TeamEmbo

maybe they didn't mention Martin Luther or John Calvin at your Catholic school?

scrubbedexpat094

or Henry VIII or Elizabeth I

Justcol

Havent read any replies as the original post was too long as it is.

1) I hated the way xmas had become over commercialised in the uk

2) If the school doesnt teach the message of xmas (which is not twinkly
lights, decorations and presents) then why as a parent dont you?
Do you have to rely on the system to provide everything your kids need to know?

3) Hello!! church of England, anglicans, mormons, methodists, Christadelphians
7th day eventists, the list goes on.

4) the local cinema near me is still showing A Christmas Carol and has a
special showing for kids on Christmas eve.

5) Our town parade was led by churches, schools and bussiness's. How many
Xmas parades can you remember in the uk ?? Errrrrr None

6)

Quote:

want my kids to also know the story and understand the meaning of Christmas

For me the meaning of Christmas is Peace, Love and Understanding
which i think if you dig away through all the extra stuff that organised
religions have added to it over the centuries was pretty close to
the original Xmas message.

Accept that things are different here.
All the best to you and yours and i hope you enjoy the day as best as you can
Ho Ho Ho
Santa

thedtb

My word, what have I started?

In asking what was a genuine and perfectly innocent question I've obviously demonstrated my ignorance towards... well, towards something.... I don't know what to say here... Catholicism? Christianity? Religion in general?... towards what or who doesn't actually matter - it wasn't my intention and for the record, I apologise.

Personally, religion is not for me. I consider myself to have been through the system and come out the other end acknowledging and respecting that other pople benefit from having a religion. I don't. Other people need a religion. I don't.

Perhaps I should have tried to remember more about the preachings I was subjected to as a child? Perhaps I should have simply paid more attention in my "Religious Education" classes at school?

Either way, my original question (in full) is still valid.

I asked: "Are there really Christians who are not Catholics, or Catholics who are not Christians and if so how is Christmas different to either group?"

So, there is obviously a difference between being a Christian or being Catholic, I accept that now (I don't actually understand it all that well, but I accept that there obviously is), but how is Christmas different to either/any group.

E.g. I always thought (so far as religious beliefs go) that Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Jesus. Do any other forms of Catholicism/Christianity not celebrate *it* as the birth of Jesus?

I honestly don't know the difference.

In fact (and I've now been ridiculed by the wife after mentioning this to her), I thought a "Protestant" was what you were referred to if you didn't believe in God/Jesus etc...

The wife also tells me that I wasn't Christened as a child. I was Baptised. Apparently this makes a difference - she did explain how (she obviously understands more than I do about this very topic) - but I've slept since then.

Absolutely not a wind up I assure you.

I genuinely didn't realise that there was a difference - I thought they were one and the same.

ok

Of course.

Martin Luther... as in King? Sure they did. But I don't see how this fits?

John Calvin? Never heard of him. Or at least if his name did come up at school I have absolutely no memory of it.


That has crossed our mind and we really hope it doesn't turn out that way as we've put an awful lot of time, effort and expense in to making the move to New Zealand happen.

Sure we expected Christmas to be different here, but we weren't for one second expecting to miss the UK Christmas quite as much as we are doing.

Perhaps it's down to the state of limbo we're kind of in at the moment, in terms of the almost empty house, camping equipment, lack of friends etc etc... we're really hoping next Christmas will be much "better".

But in the meantime, we're currently debating whether or not to submit the ITA or just stick with the two year work permit that the wife has, because at the moment (not just about Christmas but lots of other small things to, including trouble with my business back in the UK) neither of us can imagine stopping here long term. That being said, we're both also hoping that our opinion will change.

So do we, and we wish you all the very best!

Of course NZ does have good points, and there is plenty about NZ that we do love. Can anyone comment as to how long it takes for the worst of the home-sickness to wear off?

Hi Kristina, all the very best to you too!

We'd need to go and buy a device that would give us the ability to record the TV broadcasts. As we already have such devices this is an expense that isn't particularly justifiable... we just need to wait for the container to arrive... ETA Jan 22nd.


Sorry!

Is it not obvious from what I've said that I agree with this very point of view?

Hmmm I'm slightly offended by "Hello!!". There's, no need to be quite so dismissive of my lack of knowledge and understanding. You obviously understand and appreciate that there is a difference and presumably what that difference is. I don't. Although I'm slightly more enlightened from the replies in this thread.

That's how it should be! Sadly, your local cinema is nowhere near us.

But that's kind of my point. When we saw that there was a Christmas Parade in the town, we were quite excited and thought it would be a lovely thing to take the kids to see because (as you correctly state) stuff like that is fairly thin on the ground back in the UK (although to be fair in the smaller villages I'm used to, there did often tend to be a Christmas Market where traders from all over the world would turn up with their various festive goods)... but then the Christmas Parade turned out to be really quite lame, hardly festive at all and certainly not appealing to kids as young as ours.

I completely agree and will of course do our best to impart those views on to our kids at the same time as trying to make it a fun and enjoyable experience for them.

We are trying. We really are. We really want to make this move work for us and the boys.

All the very best to you too colandros!

Have a great Christmas!

Justcol

Sorry for the "hello" i must have been watching
too many episodes of friends.

I hope none of my comments offended, that was never the intension.
It does take a while to get used to NZ and camping in a house
with out your own stuff doesnt help.

One of my resolutions for 2010 is
Never to ask about religion or politics on a forum.
or at least remember to duck for cover pretty quick if i do

Have a good one mate, it does get better with time.

thedtb

Don't worry about it. None taken really.

