Now leaving NZ
Nov 7th 2010, 2:39 am
#31
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 25
Re: Now leaving NZ
Hi - thanks for all the many posts, we welcome all points of view. It helps for a balanced argument. I agree that some things I originally mentioned are subject to personal experience and interperetation. There are generalized statements not necessarily true for all areas. However generalizations are necessary in order to keep the posts brief and to the point. I raise the points so that readers can then go ahead and think about these facts and research them before drawing their own conclusions. How you find NZ largely depends on where you came from. If you lived in a terrace in a deprived inner city area or even just an inner city area then many places in NZ seem marvelous, certainly after living in most areas of London. If, like us, you moved from a small peaceful Hamlet in Oxfordshire then NZ has a different impression on arrival.
With reference to comments by londonescapee, above, about having fresh drinking water. Yes we now have fresh water but didn't when we arrived, the water grade in our rental area was D, it was brown, lumpy and had swimming creatures. Dunedin City had the same water quality until not too long ago! Remember that most rural areas of NZ, including those very close to Cities, have similar poor water quality and generations have been raised drinking rain water collected from the gutter and stored for months. It is not filtered or treated. (We could argue whether treated or roof collected was better but this is long enough already.) This is not fresh drinking water and is a third world aspect, it contibutes to NZ's poor health record. This type of water supply is very common in NZ, most UK visitors and migrants are not aware of this.
Likewise all these 'rural' areas have no linked sewerage systems, they have septics tanks which are often old, leaky and not maintained. The grey water is flushed into the nearest gulley and goes into the sea or streams. This is a big problem with numerous areas on Otago harbour. The areas are residential and within 5 minutes of the CBD but have no effective sewerage disposal system. Pollution and unpleasant odours eminating from the harbour are a common complaint and have been in the ODT many times. The Council could do something about this but opts to spend well over $200 million NZD on a stadium instead. This is again a third world aspect, or at least less than first world. Yes there are many subjective points one can make but we are often blissfully unaware of what goes on around us and in our Country. This is also true of the UK, of course. It is down to individuals to take an interest in the bigger picture rather than the 'I'm alright Jack' attitude we often see, especially with migrants. How often do you hear 'I've done very well in NZ, thank you!'. Well what about the rest of the Country struggling in poverty? And don't forget that the poverty line in NZ is considerably lower than it is in the UK! Just a bit more food for thought!
With reference to comments by londonescapee, above, about having fresh drinking water. Yes we now have fresh water but didn't when we arrived, the water grade in our rental area was D, it was brown, lumpy and had swimming creatures. Dunedin City had the same water quality until not too long ago! Remember that most rural areas of NZ, including those very close to Cities, have similar poor water quality and generations have been raised drinking rain water collected from the gutter and stored for months. It is not filtered or treated. (We could argue whether treated or roof collected was better but this is long enough already.) This is not fresh drinking water and is a third world aspect, it contibutes to NZ's poor health record. This type of water supply is very common in NZ, most UK visitors and migrants are not aware of this.
Likewise all these 'rural' areas have no linked sewerage systems, they have septics tanks which are often old, leaky and not maintained. The grey water is flushed into the nearest gulley and goes into the sea or streams. This is a big problem with numerous areas on Otago harbour. The areas are residential and within 5 minutes of the CBD but have no effective sewerage disposal system. Pollution and unpleasant odours eminating from the harbour are a common complaint and have been in the ODT many times. The Council could do something about this but opts to spend well over $200 million NZD on a stadium instead. This is again a third world aspect, or at least less than first world. Yes there are many subjective points one can make but we are often blissfully unaware of what goes on around us and in our Country. This is also true of the UK, of course. It is down to individuals to take an interest in the bigger picture rather than the 'I'm alright Jack' attitude we often see, especially with migrants. How often do you hear 'I've done very well in NZ, thank you!'. Well what about the rest of the Country struggling in poverty? And don't forget that the poverty line in NZ is considerably lower than it is in the UK! Just a bit more food for thought!
Nov 7th 2010, 9:55 am
#32
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Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Tyldesley Manchester UK
Posts: 1,095
Re: Now leaving NZ
Boy racers exist everywhere in the world - particularly in the UK. Go and sit in any city centre most evenings and then come back with that same comment again. Insurance is compulsory in the UK - but how many people really have it? We've been hit before by people who have no insurance.
June
Nov 7th 2010, 10:08 am
#33
Life is what YOU make it.
