offer or a job on a list of eligible occupations.

The whole system was changed because so many people applied that it created a huge backlog (processing times were 5 years + and even worse for other countries), plus with the recession there just wasn't the economic need for as many foreign workers, unless they were in specific occupations that were lacking people. Hence 'the list' was introduced.

So yes, police officers could have applied for PR prior to the system being overhauled in 2008.

HTH.
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Old Sep 22nd 2014, 3:17 pm
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Default Re: Police on fsw list? Or not?

Originally Posted by christmasoompa View Post
No job offer was needed. Prior to 'the list' being introduced in 2008, all you need was 'skilled' (Level A, O or B) work experience, and at least 67 points (plus the usual i.e. no healthcare issues, enough funds etc). There was no requirement for a job offer or a job on a list of eligible occupations.

The whole system was changed because so many people applied that it created a huge backlog (processing times were 5 years + and even worse for other countries), plus with the recession there just wasn't the economic need for as many foreign workers, unless they were in specific occupations that were lacking people. Hence 'the list' was introduced.

So yes, police officers could have applied for PR prior to the system being overhauled in 2008.

HTH.
Wow. I wasn't aware of the history of it all (immigration)

Although it obviously created an immense backlog (with cic's record im not surprised) it would have made things alot simpler. In that case, not only myself, but also my husband would have been eligible.

Thanks for your replies
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Old Sep 22nd 2014, 3:26 pm
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Default Re: Police on fsw list? Or not?

Originally Posted by Kaylawayla View Post
Although it obviously created an immense backlog (with cic's record im not surprised) it would have made things alot simpler. In that case, not only myself, but also my husband would have been eligible.
Yes, but by now you'd have a decade or more to wait for PR (nothing to do with CIC - who I think do the best they can with the staff they can have - but just sheer numbers of applications). And to be blunt, if you don't currently have jobs on 'the list' then Canada wouldn't have needed you and you'd have potentially spent a long time searching for any work.

With so many Canadians out of work, there just wasn't the same need for foreign workers, even skilled ones, so having the FSW program open to anybody vaguely qualified and experienced meant too many workers for too few jobs.

So introducing 'the list' made perfect economic sense at that time, to ensure that only workers actually needed could apply for PR without a job offer.

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Old Sep 23rd 2014, 9:33 am
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Default Re: Police on fsw list? Or not?

Originally Posted by christmasoompa View Post
Yes, but by now you'd have a decade or more to wait for PR (nothing to do with CIC - who I think do the best they can with the staff they can have - but just sheer numbers of applications). And to be blunt, if you don't currently have jobs on 'the list' then Canada wouldn't have needed you and you'd have potentially spent a long time searching for any work.

With so many Canadians out of work, there just wasn't the same need for foreign workers, even skilled ones, so having the FSW program open to anybody vaguely qualified and experienced meant too many workers for too few jobs.

So introducing 'the list' made perfect economic sense at that time, to ensure that only workers actually needed could apply for PR without a job offer.

Yeah I fully agree that creating a list made sense.

I suppose my wording of 'making it simpler' was wrong.

What I mean is that the old way may at least have prevented the many uncertainties and stress such as "Will my skill be on the list this year?" "I have to hurry and get my app in before my quota fills up" "have I wasted more time + money?" etc etc

Also, my husband and I have been pursuing immigration since 2008, even with the new list, and even having a skill in demand..

So waiting the decade is no improvement no matter what system is in place lol
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Old Sep 23rd 2014, 11:13 am
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Default Re: Police on fsw list? Or not?

Originally Posted by Kaylawayla View Post
What I mean is that the old way may at least have prevented the many uncertainties and stress such as "Will my skill be on the list this year?" "I have to hurry and get my app in before my quota fills up" "have I wasted more time + money?" etc etc
True, although it would only create new uncertainties (when will we finally get the visa, will our children still be classed as dependents in a decades time, will we actually find any jobs when we do finally move to Canada etc!).