Ha. I reckon I may adopt that too!

You too. All the very best to you and yours!

Mgee

I think the previous posters were commenting the bit of your original post that I've highlighted above, not the way Christian denominations celebrate Christmas.

All churches that teach about Jesus being the son of God and the Messias and that he died for our sins are considered Christian. This includes Roman Catholics (headed by the Pope), the Greek Orthodox church (led by their own leaders), the Anglican Church and various Protestant churches (Presbyterian, Lutheran, Methodist etc. etc.). Therefore Catholics are Christians, but not all Christians are Catholic, and therefore Christmas is not just a Catholic celebration. All Christian churches celebrate Christmas as the celebration of the birth of Jesus, so Christmas is a Christian celebration, not just a Catholic one (as you stated in your first post) because Catholicism is not the only Christian denomination. This is what I think most of the previous posts were all about.

Protestants are those Christians who do not recognise the authority of the Pope and some other traditions/teachings of the Catholic church. The term Protestant is an umbrella term covering multiple Christian denominations (or churches if you like) that follow the Protestant teachings. Protestantism was born largely from the teachings of Martin Luther in the 16th century (not King, Martin Luther King was named after the original ML) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestantism. There are around 350 million Protestants in the world, and Protestants make up the majority of Christians in Northern Europe and in parts of North America. For example, I am a Lutheran and thus a Protestant Christian.

Those who do not believe in God/Jesus (or in any god) are called atheists.

So I don't think anyone was trying to convince you that Christians don't see Christmas as the celebration of the Birth of Jesus, they were just trying to point out that it is not just a Catholic celebration but a common Christian one.

And although I am not that religious, for me it was sobering to see in one of the pics my friend sent me from last year's Santa parade in Welly: a float with a manger and the sign "Christmas is Jesus' birthday". It's good that someone reminds us that maybe it should be more of a family event like a baby's birthday and not a commercial marathon spanning from October to New Year.

Merry Christmas to all!

thedtb

I obviously chose the wrong name/title when I wrote "... Catholic Celebration". I should obviously have said "Christian Celebration". But that, I guess, was derived from my lack of understanding in the first place.

Thank you for your input, it makes things much clearer.

TeamEmbo

I tried googling all the things I could think of that might help you to find your feet and some things for kids to do similar to what I know is available local to me. Maybe I'm not googling the right things cos it doesn't seem there is too much going on in Masterton. I couldn't find much in the way of kid stuff or even a newcomers group local to you. Maybe you have lots of stuff advertised in your local paper? From the lack of stuff I've managed to find it doesn't seem that Masterton is a very happening place! Sorry, haven't been much help really, but hope you manage to have a lovely Christmas and the boys enjoy it.

And yes, get around your neighbours and knock on doors and introduce yourselves.

It sucks being in an empty house and feeling like your in limbo but it'll be lovely when the container comes and you can make it nice and homely.

Merry Christmas

Jobry01

to op i think i can understand your feeling re xmas lost

i was walking (after 3 miles car got stuck) the trees are snow covered, 6 inches of snow on ground, kids playing, sledging, snowballs fights almost xmas card scenes

and a wee thought popped up what will it be like having xmas in the sun

i would actually miss this awful weather (for one or two days of the year)
the hype, the tv, the family all coming round, the fights, the stress

then the feeling disappeared and i remembered i am frozen, skint, my car is stuck miles away and teenagers are about to try and pelt me with snowballs

as for all the religious arguements some people do get carried away at what was an innocent comment/observation

merry xmas to all

Flower Pot

Oh this thread has made me chuckle... I totally agree religion and politics are very 'touchy' subjects, it sooo easy to offend people without trying!

My school was run by nuns and had a convent on site, we had RE lessons almost daily, yet I too can hardly remember a thing taught! I have found everyones responses very informative so thanks!

Back to the original topic... its definately true xmas is less commercial in NZ, however I think it totally depends on the area as to the extent.

My parents live in Orewa, Auckland and we have spent a couple of christmasses over there. Auckland is quite christmassy, they have carols on the beach, shops are decorated and a lot of my folks neighbours have trees and house lights up etc... yes its very different as rather than a roast we were down the beack BBQ-in it, but hey refreshing change!

Its all about adaptation, and if you can do that and get into the kiwi spirit I can guarantee you will love it. As another poster said, perhpas Masterton isn't the right place if it doesn't seem to have any of the things you love, you may need to opt more towards the major cities?

Anyhooo, I for one cant wait to hopefully spend next xmas in NZ, hopefully with our PR visas if we ever get them?!!! Had an xmas here this year and yes it was lovely but also freeeeeeezing and expensive!!!

Good luck x

willand tina_h

I second that last part flower pot Happy new year and may 2010 be all you want it to be.

tina x

WheelsOfSteel

We were all swimming in the bay on Xmas day - finished off what had been a thoroughly relaxing and family occasion for us - two little ones.

It is different to what you would expect in the UK, but you are not in the UK anymore.

We're in the South Island just outside Christchurch, but as much as the warm weather could never make it feel like a northern hemisphere Xmas, there was plenty to remind me it was.

It's not uncommon here to do the mulled-wine thing mid winter here for obvious reasons. I don't mind Christmas here, the only down-side is not having more family with us.

Head to the beach or grab your tent - when in Rome and all that. Live for the now and try and put what was behind you for a while. Believe me, the UK's not going anywhere and if and when you get back there, you'll realize. Just enjoy it and go with the flow.

Best of luck...

WOS