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: Christchurch
Posts: 3,312
Re: Now leaving NZ
I agree, my daughter was hit by a none insured driver and had to claim off the Motor Insurance Bureau. I have been told all insurance companies have to pay into this and it puts your insurance up by approx £60 per year. The driver got away with a £100 fine for driving without insurance where's the justice in that. He is probably still driving about without it as well.
June
June
Nov 7th 2010, 10:30 am
#34
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Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Tyldesley Manchester UK
Posts: 1,095
Re: Now leaving NZ
Oh forgot about the penalty points big deal he is most likely driving without a licence as well now.
Nov 7th 2010, 10:38 am
#35
Life is what YOU make it.
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: Christchurch
Posts: 3,312
Re: Now leaving NZ
Nov 7th 2010, 5:54 pm
#36
It is what it is Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: Blockhouse Bay, Auckland
Posts: 2,797
Re: Now leaving NZ
They quote 30% of UK children live in poverty. You see poverty is a relative term wherever you go, in the UK it is n doubt defined as not having a mobile phone or some other western consumer item, bet access to water is far down the list but it makes me disbelieve ANY stats on it frankly....every set comes from someone with an agenda....
Nov 7th 2010, 7:43 pm
#37
---
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,994
Re: Now leaving NZ
I hate to call you on this one- you've obviously had enough of being here and that is souring things for you so I really hope your exit plan goes smoothly and you find happiness elsewhere ... BUT you paint a rather bias picture of rural water and waste systems.
I've lived rurally (do now) and most rural water systems are rain water collection or spring fed, which is then collected in tanks and then run through filters (and in the case of newer properties UV systems too). Very few homes are reliant on unfiltered water and if you're renting the property you have a legal right to insist on it being brought up to drinking standard. The waste treatment systems that many councils are now requiring of new builds are state of the art and the discharge is close to drinking water grade. Septic systems of the ilk you've referred to are a problem in the UK too.
I get your point about the "I'm alright Jack" expat brigade so I feel I must ask you what you are doing about it, given you abhor people living here and doing "nothing"? Though "nothing" is relative given how many immigrants arrive here to work in healthcare and education ....
I've lived rurally (do now) and most rural water systems are rain water collection or spring fed, which is then collected in tanks and then run through filters (and in the case of newer properties UV systems too). Very few homes are reliant on unfiltered water and if you're renting the property you have a legal right to insist on it being brought up to drinking standard. The waste treatment systems that many councils are now requiring of new builds are state of the art and the discharge is close to drinking water grade. Septic systems of the ilk you've referred to are a problem in the UK too.
I get your point about the "I'm alright Jack" expat brigade so I feel I must ask you what you are doing about it, given you abhor people living here and doing "nothing"? Though "nothing" is relative given how many immigrants arrive here to work in healthcare and education ....
Hi - thanks for all the many posts, we welcome all points of view. It helps for a balanced argument. I agree that some things I originally mentioned are subject to personal experience and interperetation. There are generalized statements not necessarily true for all areas. However generalizations are necessary in order to keep the posts brief and to the point. I raise the points so that readers can then go ahead and think about these facts and research them before drawing their own conclusions. How you find NZ largely depends on where you came from. If you lived in a terrace in a deprived inner city area or even just an inner city area then many places in NZ seem marvelous, certainly after living in most areas of London. If, like us, you moved from a small peaceful Hamlet in Oxfordshire then NZ has a different impression on arrival.
With reference to comments by londonescapee, above, about having fresh drinking water. Yes we now have fresh water but didn't when we arrived, the water grade in our rental area was D, it was brown, lumpy and had swimming creatures. Dunedin City had the same water quality until not too long ago! Remember that most rural areas of NZ, including those very close to Cities, have similar poor water quality and generations have been raised drinking rain water collected from the gutter and stored for months. It is not filtered or treated. (We could argue whether treated or roof collected was better but this is long enough already.) This is not fresh drinking water and is a third world aspect, it contibutes to NZ's poor health record. This type of water supply is very common in NZ, most UK visitors and migrants are not aware of this.