Originally Posted by Kaylawayla View Post
Also, my husband and I have been pursuing immigration since 2008, even with the new list, and even having a skill in demand..
But with respect to you, there must be a reason on your part for that, as you could have moved much sooner if you'd wanted to? If your job is in demand, then you could have got a TWP, or you could have applied under a previous FSW quota, or you could have got a visa where no job offer was required etc, etc. If you've only just applied after 6 years, then presumably that was your choice?
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Old Sep 23rd 2014, 2:16 pm
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Default Re: Police on fsw list? Or not?

Originally Posted by christmasoompa View Post
True, although it would only create new uncertainties (when will we finally get the visa, will our children still be classed as dependents in a decades time, will we actually find any jobs when we do finally move to Canada etc!).


But with respect to you, there must be a reason on your part for that, as you could have moved much sooner if you'd wanted to? If your job is in demand, then you could have got a TWP, or you could have applied under a previous FSW quota, or you could have got a visa where no job offer was required etc, etc. If you've only just applied after 6 years, then presumably that was your choice?

Well, all these 'new' uncertainties are still present even with the new list.. As well as all the others...

In short, we have applied for immigration via the FSW ( the only realistic option) several times. Its NOT been through a lack of trying..

Being a Registered Nurse, it is not a simple process even if you do eventually get accepted for PR. Im sure there has been many nurses on here stating the same over the years, which im sure you are aware of by being a moderator.

If I am wrong though, I would be more than happy for you to tell me how to go about it? i.e. "get a TWP, get a visa without job offer" ?
Maybe our knowledge on the secret 'loop holes' is scarce?

I dont know what else we can research either on our own, asking questions on this forum, and even with immigration consultants at shows etc? (thats another story)

Any other expert help from yourself on how a Nurse can emigrate would be appreciated.

Thanks

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Old Sep 23rd 2014, 3:44 pm
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Default Re: Police on fsw list? Or not?

Originally Posted by Kaylawayla View Post
In short, we have applied for immigration via the FSW ( the only realistic option) several times. Its NOT been through a lack of trying..
I would disagree with it being the only realistic option, it's one of many, but not the only one ,as you have seen from responses on your previous threads.

Out of interest, why FSW several times, what happened to your previous apps?

Originally Posted by Kaylawayla View Post
Being a Registered Nurse, it is not a simple process even if you do eventually get accepted for PR. Im sure there has been many nurses on here stating the same over the years, which im sure you are aware of by being a moderator.
I'm well aware of that, but getting PR and getting licensed to work are two separate things, I'm only referring to the visa process.

Originally Posted by Kaylawayla View Post

If I am wrong though, I would be more than happy for you to tell me how to go about it? i.e. "get a TWP, get a visa without job offer" ?
Maybe our knowledge on the secret 'loop holes' is scarce?
A TWP I'm sure is self-explanatory, there are many nurses on the forum that have gone over on TWP's in the past few years, especially when nurses were taken off 'the list'.

And visas without job offers via various province's PNP's, such as the NS Community Identified Stream, where you just had to visit once and then got nominated for PR via the PNP - no job offer or job on a certain list required. That was scrapped last year, but MB has a similar program, and both have been in existence since prior to 2008. NS has replaced the CIS with the Regional Labour Market Demand stream and nurses are on that list (no job offer required). SK also has a stream allowing skilled workers to get PR without requiring a job offer.

All of these PNP routes were mentioned back to you in February this year in a previous thread. And in another thread you were also looking at a study permit, which is another good route to PR if you have a partner that could get a skilled job whilst on an open work permit? So as you knew about all of these visa options previously but didn't pursue them, so I assumed there was a reason on your part for that?

Originally Posted by Kaylawayla View Post
I dont know what else we can research either on our own, asking questions on this forum, and even with immigration consultants at shows etc? (thats another story)
No need to research anything else, there are various options but they're all set out in the Wiki, and above.

Hopefully though, you won't need one of the other visa routes if you've applied under the FSW this year, as long as you got your app in in plenty of time then you should be fine.

Best of luck.

Last edited by christmasoompa; Sep 23rd 2014 at 3:54 pm.
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Old Sep 24th 2014, 2:39 pm
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Default Re: Police on fsw list? Or not?

