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New Zealand plumbers wife saying Hi.

New Zealand plumbers wife saying Hi.

Old Jul 20th 2009, 7:29 am
  #76  
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Default Re: New Zealand plumbers wife saying Hi.

Originally Posted by jd24hrs View Post
hi bevs
by the way i ran a business in the uk for 18 yrs and apprentice trained passed city&guilds 2/3 ,acops trained also did NVQ level 2/3 also gas training 1 thrugh to 15 also was bosch boiler trained and the list goes on so i am an /plumber/gasengineer who isnt very good on computers .
as for not thinking about migrants do you know how bad it feels to be treated like a dumb plumber by this dumb system run by PHIL ROUTHAM just ask any body who knows thanks john 073774141
EErr. Sorry. I can read you are very upset.

You stated you were asked to do several years of coursework by the PGDB. Do you mean years or not?

We are migrants John , just like yourself. Been here for 5 years now . Started this 7 years ago. Husband is a time served UK plumber and gas-fitter with C&G 1 and 2 ( in 3 parts) , 4 years apprenticeship and a further one year of 'extras'. Also had CORGI with many modules. Solar accredited and decades in the trade. Also, just like you we ran our own small business.

Yes. We came here in 2004. We dealt with the PGDB back in 2003 .
We do know how it was with the PGDB back then and it was tough. No two ways about that. I told you already. I have screeched down the phone at the PGDB back then in 2003. . It isn't quite the same now. It has improved no end thank goodness. It needed to, as I have stated previously.

If you are a craftsman UK plumber and gasfitter, then there is no reason why you are not now registered.
What do you feel has been the stumbing block then.

ps
We are both dyslexic. Husband worse than me. I'm not much cop at computers either. I just do my best......slowly.
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Old Jul 20th 2009, 7:48 am
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Default Re: New Zealand plumbers wife saying Hi.

Originally Posted by jd24hrs View Post
hi bevs
by the way i ran a business in the uk for 18 yrs and apprentice trained passed city&guilds 2/3 ,acops trained also did NVQ level 2/3 also gas training 1 thrugh to 15 also was bosch boiler trained and the list goes on so i am an /plumber/gasengineer who isnt very good on computers .
as for not thinking about migrants do you know how bad it feels to be treated like a plumber by the NZ system
Yes. Of course. We are migrants.

About all this stuff above that you write about ?.

Can you please list exactly what UK quals and certs you have then as it is giving mixed messages. An UK , NVQ 3 , in modern terms should be perfectly adequate in the right circumstances and the right training.

What exactly have PGDB asked you to do? I note you have no PGDB license from looking at their website or have I got that wrong?.

Whether or not you ran a business is immaterial unless you look at a business visa.
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Old Jul 20th 2009, 9:18 am
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Default Re: New Zealand plumbers wife saying Hi.

Originally Posted by BEVS View Post
Yes. Of course. We are migrants.

About all this stuff above that you write about ?.

Can you please list exactly what UK quals and certs you have then as it is giving mixed messages. An UK , NVQ 3 , in modern terms should be perfectly adequate in the right circumstances and the right training.

What exactly have PGDB asked you to do? I note you have no PGDB license from looking at their website or have I got that wrong?.

Whether or not you ran a business is immaterial unless you look at a business visa.
HI bevs
im not angry with you im just upset that we are treated this way,Ive just finished working for mecbeths of taupo and he was under contract to pay my licence fees but as his lapsed he didnt so so I left his employment,I unfortunately feel that they should work by the rules in place as well as just us expats.anyway the problem is that they want$400 plus 3500 for gas 3500 plumbing after this i would be registered but this is no good for me as as it would take another 2yrs +more fees to become craftsman which could mean upto 5 yrs by the system in place this means i would have to work for someone else for this time and i have admit i didnt become self employed to work for someone else
Also I have to point out that I proved my quilifacation and experience with the imigration dept before I came, this is why i was given residence within 3months which I have to to say poor of this country to let me down in this way and john key and others agree like the auditor gens office.
did i tell you I am now writing for plumbers journal and im hoping to get a position on the plumbers boardby the way im not a wacko and like to talk to you or your hubby 073774141 by the way has your hubby submitted plumbers board consultation i hope so, we now need changes john
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Old Jul 22nd 2009, 2:11 am
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Default Re: New Zealand plumbers wife saying Hi.