Likewise all these 'rural' areas have no linked sewerage systems, they have septics tanks which are often old, leaky and not maintained. The grey water is flushed into the nearest gulley and goes into the sea or streams. This is a big problem with numerous areas on Otago harbour. The areas are residential and within 5 minutes of the CBD but have no effective sewerage disposal system. Pollution and unpleasant odours eminating from the harbour are a common complaint and have been in the ODT many times. The Council could do something about this but opts to spend well over $200 million NZD on a stadium instead. This is again a third world aspect, or at least less than first world. Yes there are many subjective points one can make but we are often blissfully unaware of what goes on around us and in our Country. This is also true of the UK, of course. It is down to individuals to take an interest in the bigger picture rather than the 'I'm alright Jack' attitude we often see, especially with migrants. How often do you hear 'I've done very well in NZ, thank you!'. Well what about the rest of the Country struggling in poverty? And don't forget that the poverty line in NZ is considerably lower than it is in the UK! Just a bit more food for thought!
With reference to comments by londonescapee, above, about having fresh drinking water. Yes we now have fresh water but didn't when we arrived, the water grade in our rental area was D, it was brown, lumpy and had swimming creatures. Dunedin City had the same water quality until not too long ago! Remember that most rural areas of NZ, including those very close to Cities, have similar poor water quality and generations have been raised drinking rain water collected from the gutter and stored for months. It is not filtered or treated. (We could argue whether treated or roof collected was better but this is long enough already.) This is not fresh drinking water and is a third world aspect, it contibutes to NZ's poor health record. This type of water supply is very common in NZ, most UK visitors and migrants are not aware of this.
Likewise all these 'rural' areas have no linked sewerage systems, they have septics tanks which are often old, leaky and not maintained. The grey water is flushed into the nearest gulley and goes into the sea or streams. This is a big problem with numerous areas on Otago harbour. The areas are residential and within 5 minutes of the CBD but have no effective sewerage disposal system. Pollution and unpleasant odours eminating from the harbour are a common complaint and have been in the ODT many times. The Council could do something about this but opts to spend well over $200 million NZD on a stadium instead. This is again a third world aspect, or at least less than first world. Yes there are many subjective points one can make but we are often blissfully unaware of what goes on around us and in our Country. This is also true of the UK, of course. It is down to individuals to take an interest in the bigger picture rather than the 'I'm alright Jack' attitude we often see, especially with migrants. How often do you hear 'I've done very well in NZ, thank you!'. Well what about the rest of the Country struggling in poverty? And don't forget that the poverty line in NZ is considerably lower than it is in the UK! Just a bit more food for thought!
Nov 8th 2010, 3:12 am
#38
Banned
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: Queensland, Australia
Posts: 1,010
Re: Now leaving NZ
I too lived rurally, both in rented and private houses in New Zealand, some with drinking water tanks that filled from the roof and none of them (not even the ones I owned) had any form of water purification on them.
One of them was fitted with a large sock that collected the larger fragments of detritus from the roof and that was it.
This was, and is pretty much the norm in the places I lived. No big deal.
I'd love to tell you that I was never ill from drinking it but I never drink tap water anyway.
Mostly because I have friends who work for the local councils and they tell me what the quality is like, if I wouldn't drink that there's no way I'd drink something off my roof!
There's plenty on the net about water quality in NZ, if you're interested you only have to google something like 2008-2009 review of drinking water quality on google NZ and sort the results for the latest entries.
One of them was fitted with a large sock that collected the larger fragments of detritus from the roof and that was it.
This was, and is pretty much the norm in the places I lived. No big deal.
I'd love to tell you that I was never ill from drinking it but I never drink tap water anyway.
Mostly because I have friends who work for the local councils and they tell me what the quality is like, if I wouldn't drink that there's no way I'd drink something off my roof!
There's plenty on the net about water quality in NZ, if you're interested you only have to google something like 2008-2009 review of drinking water quality on google NZ and sort the results for the latest entries.
Nov 8th 2010, 6:30 am
#39
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Joined: May 2010
Location: Mission Bay, Auckland yay!
Posts: 493
Re: Now leaving NZ
Scubado probably does, but there are people in New Zealand who don't. Have you taken the time to get out into the sticks and see the other side of life in New Zealand, some people really are doing it hard.
Go to some of the areas where unemployment is high and generations of families have been on benefits and see how many kids are going to school hungry each day, in bare feet and with nothing for lunch.
In its more affluent, developed areas New Zealand is very much first world but where poverty exists it's a very different story.
We should be thankful for what we have, so many are less fortunate. There is a very wide gap between the haves and the have nots in Aotearoa.
One in five children live in poverty in New Zealand.
If anyone feels like making a difference here's where to start http://www.cpag.org.nz/
Go to some of the areas where unemployment is high and generations of families have been on benefits and see how many kids are going to school hungry each day, in bare feet and with nothing for lunch.