Originally Posted by christmasoompa View Post
I would disagree with it being the only realistic option, it's one of many, but not the only one ,as you have seen from responses on your previous threads.

Out of interest, why FSW several times, what happened to your previous apps?

I'm well aware of that, but getting PR and getting licensed to work are two separate things, I'm only referring to the visa process.

A TWP I'm sure is self-explanatory, there are many nurses on the forum that have gone over on TWP's in the past few years, especially when nurses were taken off 'the list'.

And visas without job offers via various province's PNP's, such as the NS Community Identified Stream, where you just had to visit once and then got nominated for PR via the PNP - no job offer or job on a certain list required. That was scrapped last year, but MB has a similar program, and both have been in existence since prior to 2008. NS has replaced the CIS with the Regional Labour Market Demand stream and nurses are on that list (no job offer required). SK also has a stream allowing skilled workers to get PR without requiring a job offer.

All of these PNP routes were mentioned back to you in February this year in a previous thread. And in another thread you were also looking at a study permit, which is another good route to PR if you have a partner that could get a skilled job whilst on an open work permit? So as you knew about all of these visa options previously but didn't pursue them, so I assumed there was a reason on your part for that?
No need to research anything else, there are various options but they're all set out in the Wiki, and above.

Hopefully though, you won't need one of the other visa routes if you've applied under the FSW this year, as long as you got your app in in plenty of time then you should be fine.

Best of luck.
Hi,
Yes lets hope that this years fsw application is successful. There's only so long my husband and I can feel left in limbo. (rightly or wrongly certain things like my husbands decision making in regards to his career have been affected with our immigration plans)

But I again refer to my previous comments, and feelings about the whole immigration process. Why should a so called in demand skilled worker even be 'hoping' that their application is 'fine' ? In terms of initial acceptance anyway? Either Canada needs us, or they don't? why make it SO uncertain and unnecessarily stressful. (I do accept there will always be an element stress involved)
And why do they make it SO difficult for Nurses? (I shall go into more detail of our experiences with that later)

You ask "why fsw several times?" Well FSW is our preferred option. As it would give myself AND my husband PR straight away. Which would give him the ability to go for certain jobs in his line work (Emergency Services)

So here are our past experiences:

Nursing Job offer in Alberta in Nov 2008.
Job offer withdrawn in May 2010 - due to economical downturn
Applied for FSW in 2011 - declined / quota full
Had forms ready for FSW in 2012 - Immigration 'closed'? (to sort out backlog)
Had forms ready for FSW in 2013 - Nursing off the 'list'
Applied for NS Regional Labour M scheme April 2014 - No word back
Applied for FSW July 2014 - waiting...

These experiences are in conjunction with myself flying over to Alberta in 2009to sit assessments, (Committing extra study and expense)

You imply from your previous comments in this thread that it has been our choice to not pursue 'all the options' available to us.
Well as you can see above we HAVE been trying over the years.

And if you want to look at my other threads, where I have investigated 'other routes in' then you will see that even you yourself said
"As a Nurse, the only obvious options are FSW, TWP or PNP"

In regards to the Study Permit option we looked into for example, you stated
"If you're only doing it to get in to Canada I don't see the point" ??

I appreciate there is other ways for people to 'get in'. I.e. MB / Saskatchewan PNP (but even these have criteria when you scratch the surface. Such as, NS only accepts 150? )

Laying our cards on the table, yes we have had 'dream' of immigrating to Canada. But we don't want to uproot our family just anywhere.
We have to choose somewhere that ticks all the boxes in terms of employment and lifestyle etc. (Im sure most people are the same?)
So we chose Ontario, why? I had past relations there, we married/honeymooned there, there seems to be a host of 'cities' there for employment options for myself and also my husband, direct flights from the UK etc

Just incase you weren't aware of the unnecessary stress/roadblocks with Nursing, and maybe explain a little why we can get so frustrated with immigration..