Originally Posted by jd24hrs View Post
HI bevs
im not angry with you im just upset that we are treated this way,
Ive just finished working for mecbeths of taupo and he was under contract to pay my licence fees but as his lapsed he didnt so I left his employment.
We paid our own license fees this year. In other years the employers have paid them but this is recession so we do our bit to help ourselves.


Originally Posted by jd24hrs
I unfortunately feel that they should work by the rules in place as well as just us expats
To be honest I am not sure who you mean by this. Do you mean NZ employers following the PGDB Act of NZ or do you mean the procedure the PGDB has for overseas plumbers and gasfitters. Perhaps you mean both !
As I have suggested previously , this isn't just about the trade standards in New Zealand. The trade standard must also match that of Australia .

Originally Posted by jd24hrs
Anyway the problem is that they want$400 plus 3500 for gas 3500 plumbing after this I would be registered
Yes. This is the route that all overseas plumbers and gasfitters must take towards becoming PGDB registered. NO overseas plumbing or gasfitting qualification is totally recognised. You pay the fees , which I agree are very high , and take the 4 day course work , assessments and exams . This is not just about the standard of the overseas tradesman . This is to ensure that the overseas tradesman knows and understands about NZ plumbing, gasfitting and the rules /regs etc that go with this.

Originally Posted by jd24hrs
but this is no good for me as as it would take another 2yrs +more fees to become craftsman which could mean upto 5 yrs by the system in place this means i would have to work for someone else for this time and i have admit i didnt become self employed to work for someone else
Well yes. That's how it is for everyone. As you already know, we had our own small business in the UK. We came to NZ of our own free will and have been here for 5 years now. We knew what would be required before we came. It is a lot clearer now than it was back then. Believe me. You think this registrar ain't all that? You should have been on the receiving end of the previous one and her admin staff. Diplomacy and tact was not their thing. Clarity also passed them by.

An overseas plumber or gasfitter must sit the same 5 pgdb exams as the NZ homegrown. Yes. It can take years. No doubt about that.
This is not the only occupation where the migrant is 'busted back' to a lesser standard than they have actually attained.
Sparkies , policemen spring to mind.

Originally Posted by jd24hrs
Also I have to point out that I proved my qualification and experience with the immigration dept before I came, this is why i was given residence within 3months
That is not the same thing at all . As I explained before, you are talking about two seperate issues here. They are not intertwined. Although, NZIS does look to the PGDB for this trade , just as it does look to other NZ registered bodies for other occupations i.e. teachers, doctors, sparkies, policemen etc.
With immigration the migrant applying under a skilled migrant policy must prove that they have the skills for the occupation. That means work exp. and proof of overseas qualifications to the NZIS standard.
What you did was what all us skilled migrants do . We prove we have the actual skill and are not pretending to have the skill level required. That's all.
What you did was no different to what we did or any other skilled migrant. You do the PRper the NZIS policy , you gain PR.

The PGDB is something different entirely. Having come into the country as a skilled tradesman , you then must convert that overseas skill to that of the NZ standard. That is done by being examined under the NZ trade exams. Just because a tradesman has shown Immigration that they are trained and skilled at an overseas occupation on the list doesn't mean that the tradesman has all the necessary NZ skills & knowledge for NZ. That is why many occupations required registration etc.

Yes. I do think the approach from the PGDB is somewhat heavy handed and too costly, but them is the cards we, as migrants, are dealt with . Just like the sparkies, plods etc.
As I have previously stated, I feel that a fairer approach would be that the overseas craftsman standard tradsman is placed on a probationary license to work on the NZ tools - say one year - and after that they take assessments and exams which , if successful, leads to craftsman registration.