In its more affluent, developed areas New Zealand is very much first world but where poverty exists it's a very different story.
We should be thankful for what we have, so many are less fortunate. There is a very wide gap between the haves and the have nots in Aotearoa.
One in five children live in poverty in New Zealand.
If anyone feels like making a difference here's where to start http://www.cpag.org.nz/
We shouldn't bother comparing NZ to other westernised nations because each country has plus points and minus points unique to their own situations. Why bother moving anywhere if all one is going to do is compare to what they had left behind? Inevitable to a point at first but a waste of time in the long run.
And again, NZ doesn't have a monopoly on a huge gap between rich and poor in terms of Westernised nations - you need go no further than some suburbs of London to experience that - or some rural ares of the UK for that matter, it's a problem across the board. America too has far worse divides between rich and poor.
Anyway there was a raging debate on the terminology 3rd world a while ago and how inappropriate some felt it was so I will leave it there.
Last edited by londonescapee; Nov 8th 2010 at 6:42 am.
Nov 8th 2010, 7:03 am
#40
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Joined: May 2010
Location: Mission Bay, Auckland yay!
Posts: 493
Re: Now leaving NZ
I am so not qualified or knowlegable enough to comment on water quality and the like in NZ - but we all, for the most part, are fortunate enough to have a choice. You choose to live there, and now you are choosing to live somewhere else in the world because it isn't working for you. But it's not fair to tar a whole country with exactly the same brush.
If worst came to worst you could always boil a kettle
Whilst I do agree with your bigger picture comment (and again this is also a problem in the UK) - perhaps the 'I'm alright Jack' attitude is just that - they are alright? What's the point in sitting around moaning when you just need to get over it and get on with it? I quite like that element of NZ society.
And I'm doing really well in NZ thanks very much and I'm thrilled that we are. Whilst I'm not that interested in going on about myself (and nor is anyone else) I'm not going to be ashamed of it - why should I? Why can't I share how good I find things and lend some hope to others who are thinking of making the move over that it isn't everyone living off gruel and beating stone for a living? Should I be ashamed of the fact that things are working out for me? I don't think so. Sure we struggle sometimes - I had a particularly diabolical day at work today (caused, can I just add, by a Brit) but that's just life. It could happen anywhere.
(Just as an aside, NZ has the same tall poppy syndrome that exists in the UK. One of the more annoying characteristics left over from colonialism that it should shake sooner rather than later.)
I'm also really happy to hear of others doing well - more success stories please I'm equally really sad when I hear of things not going so well for people as having your dreams crushed is horrible.
I do wish you and your family all the best.
If worst came to worst you could always boil a kettle
It is down to individuals to take an interest in the bigger picture rather than the 'I'm alright Jack' attitude we often see, especially with migrants. How often do you hear 'I've done very well in NZ, thank you!'. Well what about the rest of the Country struggling in poverty? And don't forget that the poverty line in NZ is considerably lower than it is in the UK! Just a bit more food for thought!
And I'm doing really well in NZ thanks very much and I'm thrilled that we are. Whilst I'm not that interested in going on about myself (and nor is anyone else) I'm not going to be ashamed of it - why should I? Why can't I share how good I find things and lend some hope to others who are thinking of making the move over that it isn't everyone living off gruel and beating stone for a living? Should I be ashamed of the fact that things are working out for me? I don't think so. Sure we struggle sometimes - I had a particularly diabolical day at work today (caused, can I just add, by a Brit) but that's just life. It could happen anywhere.
(Just as an aside, NZ has the same tall poppy syndrome that exists in the UK. One of the more annoying characteristics left over from colonialism that it should shake sooner rather than later.)
I'm also really happy to hear of others doing well - more success stories please
I'm equally really sad when I hear of things not going so well for people as having your dreams crushed is horrible. I do wish you and your family all the best.
Nov 12th 2010, 7:06 am
#42
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Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Norwich, Uk (sigh)
Posts: 396
Re: Now leaving NZ
Flower pot your reply is so true.
I love New Zealand. I have 6 children and I love the schools here. Everything depends on the place you chose to live. I don't see any crime and I let my children have the freedom that they would not get in the UK. Here they live as children, and not like mini adults. I have been here for just over a year and I can't think of a better place to live on the planet. The people I have met are so friendly even the kiwi's. My children have many friends from all over the world.
In the UK I could not walk the area at night and crime was high. The children were growing up to fast and missing out on being children.
New Zealand has worked for us and I think it is the best place in the world to live.
Life is what you make it.
