tim010

We're not splitting hairs here as quite simply your information was incorrect as an £80 fixed penalty is not a conviction. I've made my point so will not comment further and if you don't agree we'll have to agree to disagree

Tim

simon_cassie

licinius within your two examples you only know what the press have released and 99% of the time it is disjointed.

If you think this country is bad YOU go and live were PACE doesnt exist and see what kind of treatment you receive. You have disturbed views if you think urinating in the street is ok £80 is light i can think of other offences i would consider crim/dam (shop door) exposure and alike. Sorry i dont like taking my kids to the shops and smelling urine in the door way. If you commit minor crime in the states I think you get more than a ticket.

Reference - Chanting MOATS name it could easily be one of their family he could have shot some people do have very worrying mind sets. Then again it is the price we pay for free speech.

Si

licinius

Steve, you must've received lectures at some stage when you have been told how people often resort to personal slurs/insults when they are losing an argument or being backed up against the wall?

You said you could give me examples of police who are wrongly convicted, but the one you have quoted is none specific. Please provide more detailed information so I can properly research the case in order to form my own opinion. But first let me guess, did this sergeant witness an attack and take no action, or did he intervene, protecting the victim & reporting the assailants? I'm guessing this bent copper (if he hasn't reported it then yes he's bent) has not carried out his duty of protecting the public & has only being found out when the matter was investigated later. In which case damn right he should be locked up! As should anybody who aids & abets police corruption.

You and your fellow colleagues have made frequent suggestions of my hatred for the police, would you care to copy & paste any comments I've made to that nature. Since when has criticism being the same as hatred? I criticise my football team, even the woman in my life when she says something stupid, does that really mean that I hate them???????? Perhaps a year at evening school studying the English language would be a good idea.

I know full well you're under scrutiny, why is that deemed necessary when apparantly you have the support of the majority???

It's a good job your not in the military Steve, your attention to detail (rather lack of it) along with you lack of restraint (demonstrated by your blind rants & personal slurs) mean your tour of duty in Afghanistan would be very short indeed. When did I say I'd only lived in the UK for 2 years? I'd love to come up against you in the courtroom Steven, something tells me you'd be muttering & stuttering prime time. I actually said 'my last 2 years', apart from business commitments I left the UK 30 months ago.

Here are a couple of letters for you based purely on personal experience........ obviously as they were addressed to me & not as you love to believe based upon the media. Incidentally, why are the media all against you as well? Do you go home to your wife each night & compalin about the bullies in society?

This is the department who are supposed to investigate police corruption yet here they are being caught out lying to protect their colleagues, who incidentally co-exist alongside you Steven. You know the police are required to collect ALL relevent evidence regardless of whether it aids their case or in this case, impedes it. the disclosure officer didn't want to get CCTV footage (can you guess why) & the companies concerned wouldn't release it the general public (moi)........... and yet you all claim the legal system favours the defendent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

licinius

Christopher Alder, a black ex paratrooper who served his country during the Falklands war, was seen calmly climbing into the back of a police van. When he got to the station CCTV footage showed him being dragged out of the van unconscious with his trousers around his ankles. He was dragged into the custody suite & dumped on the floor. On realising he was dead his murderers are clearly heard making monkey noises.

I've seen this foootage myself so please explain which bit is disjointed? What is disjointed is that these murdering scum got paid off!

As for other countries, I live in Spain. I wish British police were modelled on the Spanish, how much better the UK would be then. I've travelled the world & visited places like Tel Aviv, Moscow, Macedonia, Zagreb, Lithuania, Belarus, Warsaw... ( I could go on but I won't), tell me Simon, does pace exist in any of those countries? You can't live & let live in Britain, someone wants to interfere with you where ever you go. That is not the case with any of the countries listed above.

When did I say urinating in the street was ok? Please don't try & make me look bad by making stuff up, this isn't a courtroom remember. No wonder the police do lose so many cases, if you lose track just following this thread then how can you [possibkly be expected to keep up with a case that drags on for a few months.

licinius

the next time you dish one of these out Tim will you tell the person that by accepting it they will have a criminal record? Or will you continue to lie & say it's just a fine & goes no further. Yes you are splitting hairs over terminology so we won't agree to disagree.

tim010

Check my posts mate....I simply challenged your misinformation you were providing as to it being a conviction when it isn't. Keep digging though as this thread is quite entertaining on a Sunday evening!!!

Tim

licinius

So what is it then? Feel free to educate me, what has to happen in order to get a criminal record in the UK? As for misinformation, what do you tell people when collecting these taxes? It's a shame you waste your Sundays in the way, I'm working (well on pay anyway) but certainly wouldn't be entertaining you if I was at home!

tim010

Read this link

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/police/...otices/212291/

I think where it gets confusing is that CRB checks are different to proper police checks and bring up a lot more information anyway. A full disclosure CRB check "will" show a penalty notice but they also show anytime you have dealt with the police as a victim/witness/suspect.

In terms of whether a PND is a criminal record that is open to interpretation. I've only commented on this thread in regards to whether it is a conviction which I have proved from several sources it's not. I don't interpret it as a "criminal record" but how do you define what a criminal record is??

Tim

tim010

What was it you said earlier to Steve regarding resorting to personal insults???? Losing the argument so resort to that do you???

Tim

licinius

Apologies if that comes across as personal, off topic but I believe people settle for too little nowadays & are happy to sit around bored. I'm semi retired so will be off work for 2 weeks after today. So you'll have to wait until then for further replies x

StuArc

And friends/colleagues seemed bewildered when I stated my intention to emigrate to Canada.

I also find it interesting that 'licinius' passes judgement upon the Police here, yet lives abroad!?!?!?