One thing that could be added to the PB\GDB website is a list of which overseas quals are acceptable towards registration. I know this couldn't be for all countries, but for the most common it should be possible. This would not be in place of the pre-assessment to check the paper quals but just an aid for the overseas tradsman to know what standard he/she needs to have.

As you say, to gain PR in this country at this trade, one must already be of craftsman standard . It is right that the standard is properly checked by the NZ trade here but logically it should lead to 'craftsman' not 'registered' & in a way that would doubly protect the NZ/Australian standard and Act .
Of course, there will be many political reasons why NZ employers and businessmen will not want overseas plumbers & gasfitters setting up in opposition business against them. For that matter , they aren't that keen on their homegrown attaining craftsman status. It's all about the status quo.
Yes. I agree it's an old boys network & I could name a fair few of these'old boys' .Thats New Zealand. There aren't many people /business here and they protect themselves just as we would do in their position. Yes. This does make something of a strangle hold position on the trade and the only way to change that is from the inside out. Become the crasftsman !

Having done that and set up a business though, one could imagine an 'Animal Farm' situation, with the new craftsmen business men protecting their own just as those that went before them did.

I've read some very simplistic ideas of late about what should and shouldn't happen about exams and licensing for this trade. None of which seem to take into consideration the wider picture to include sustainable business growth to employ people , Australia, improving standards, regulating against cowboys or even the law as it stands. someone actually wrote 'do away with the PGDB'. How daft is that ? It would only have to be replaced by another PGDB because it's about the PGD ACT which is law.

Yes. Some NZ homegrown tradesman are very anti overseas tradesmen. Just look at what some NZ homegrown tradesmen believe of the UK standard. Heck. NZ gasfitters here would faint if they had to pay for and do ACOPS for CORGI etc. They haven't a clue about real gas regulations.

[quote=jd24hrs]
which I have to to say poor of this country to let me down in this way and john key and others agree like the auditor gens office.[quote=jd24hrs]

The country has not let you down. You have PR. You are free to remain here and you are free to try for registration and craftsman in this trade. You are not bonded to remain in employment forever if you don't want that. Yes. It will cost money and hard work perhaps but you are free to do this.

If you mean the Auditors General Office reports on the Immigration Service, then I am familiar with them . For those hopeful migrants on the receiving end of NZIS poor decision making, then , yes, the NZIS has let them down. Perhaps their case officers should be independantly assessed and examined by a 'board' set up to do this to ensure a uniform standard !

If you mean the Independant Review of the PGDB operations back in 2006 then ,yes, the review deemed changes needed to be made and the whole of that PGDB board was sacked.
I stated back then, when is a sacking of a PGD boad chairman not a sacking ! Oh yes. When he gets to become the PGD registrar. I haven't changed my personal view about this. Sacked should have meant no more to do with the PGDB & I do feel it was an unwise decision to allow that appointment to be made. For some, perhaps within the ITO's etc there must have been a stumble of faith in the system.

Originally Posted by jd24hrs
did i tell you I am now writing for plumbers journal
Yes

Originally Posted by jd24hrs
and im hoping to get a position on the plumbers board
As you know, there is a review of the members of the PGDB every few years. Everyone is invited to apply to become a member of the board. Current members may be re-appointed.
The board members are apppointed ministerally.

Originally Posted by jd24hrs
by the way im not a wacko and like to talk to you or your hubby
I don't think you are a wacko as you put it. Not sure why you want to speak with us. We are just migrants in this trade, like yourself ,although we have been here longer.

Originally Posted by jd24hrs
by the way has your hubby submitted plumbers board consultation ..i hope so,
This consultation was commissioned in 2006 after the Armstrong independent review as part of an ongoing process & to engage those in the trade to have a voice. It is a requirement under the PGD Act that the board consult with the trade. So, yes, we have completed the Q & A and put forward our suggestions and thoughts as we see it.