Move if you think you must but I would never go back to the UK.
I love New Zealand. I have 6 children and I love the schools here. Everything depends on the place you chose to live. I don't see any crime and I let my children have the freedom that they would not get in the UK. Here they live as children, and not like mini adults. I have been here for just over a year and I can't think of a better place to live on the planet. The people I have met are so friendly even the kiwi's. My children have many friends from all over the world.
In the UK I could not walk the area at night and crime was high. The children were growing up to fast and missing out on being children.
New Zealand has worked for us and I think it is the best place in the world to live.
Life is what you make it.
Move if you think you must but I would never go back to the UK.
Ditto (except for the 6 children
) Bevissa
Dec 27th 2010, 3:13 pm
#43
Just Joined
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 14
Re: Now leaving NZ
We hope to return to NZ (this time for good), I think you would call us 'ping-pongers!'. We moved out to NZ in 2007, heard the 'grass was greener' in OZ, and chased the Ozzie $, which was a big mistake for us personally. Yes we earnt more money, we could afford the plasma TV's etc and all the material things that go with it, but we missed the kiwi's, and we missed the natural beauty of NZ, after a while a beach is a beach is a beach.
We decided to retirn to the UK after 1 year in Oz.
Now we know that the UK is not for us anymore, its all celebrity, taxes, materialism, kids growing up too fast, no chance of ever owning our own home, kids stuck indoors for 8 months of year due to bad weather. I am not knocking the UK or Oz per se, its just that NZ is the place for us. We have spent nearly all our money finding this out, but hey, atleast we did it, anf now we know. So hopefully we are off to NZ - South island in Feb. 2011, PR visa almost with us (hopefully).
Yes we are ping pongers, but we certainly won't be coming back again, or chasing any Oz $ !
We decided to retirn to the UK after 1 year in Oz.
Now we know that the UK is not for us anymore, its all celebrity, taxes, materialism, kids growing up too fast, no chance of ever owning our own home, kids stuck indoors for 8 months of year due to bad weather. I am not knocking the UK or Oz per se, its just that NZ is the place for us. We have spent nearly all our money finding this out, but hey, atleast we did it, anf now we know. So hopefully we are off to NZ - South island in Feb. 2011, PR visa almost with us (hopefully).
Yes we are ping pongers, but we certainly won't be coming back again, or chasing any Oz $ !
Dec 27th 2010, 4:21 pm
#44
Joined: May 2009
Location: Welly UK to Welly NZ to Welly UK
Posts: 2,227
Re: Now leaving NZ
Hi Good Luck with your move back to NZ. Welcome to the forum where every one's welcome! 'ping ponger's' included!!
I'll add you to the February leavers thread, what date are you leaving and where on South Island are you headed?
As this thread was started by someone who is leaving NZ you might find a post on the introduction gets more response.
B x
with your move back to NZ. Welcome to the forum where every one's welcome! 'ping ponger's' included!!I'll add you to the February leavers thread, what date are you leaving and where on South Island are you headed?
As this thread was started by someone who is leaving NZ you might find a post on the introduction gets more response.
B x
Dec 27th 2010, 8:49 pm
#45
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Joined: Nov 2007
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Posts: 1,756
Re: Now leaving NZ
I have a 'love-hate' relationship with NZ. I love it on gorgeous hot days when I can take my kids to the beach/park/wherever and not be frightened for our safety, but then as a family of 5, it is blooming expensive to travel around NZ. The houses (not my current one, but previous ones) have been freezing cold and have had the most damp I have ever seen. My walls poured with water on the inside when it rained, and the landlords response... "She'll be right when it stops raining!". My daughter now has asthma, and I have to pay to have her checked out for my troubles of moving to NZ.
Not all, but the majority of Kiwi's, are rude and ignorant people and not very friendly at all... unless they're taking your money! I only have a couple of Kiwi friends after 3 and a half years being here, the rest are too highly strung for me to want to associate with.
Not all, but the majority of Kiwi's, are rude and ignorant people and not very friendly at all... unless they're taking your money! I only have a couple of Kiwi friends after 3 and a half years being here, the rest are too highly strung for me to want to associate with.
Especially this morning while drinking cr@p coffee, reading this thread, makes me so sad. ..
I often ask myself... Is this the RIGHT PLACE for me?
Obviously,,, I know..I'd be miserable forever as long as I live here/NZ.. but Do I have any other choices?
Last edited by crap coffee; Dec 27th 2010 at 9:18 pm.