Will I be de skilled working in OZ as midwife?
 

Hi I'm looking into relocating to OZ or NZ. Currently keep going back and fourth between the two as I cant decide! I am a midwife working here in the UK at the moment.
My question is this:
If I move to Australia and work as a midwife out there for afew years and then decide I want to come back to the UK, will I struggle to get a job as a midwife in the UK because I am de skilled? I am well aware of the maty system in place in OZ and also NZ (although the NZ situation was somewhat more suprising to me).
I am worried that if I move and hate it I will have shot myself in the foot.
I assume just because Iv kept my registration up as a 'midwife' doesnt convert into the UK NHS??

On the other hand If we love life in oz/nz then the fact I am de skilled as a midwife wont matter because we wouldnt want to be returning anyway.
Just seems like a huge gamble...

Cheers
Sam

Re: Will I be de skilled working in OZ as midwife?
 

I find it hard that you feel you will be "de-skilled" in the first place as it seems you have no first hand knowledge of such an experience.Your integrity and ability to adapt and think outside the box should be what drives you as an individual rather than assuming you might be worse off.Perhaps you are not really ready to take up the challenge as yet and would do well to further your research rather than demeaning the Australian Healthcare system as sub-standard.
Personally I have not worked in Australia as yet as a nurse/midwife but would never be so bold as to assume anything!If you think that your skill is of a more superior nature then perhaps you would be better suited to sharing your attributes than undermining others.IMHO:frown:

Re: Will I be de skilled working in OZ as midwife?
 

I think you do not really understand the nature of midwifery services in Australia.

Services tend to be medically led with the 'midwives' acting as midwifery nurses with very little autonomy. Until fairly recently the only midwifery qualification was an 'add on' to general nurse training. Direct entry is a relatively new concept and not in every state.

Much depends on where you work but be careful as the chances of 'de-skilling' are very real if you end up working in the wrong place.

Try a search for other midwife's experiences as they will vary from state to state.....the private system in Australia, in all health fields, is geared towards doctors being the boss and nurses doing what they are told.

As for 'sharing your attributes'.....this is nowhere near as easy as you make it seem. The system is usually not responsive to changes especially if it challenges the medical authority.

Be very careful about where you choose to work and do not expect the same Austonomy and independence as you may be used to.

G

Re: Will I be de skilled working in OZ as midwife?
 

Hi I can only comment on my personal experience here in Oz, as a UK trained RMN & working within the mental health field here, yes becoming de-skilled is a real possibility. As G said before me the health services here are managed very differently than the UK, nurses have very little say in the day to day management of the patients. I have come across so many UK trained staff who struggle hugely with the systems here.
I would do as much research as you can before you decide where to work.

Donna

Re: Will I be de skilled working in OZ as midwife?
 

Totally agree with Grayling and Donna,depending largely where you work you may well become deskilled.I work in a neonatal 'intensive'(:rofl:)care unit and im bored off my head every shift,only staying for PR then im off.I too trained in the UK and working here in oz most docs believe themselves to be the font of all knowledge,common practice to triple check their 'orders':rolleyes:

Re: Will I be de skilled working in OZ as midwife?
 

Apologies if my post seemed to get personal BUT..............the main reason for my response was probably borne out of frustration by the poster's negativity.Should I /shouldn't I attitude .When so many of us have been around on this site for a bit longer than a few posts.Add to this the constant changes in the criteria and the hurdles we have all jumped to get where we are not to mention the expense of the whole visa process.

As far as being de-skilled is concerned,I trained and worked in the UK too and know all too well about the superiority of the NHS.Mind you,everyone still complains about the NHS anyway so what's the difference between that and the Australian system at the end of the day........life it not perfect :blink:My current position is in "third /first"world Africa where there is also a degree of de-skilling for want of a different word.Thing is though instead of fighting the system,I'd like to think that I embrace it in my own little way.........;)there are many ways to skin a cat:sneaky:

Adopt,Adapt,Improve.No mallice intended;)

Re: Will I be de skilled working in OZ as midwife?
 