Originally Posted by jd24hrs
we now need changes. john
I'm not sure what changes you are hoping for . This is a consulation about implimenting the PGDB Act of 2006. There doesn't seem to be much scope for sweeping changes.
Fees will still be levied . Competant based licensing will still happen . Overseas tradesmen will still be examined.

Anyway, good luck
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Old Jul 22nd 2009, 4:33 am
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Default Re: New Zealand plumbers wife saying Hi.

HI again
theres a new consultation at the moment and you should receive one through the post but i very much doubt it as most plumbers i know havent received one, the reason that routhan managed to stay after the sacking is that he wrote his own contract and had it signed of by his freind and out going chairman thanks john
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Old Jul 22nd 2009, 11:45 am
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Default Re: New Zealand plumbers wife saying Hi.

Originally Posted by jd24hrs View Post
HI again
theres a new consultation at the moment and you should receive one through the post but i very much doubt it as most plumbers i know havent received one, the reason that routhan managed to stay after the sacking is that he wrote his own contract and had it signed of by his freind and out going chairman thanks john
AArrrggghhh!

Yes. Of course there is a new consultation. This was scheduled back in 2006 . Please refer the Armstrong report.

We've had the booklet plus Q&A for several weeks now whilst we thought about it and the implications. It is possible to complete this online. One needs to also include the trade license number.
Most tradesmen we know have received one.
There has also been a txt as a reminder but not sure if this is kosher at this time but I will check. It is in my nature.

Board appointments are ministerial. As far as I know it isn't a 'working' contract . That is because it isn't a job. It pays a small remuneration of expenses and fees to attend. quite right too. Conflict of interests and all that........yes... I know ... conflict of interests and all that.
P.R. was the outgoing , sacked, chairperson. He was part of the sacked board FFS. I would suggest to you that it was part of an agreement that he go as Chairman amicably but could stay as acting registrar at that time , which then ended in him being actual registrar. It is wheels within wheels. Old boys network. Protecting their own. Damage limitation. As I said , this isn't just about the small fry and we are small fry, this is about a national trade industry and the viability of it being able to continue to sustain itself.

The one thing I have learnt about NZ is that there are very few people and so even fewer 'leaders'. It is quite tribal in this respect and this makes for a very different dynamic in all things. One needs to understand and feel how the dynamics work first before change can be even explored.

I am beginning to wonder about all this. You don't seem to know much about the system or the history or what is required by law and I mean this in the best possible way. It is just from your postings here.

However, I am beginning to love you for your passion about this We were the same first off before we got the feel of the place, it's systems, it's pathos, it's ways and it's very New Zealand way of being.

You want to make change ? Then learn about the system first. Become a craftsman on their terms so you understand the system inside out and upside down and then suggest positive change for all. You cannot make change from the outside in and , in fact, that would be insulting to the homegrown tradesmen here.

For us, as migrants, we feel we have been shortchanged somewhat. Just as you do.
Not by New Zealand or the Immigration Service but by the NZ plumbing and gasfitter trade here. That includes not just the PGDB but attitudes in general to overseas tradesmen. This isn't just a PGDB 'thing'. It is an NZ 'thing'.
I doubt one will ever get passed that. The country is too parochial and insular. They need to be to survive as a nation else they would be swamped by bigger and better maybe ...or maybe not.

I will just say this to you though, looking at your posts, that these are my words for BE. British Expats. If you use my words elsewhere, I want to know about that and I will take a dim view if I read my words as someone else's. Get my drift ?
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Old Jul 22nd 2009, 11:05 pm
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Default Re: New Zealand plumbers wife saying Hi.

ps

Re-reading some of my post this morning, I realise that it sounds a bit crabby. It was late .

I do feel for you , you know. So many of us migrants jump through huge hoops to be in our chosen new country. Still. That's the choice we made so we soldier on.

Good luck with your mission to bring changes to the NZ plumbing trade.