As a 'in demand' Registered Nurse, with 6+ years experience in various settings and Bachelor Degree, this is what we have to do:

-Register with CNO (College of Nursing Ontario) = $550
-Sit the OSCE (Exam in Canada) = $200
-Do further training / courses as required (following results of exam) But here's the clanger!! After I phoned CNO to try get some questions cleared up, the person couldn't even tell me where I would sit this further training?...
She couldn't clarify if I would be required to go to college base courses in Canada or here in the UK?..
Or how long they would be?..

How is anyone, especially with two young children supposed to plan anything with that?

Can you see and understand a little as to why in my posts I may seem negative towards CIC and the whole process in particular?


Last edited by Kaylawayla; Sep 24th 2014 at 3:23 pm.
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Old Sep 24th 2014, 3:41 pm
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Default Re: Police on fsw list? Or not?

Originally Posted by Kaylawayla View Post
Yes lets hope that this years fsw application is successful.


Originally Posted by Kaylawayla View Post
You ask "why fsw several times?" Well FSW is our preferred option. As it would give myself AND my husband PR straight away.
Many other visa routes, such as the PNP, would have done that too though?

Originally Posted by Kaylawayla View Post
Nursing Job offer in Alberta in Nov 2008.
Job offer withdrawn in May 2010 - due to economical downturn
What happened in the 18 months between the offer and it being withdrawn, why weren't you already out there working by then?

Originally Posted by Kaylawayla View Post
Applied for FSW in 2011 - declined / quota full
Had forms ready for FSW in 2012 - Immigration 'closed'? (to sort out backlog)
Had forms ready for FSW in 2013 - Nursing off the 'list'


Originally Posted by Kaylawayla View Post
Applied for NS Regional Labour M scheme April 2014 - No word back
Not heard back? You should have been nominated by now and be able to be over there on your open work permits. Have you not heard anything at all? The quota was met at the end of April, but even if your app was received after this date you should have had it sent back by now?

Originally Posted by Kaylawayla View Post
You imply from your previous comments in this thread that it has been our choice to not pursue 'all the options' available to us.
Well as you can see above we HAVE been trying over the years.

And if you want to look at my other threads, where I have investigated 'other routes in' then you will see that even you yourself said
"As a Nurse, the only obvious options are FSW, TWP or PNP"
Absolutely, but you seem to have only focused on the FSW and prior to this year, not considered a TWP or PNP app? Iirc, you did admit to having tunnel vision where the FSW is concerned, but unfortunately it's meant that you have missed other visa opportunities.

Originally Posted by Kaylawayla View Post
In regards to the Study Permit option we looked into for example, you stated
"If you're only doing it to get in to Canada I don't see the point" ??
Yes, but you (or I think it was your husband?) said that you did want to do further studies anyway, so therefore it would have been a great option.

Originally Posted by Kaylawayla View Post
I appreciate there is other ways for people to 'get in'. I.e. MB / Saskatchewan PNP (but even these have criteria when you scratch the surface. Such as, NS only accepts 150? )
Yes, but it took 4 months to get those 150 people, so it's not like it goes in a matter of days as with other categories or certain NOCs in the FSW program.

Originally Posted by Kaylawayla View Post
Laying our cards on the table, yes we have had 'dream' of immigrating to Canada. But we don't want to uproot our family just anywhere.
We have to choose somewhere that ticks all the boxes in terms of employment and lifestyle etc. (Im sure most people are the same?)
So we chose Ontario, why? I had past relations there, we married/honeymooned there, there seems to be a host of 'cities' there for employment options for myself and also my husband, direct flights from the UK etc
I get that, and if Ontario is the only place you'd live, then focusing on a FSW visa (or TWP) does make more sense than other provinces PNP's.

Originally Posted by Kaylawayla View Post
Just incase you weren't aware of the unnecessary stress/roadblocks with Nursing, and maybe explain a little why we can get so frustrated with immigration..
None of those things have anything to do with immigration or CIC though? CIC doesn't require you to jump through those hoops, it's not a visa related issue?

Originally Posted by Kaylawayla View Post
How is anyone, especially with two young children supposed to plan anything with that?