I worked as a Midwife in the UK for 16 years and now work in Queensland as a Midwife. I work in the public system and do exactly the same as I did in the Uk in terms of birth suite practice. I have not deskilled at all !!
I do however find that the O & G team are more involved with our women and their care but I don't see this as a negative, just a 'difference'.
I came with my mind open and knowing that the Aussie health care system was not the NHS and never will be. I intended to stay focused and not allow myself to de-skill. Believe me, you could de-skill very easily because the doctors will step in and do it all for you if you want. Great when you're busy and need a hand !!!
I still have nights where I manage the birth suite and never call a doctor just like I did in the Uk. I also have days where I call them every 10 minutes and ask them to do suturing, ARM's and all sorts for me. It works both ways, just like the UK.
I have learnt soooooo much about the finer points of midwifery simply by listening to the O & G doctors. They are very educated and do advocate 'best practice' in terms of Intrapartum care. They tend to be 'more medicalised' in their thinking and don't however appreciate the fineries of midwife led care........simply because they are used to a medical model of care. I do find that the Aussie Midwives accept the medicalised system far easier than those of us from the UK and I believe it's simply because we know of a midwife led system of care and can advocate for 'normal midwifery' far easier.

Us 'English' Midwives disagree and argue with the doctors decisons far more than the Aussie Midwives and I think we are great ambassadors for Midwifery rather than Obstetric nursing !!
Times are changing !!!

I do find that the post natal care is different but again, not negative. The O & G doctors do the discharges and the paeds do the baby checks. Midwives still do all the post natal checks and give postnatal education. I don't mind that the doctors do the final discharge check as I feel the information given is really good and an extention of our parent ed.....The doctors chat about contraception and the 'medical' aspects of postnatal care. They are also able to book women into their clinics all at the same time....contraception, 6 week checks, BP clinics, diabetic clinics ect
If I felt that the O & G doctors were inferior in their care or information, then I would be concerned but at the end of the day, it's all about the woman and making sure that they have a good birth experience and receive good follow up care, regardless of who is the key provider.
Women here just don't understand the differences between the Oz and Uk systems. They are happy, they have lovely normal births and I think have an equally good birth experience as those in the UK. The huge difference is that there is little or no home based Midwifery services so women have to be 'fit for discharge' on a medical level knowing that they may never return to a GP....because of the cost involement of a medicare system.

My advice would be to stay open minded, check out the hospitals in the area you like, go into the Public system rather than the private system, look into Midwifery group practices and low risk birthing units and check that the unit you choose is able to accomodate your skill set and offer you the opportunity to enhance and develop. Also ask about the midwifery models of care and midwifery education. The larger hospitals will have you working at full skill level but the smaller medicalised unit will have you tearing your hair out !!!

Good luck, Australia is a great place to work, the NHS is definitely not the only health care system in the world and it's been great to appreciate the differences...good & bad. I'm sooooooo glad that I came here and I for one feel that my skills are utilised to the max !!

Re: Will I be de skilled working in OZ as midwife?
 

:thumbup: What a fantastic reply! Im looking forward to it now.

Karen

Re: Will I be de skilled working in OZ as midwife?
 

Hi. Thanks to everyone who replied, in particular Caddy the cat lover. It was lovely to hear about your experience actually working as a midwife in Australia. Your post was very useful!:)

I just wanted to clarify afew other points-
On review of my inital post I can see how it has been misconstrued by some members as being negative. For that I apologise. I never meant to suggest that the Australian Health care system is worse than the NHS in the UK, nor did I mean to imply that I am too highly skilled and superior to work in Australia! I would NEVER be so concieted to think this, let alone post it on an international forum.

However, I have learnt there are distinct differences between the practices of midwives in the UK and Australia, and although I have no first hand experience of these differences, it was for this very reason I thought it wise to try and find out as much as I can about midwifery in another country before I go. As it turns out, my initial (apparently 'bold') assumption that I MAY be de skilled turned out to be correct. I am not saying that this is a negative factor, rather a realistic one to equip me with a good knowledge of the systems in place in Australia so I can try to understand what my role as a midwife will be over there.

I would not be considering selling my house, moving away from friends and family and incurring the huge costs of visa and immigration if I genuinely thought the Australian system was much worse than the NHS. It is infact the hope of a better quality healthcare system, and a better quality of working life that is the reason I am even considering moving. Anyone who has emigrated has had to take huge risks, and I would not be foolish enough to go without thoroughly researching and considering all the options I have available to me.