For what it is worth, I would like to see a brand new PGDB registrar brought on board & a new appointment is well overdue. That registrar should at least have some diplomacy about them. something which was lacking in the previous registrar and , it would seem, this one too.
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Old Aug 14th 2009, 4:10 am
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Default Re: New Zealand plumbers wife saying Hi.

Wow--it's been ages Bevs! But I stumbled onto this thread while googling the PGDB board meeting times.
Wait until you hear the latest for us.

As you know, we were forced to come on a visitor visa, find a job, apply for a limited license, take the $3500 migrant test, take the written test and wait. It's been almost a year and our PR is still on hold until OH gets the registration.
Well, they have failed to mail the results of the exam to the correct address--though I gave it to them 5 weeks before they mailed the exam results.
Assuming OH passed (still waiting for results but he felt very confident), he will be eligible to be registered. BUT must wait until the board meets again before they can approve his registration. Which is October.
Our work visas expire in October.

I don't believe we can renew our work visas because they have removed "plumber" from the Skill shortage list (on 2 July 2009).

Soooo--if we are lucky, we will have PR soon and life will continue as before.

If we are not lucky, or timing doesn't happen very precisely, we may very well find ourselves kicked out. NZIS has lately taken great pleasure at booting migrants out, it seems, to make more jobs for kiwis.

We have paid THOUSANDS of $$ thus far, uprooted our lives, abandoned our business in the US, etc and it may be for naught.
The children are in school here and love it. I hope that we will not be unceremoniously dumped.
Plus, the prospects of returning to the US in the current economic situation--with no home, no business, no job prospects and no money (after spending it all trying to get tested, registered, etc here)--seem absolutely DISMAL.

OH has been on call for the last 8 months--working 24/7. On the VERY low wages here, it has been necessary to survive. Plus, OH felt it was a great way to see lots of different types of "gear" and become accustomed to the differences in plumbing. He is an exceptionally hard worker. Very dedicated and very smart. We have given New Zealand 100% and I am hoping it all works out.
If anyone reads this and is religious in any way, I would really appreciate your prayers.
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Old Aug 14th 2009, 6:57 am
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Default Re: New Zealand plumbers wife saying Hi.

Hey you . I have wondered how you were fairing. Come into the NZ forum for a chat. Just start a plumbers groan thread and I'll find you.

The PGDB are s'posed to meet every six weeks.

Quotes from their own guidelines on the IQAS assessment stuff for overseas plumbers.

Applicant receives written notification and enclosed
registration application form.
The PGDB should be perfectly capable of emailing you the results as an attachment without further delay. If you get this result , bung it straight over to NZIS.

Applicant returns application form and prescribed payment. PGDB to
consider registration application at meeting held every 6
weeks

Once approved the PGDB issues a practising licence
As they are the cause of the delay, I do feel they should take responsibility. I'd take that straight to the Chairperson in no uncertain terms and ask that they do something about your registration application pronto because it is their cock up which may cause you severe hardship. In my mind there is nothing to stop each member of the board being emailed your husbands results and approving the registration.

To be honest, having walked on coals and jumped through burning hoops registratin should be automatically given following a successful full assessment. What else is there to consider after all

I'm not sure where you are with the emigration process mate. Do you have a part completed PR application on hold at NZIS then? i.e. You did the EOI and received an ITA but NZIS are holding PR until full PGDB registration takes place. I've never heard of such a thing before from anyone but if that is the case, then if that were me, I would be wanting to speak with the NZIS branch manager about why you were not offered a Work to Residence visa instead . In any case, I was under the impression that NZIS were OK re PR for a plumber as long as the would be migrant passed the pre-assessment giving them eligibility to take the full assessment AND had a practicing licence for a job within the trade.

From what you say though you have a one year temporary work permit which could be a bit of a worry given plumbers are no longer in shortage here.

Husband has been on short hours now for well over a month or more. He hasn't had a full weeks work in ages. Most all of the trades people we know are on short hours or have no work.