Can you see and understand a little as to why in my posts I may seem negative towards CIC and the whole process in particular?
As said above, your nursing frustrations have absolutely nothing to do with CIC, and although you've missed out on the FSW previously that's also not really CIC's fault.

I should perhaps explain that I'm looking at this from the point of view that somebody that spent several years working for an immigration consultant, and one part of my job was doing visa assessments and finding routes in to Canada for people. So I see various options that have been available to you but which you've discounted for various reasons, and can't understand the focus on the FSW.

But it's been your choice to not look at other provinces etc, and I do get that, and I also do get how frustrating it must be to have been waiting for so long. I just wanted to explain why I didn't understand why you'd limited yourself to the one visa route.

But I wish you the best of luck with this FSW app, hopefully you've got in before the quota. When did you send it? As long as it was within the first few weeks of the program reopening you should be fine.
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Old Sep 24th 2014, 9:37 pm
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Default Re: Police on fsw list? Or not?

Originally Posted by christmasoompa View Post


What happened in the 18 months between the offer and it being withdrawn, why weren't you already out there working by then?

What happened exactly in regards to my wifes job im not 100% sure. What I do know is the communications werent too great. She committed alot of her time to studying for the exam, which she flew to Calgary for.

If I remember right, PNP through Alberta didnt give me as a spouse PR. I was to get an open work permit.


Not heard back? You should have been nominated by now and be able to be over there on your open work permits. Have you not heard anything at all?
Nope, not heard a thing. No email, no app sent back in the post.

Absolutely, but you seem to have only focused on the FSW and prior to this year, not considered a TWP or PNP app? Iirc, you did admit to having tunnel vision where the FSW is concerned, but unfortunately it's meant that you have missed other visa opportunities.

Yes, we may have been guilty of a little tunnel vision with FSW. But that may be part due to being told, and being directed by the CIC website (official immigration source) that since my wife was on 'a list' and with a 'in demand' skill then that was the way to go.
Also, due to our past experience with Alberta PNP, we knew that way did not give me PR status immediately. Which since Aug 2010 (when we had our 1st child) no longer fully suited us.
We also didnt previously look at other provinces because well, each province is pretty much a country on its own lol. One province no doubt can/will give us a completely different experience than the other.
We have to try somehow to narrow our search down to at least 2, possibly 3 and focus on them. (Ontario, Alberta, Nova Scotia)
We have 2 kids to consider now, and we shouldnt need to accept second choice options, i.e. Im not really in the mind frame anymore that 'anywhere in Canada will do'



Yes, but you (or I think it was your husband?) said that you did want to do further studies anyway, so therefore it would have been a great option.

I personally wouldnt mind starting further studies. But thats the restless side of me coming out. I am willing to quit my career in the Fire Service and emigrate / start again in Canada. (Fire Service/Border Security/Prison Officer/Police = the reason why this thread is here lol)
We enquired about the study permit route. But is that really an option for us? with 2 kids aged 2 + 4. If I am studying all day, all week. My wife watches the kids, where is the wage coming from?



None of those things have anything to do with immigration or CIC though? CIC doesn't require you to jump through those hoops, it's not a visa related issue?

No its not directly a visa issue. But it is part of the whole immigration fiasco.
I agree with my wifes feelings on this in that the whole experience has been extremely frustrating and disheartening.
The combination of dealing with CIC, which can be a marathon on its own, in our experience, plus the extra Nurses have to do, no wonder people give up.


As said above, your nursing frustrations have absolutely nothing to do with CIC, and although you've missed out on the FSW previously that's also not really CIC's fault.

With respect. It is CIC's fault that they let themselves get into such a mess with the years of backlogs and applications that they had to close down immigration to sort themselves out!
But id like to clarify, our anger/ frustration isnt solely with CIC. But with Canada/ the nursing bodies. They DONT make it easy for internationally trained nurses. Why on earth for example, cant they give them/us simple direction and information such as where any further courses will take place??


When did you send it? As long as it was within the first few weeks of the program reopening you should be fine.
Well it was received by CIC on 10th July. I honestly do not hold out much hope to be honest. The only positive thing is at least they have increased the numbers to fill the quota.
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