Sam :)

Re: Will I be de skilled working in OZ as midwife?
 

Well posted Caddy,you have helped us ALL have a more rounded view and have elaborated on your own personal experiences which always helps!

footnote:

On an open forum it is very easy to misinterpret what some people have written by the tone of their posts.This is why we have smilies to assist in a topic's presentation to avoid such confusion.;)

Re: Will I be de skilled working in OZ as midwife?
 

Hi all

As previous posts have stated it is a possibility to lose some of your skills in the Australia system. You just have to adapt to the system and not let yourself become deskilled.

Also you have to remember why you have made the change. My 'NHS skills', meant I never had a proper lunch and often had to look after 3 women in labour and go home exhausted. Here on the wards i only ever have 5 women to look after, and when on the birthsuite, 2 rooms to look after.

still happy
Jo

Re: Will I be de skilled working in OZ as midwife?
 

Jo, you have just persuaded me even more.

Wow! Only 5 to look after on the ward? As a third year student, apparently supernumeracy, I was asked to look after 13 women/14 babies :( This was an exception, but generally looked after 6-8 (without supervision!)

Just have to get thru this bloody IELTS test :unsure:

Karen

Re: Will I be de skilled working in OZ as midwife?
 

Thanks for the nice comments, it was great to add my little bit.....having gained soooo much from reading these links.

Midwifery is the same the world over......only it was 22 degrees when I left the hospital at 7.30am this morning.............and the sky was soooooooooo blue xx

same old, same old guys !!!!

Did a night shift last night, had a primip with epidural and synt !!!!
- kiwi delivery by the doc but all care and labour decisions were midwife led. Until the pear shaped ending !!!
Sounding familiar !!
Had a lady with diminished fetal movements (still turn up at 11pm with no FM all day) bless xxx - No review by doc, home on midwifery assessment & decision.
Had a lady who was booked at a tertiary unit (larger unit) and just rocked up to us - like they do. Very high risk lady and was managed mainly by the O & G team. Great experience but don't come again !!!!
Had a 'normal'........yeah 'NORMAL'....spontaneous labourer who never even saw a doctor.
Called a paed for delivery, canulated a grand multi, rubbed a few fundus's, initiated skin to skin contact, pushed an emergency buzzer (only once), sorted out the PPH, made some beds, had a pee, ate my lunch, had a break, and got off duty on time !!!!!!
Another day at the office....LOl !!!

Welcome to Queensland !!!!!

Alison xx

Re: Will I be de skilled working in OZ as midwife?
 

Hi Sam

I understand your concerns as I had many similar ones myself before moving out, having over 15 years as a midwife in the UK NHS environment I was worried how I would adapt to a different system.

To make it more complicated I took a job in the private sector where the differences were more obvious! Initially I was very unhappy, stuggling with a new work place, new terminolgy, new people and what seemed to be a completely alien way of working. 6 months in and it is a lot easier, I've had some lovely normal deliveries with no involvement from the doctor (I work nights and I think that has helped enormously as they don't want to get out of their warm beds in hurry!)

There is definitely a higher LSCS rate, (within the private sector, anyway) made higher by frequent inductions for social or vague reasons. However, we have a fantastic breast feeding rate, skin to skin is practised with no hassles from labour ward managers trying to rush you to get the woman washed and warded, they all remain in the birth suite rooms anyway, so no rushing necessary. Women stay in for up to 6 days which is great for the primips in particular and means you get the chance to get to know them better (where I worked before normal deliveries were often home in 12 -24 hours) We have started a homevisit programme which could work every well if only we can get the hospital to be a bit supportive.

The negatives are not doing as many hands on skills, eg suturing, as the docs do all this, but I have learnt which docs are more flexible, and tried to show them that I am more than competent at making decisions etc and this is resulting in more autonomy than I had when I first started. There are some staff who are reluctant to work like this and I think they may feel threatened or simply annoyed by my questioning and discussing but tough!

So, go for it, as said above, caring for women is much the same where ever you are and is what you make of it!

Good luck :)

Sam