HHmm. As I said , come on into the NZ forum so we can all have a bit of a mull on your situation. You never know , someone out there may have been through the same thing re PR.

I'm thinking about the work permit expiry date situation and the options.

See you over in the NZ forum and I'll put my thinking head on. Two heads are better than one and a forum full is even better as there is more personal experience to draw from.
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Old Sep 5th 2009, 10:11 am
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Default Re: New Zealand plumbers wife saying Hi.

hi bevs, iam coming over to new zealand on the 2nd of march 2010. iam looking to do plumbing out there (if i can find a job) haha! iam qualified to nvq level 3 in plumbing heating and gas and trained with british gas. do you think in your knowlage i stand a good chance of getting a job? and i dont know if i should start the ball rolling and fill out the forms on the boards website? help me out please thanks tom.
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Old Sep 5th 2009, 10:47 am
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Default Re: New Zealand plumbers wife saying Hi.

Originally Posted by tomwestplumb View Post
hi bevs, iam coming over to new zealand on the 2nd of march 2010. iam looking to do plumbing out there (if i can find a job) haha! iam qualified to nvq level 3 in plumbing heating and gas and trained with british gas. do you think in your knowlage i stand a good chance of getting a job? and i dont know if i should start the ball rolling and fill out the forms on the boards website? help me out please thanks tom.
It is recession. I can't know if you can get a job offer. Plumbers are removed from all the shortages lists and gasfitter is on the immediate shortage list for certain parts of NZ.

If you are looking for plumbing only , then an NZ employer has to prove there is no NZ resident or citizen for that job. If it is for gas fitting only , then the NZ employer can offer you the job . I have to say that in this economic climate, you may be up against it my friend but it is only my opinion.

Regardless, if you seriously wish to emigrate to NZ via the SMC then you must go through the PGDB pre-assesment of your quals and work exp. You have no choice in this , with or with out a job offer..
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Old Sep 14th 2009, 5:22 pm
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Default Re: New Zealand plumbers wife saying Hi.

hi there,
i am a plumber gas engineer in the uk at the moment looking to move to new zealand... wont ask any big questions as your replies to previous questions have been more than helpful! i was just wondering if either yourself or your husband could reccomend any text books that would help me familiarise myself with nz codes, regs and general working practices before i get over there. if there is a book that the apprentices use for the course that would be ideal... just looking to get a step ahead before moving over!
thanks for all the work you have done on here you have made my life a lot easier!
jon
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Old Sep 15th 2009, 12:23 am
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Default Re: New Zealand plumbers wife saying Hi.

I was just wondering if either yourself or your husband could reccomend any text books that would help me familiarise myself with nz codes, regs and general working practices before i get over there. if there is a book that the apprentices use for the course that would be ideal
NZ codes, regs and working practices eh? Blimey ! You sound like an NZ Kiwi plumber already.

I do have an old list as it happens. Last time I put that up was to this thread 18 months ago. You maybe missed it.

I'll just check out the old links etc and come back to this thread with as best an update as I can make.
Husband is away at the mo. but we can check for an update with a couple of apprentices we know about what they are currently using to crib from.
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Old Sep 15th 2009, 4:29 pm
  #89  
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Smile Re: New Zealand plumbers wife saying Hi.

Originally Posted by BEVS View Post
NZ codes, regs and working practices eh? Blimey ! You sound like an NZ Kiwi plumber already.

I do have an old list as it happens. Last time I put that up was to this thread 18 months ago. You maybe missed it.

I'll just check out the old links etc and come back to this thread with as best an update as I can make.
Husband is away at the mo. but we can check for an update with a couple of apprentices we know about what they are currently using to crib from.
will have a look back through.. this thread is sooo long now.. dont know how you have time to give such great help!
thanks again jon
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Old Sep 15th 2009, 10:30 pm
  #90  
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Default Re: New Zealand plumbers wife saying Hi.

hi , im in aus but looked into nz in the early stages of moving, this is the best plumbing thread on all the sites mate, the info on here is second to none, keep it up bev.
john
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