I know where I would rather be a copper. Simply because we have no backing here (ROAL MOAT FACEBOOK TRUIBUTES, IPCC CRITICISM OF THE LAWYER SHOT IN LONDON), politicians and senior Officers are weak as a cup of cold piss and the law abiding puublic NEVER get the service they deserve. How many coppers on here (UK) have soent more time transporting released prisoners because of 'DUTY TO CARE'
If I had my way, CAPITAL PUNISHMENT would be mandatory for sex crimes against children, murderers and rapists.
PACE would be redrafted to allow less choice for the defendant and more for Police and the SAFER DETENTION MANUAL revised alongwith it.

There is a serious lack of understanding here and I would suggest licinius, that perhaps you focus your immense legal trainaing and study of jurispudence, to providing a more balanced view of how policing REALLY here is the UK. Hope the weather is nice by your pool - I hope those drug barons and serious crime perpertrators/strategists who have fled here for Spain, don't share a nearby residence with you!!

Bomber Harris

This post is primarily intended for the police officers on this thread, I am neither a policeman nor a lawyer but I do have experience of the legal process/court environment and have friends/acquaintances in these professions.
Whilst I can understand the relief you must experience by posting on these forums as an escape from the constraints placed upon you in your working lives I would ask you to consider the following before being drawn further by posters whose only intention seems to be to antagonise you in order that they can feel justified in their belief that all policeman are corrupt. This is not a criticism of those who have posted, with everything you have to put up with I think you’ve earned the right to respond, it is just food for thought.
If you read old posts by the same person you will see he points out that his user name, Licinius, was a Roman Emperor after having failed in his own instructions to read what is written and read the word licentious as meaning cough syrup. Years ago those who thought they were Emperors used to be placed in mental institutions, perhaps this is just another example of the failings of the care in the community initiative.
The wannabe emperor works on oil rigs, if you were to follow his example of tarring all with the same brush you might feel justified, post BP rig disaster, in accusing this person of being a polluter and killer of wildlife.
All the police officers I know take pride in their work; apparently not something the poster does as they have stated that they are posting on this thread whilst at work. You have to wonder if such behaviour might have been partially responsible for the BP fiasco in that the fault was not responded to in a timely manner to prevent the disaster, was the person responsible for monitoring the alarms too busy surfing the internet instead of doing what he was being paid to do?
The poster would appear to have a deep rooted dislike of the police as they feel compelled to post whenever an opportunity arises to criticise. I would doubt that anything you write would be able to change their mindset and by responding to them you are merely pandering to their needs. Might I suggest that you adopt the same behaviour as you would do when encountering such people in your duties, walk away and mutter under your breath. When I have met similar people throughout my life I have always found the word “wanker” worked for me.
By their own admission the poster was found guilty of the offence he claims was a ‘fit-up’. He wasn’t found not guilty on appeal, he was acquitted because of a procedural error under CIPA. You only have his claim that the video would have proved his innocence, without him or any of us having seen said video, it could equally have proven guilt, we will never know. They question why would they pursue the video if it didn’t prove their innocence, I would respond because of the knowledge from research they had done that they were aware it could never be released to an individual under current legislation.
The poster has not understood that the decision not to prosecute over the death of Ian Tomlinson was made not by the police but by the CPS who would have sought approval from the DPP for a murder prosecution. I know you are aware of this, but for the benefit of the poster, these people are nothing to do with the police. Is it not the police who have instigated disciplinary proceedings against Mr Tomlinson’s assailant, how is that another police ‘cover-up’?
A Facebook page attracted 30,000 people – that hardly counts as a majority, the population of the world is in excess of 6 Billion. I would doubt that all 30,000 visitors were in support of the killer, some would visit just to see how many sick bastards were in support of him. Newcastle United –v- Carlisle match with fans shouting Moat’s name, everyone knows that a percentage of people who attend football matches are mindless morons whose only intent is to cause trouble. Neither of their examples can disprove the fact that the majority of UK residents support the police.
The poster has said that they were stopped 7 times in 2 years. My traffic officer friend points out that this is most likely to occur when either the person is driving something that looks like a wreck, or is driving like an idiot. You chose which one you think it is.
They wrote “It's a good job your not in the military Steve, your attention to detail (rather lack of it) along with you lack of restraint (demonstrated by your blind rants & personal slurs) mean your tour of duty in Afghanistan would be very short indeed.” Does that not show that they have the same contempt for those soldiers who have lost their lives in Afghanistan as it suggests they did so by lack of attention and restraint. Ask yourself this, do they actually have positive thoughts about anyone other than themselves?
I would be very surprised if the poster did not allow his prejudices to manifest themselves when actually speaking face to face with UK police officers, I doubt if he would think so highly of Spanish officers if he spoke to them in the same way as they would most likely kick the crap out of him, after all they do have a history of dishing out such beatings.
Although I expect the wannabe emperor will dissect my post I will not be responding to them as I would rather stick hot pins in my eyes than give them the soapbox they seek in order for them to perpetuate their personal myths.
Having expressed my opinion I wish you all a safe career in the knowledge that you will continue to protect and serve us no matter how many morons you encounter.

SDDep

Not to nit pick..but...I'm guessing you meant world...

Wholeheartedly agree with you..well said.

Bomber Harris

Well spotted, yes the World, now corrected, thanks.

dreadsoc

Hi Bomber

Wow, what a well written and well thought out post. Hope to see more from you on here.
As you will see, I tried to talk some balanced sense with 'the Emperor', but soon gave up when it was clear that this was be a fruitless exercise !!
Thanks for your support.

Dread - x