You're white supremacists now...
Sep 7th 2011, 10:35 am
#61
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Re: You're white supremacists now...
One thing I have always appreciated in this country, BB, is that people do talk.
I think that Britain is riddled with an insidious racism that is not talked about or recognised at least and that was one of my reasons for leaving to be honest (I'm a coward)
Here at least there is open dialogue. That doesn't mean we have to agree
I was just thinking as I'm writing that maybe Maori have a tradition of being contentious on the paepae and that this is a similar thing? That her speech is designed to stir debate an invite thought. Sometimes it's hard for people to understand "the other" and way of relating to the world and so this gets labelled as something offensive.
I think that it is easier to focus on her and what we find objectionable than it is to focus on the realities for NZ for the indigenous people ( just to note, that it will not really add to debate to only read this part of my post and start talking about Moriori, or debating length of time here!)
I think that Britain is riddled with an insidious racism that is not talked about or recognised at least and that was one of my reasons for leaving to be honest (I'm a coward)
Here at least there is open dialogue. That doesn't mean we have to agree
I was just thinking as I'm writing that maybe Maori have a tradition of being contentious on the paepae and that this is a similar thing? That her speech is designed to stir debate an invite thought. Sometimes it's hard for people to understand "the other" and way of relating to the world and so this gets labelled as something offensive.
I think that it is easier to focus on her and what we find objectionable than it is to focus on the realities for NZ for the indigenous people ( just to note, that it will not really add to debate to only read this part of my post and start talking about Moriori, or debating length of time here!)
Sep 7th 2011, 10:43 am
#62
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Re: You're white supremacists now...
clearly she's a teflon-coated academic, I've lived with, worked with and partied with quite a few professors and the odd one was stupid. However, none of them was quite stupid enough to call for racial discrimination - certainly not in a national newspaper.
And to then try and weasel out of it by saying I'm oppressed, my people are oppressed so the rules don't apply to us. Racial discrimination is founded on racist thoughts, ideas and deeds and as the UN states:
I'm pretty bright and usually analyse these things in a rational manner but it was pretty clear what the basis of these comments are and where they are coming from. One might argue that they are intended to damage race relations and bring forward conflict. We'll see.
Personally, I've stood up to racism in the workplace and elsewhere both in the UK and in NZ and I've found far more racist comments and barbed put downs from whites in NZ and most of these comments are from Kiwis who have spent all their lives here. Not had much, if anything, from immigrants from the UK. Not sure about the Saffas who seem to keep their cards close to their chest, although they are often very outspoken on NZ practice and all NZers who are often seen as stupid, unwilling to change, etc. My european mates don't seem to put down anyone apart from some NZ institutions.
And to then try and weasel out of it by saying I'm oppressed, my people are oppressed so the rules don't apply to us. Racial discrimination is founded on racist thoughts, ideas and deeds and as the UN states:
Originally Posted by UNITED NATIONS
International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination NEW YORK 7 March 1966
International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination NEW YORK 7 March 1966
Article 1
In this Convention, the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.
In this Convention, the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.
Personally, I've stood up to racism in the workplace and elsewhere both in the UK and in NZ and I've found far more racist comments and barbed put downs from whites in NZ and most of these comments are from Kiwis who have spent all their lives here. Not had much, if anything, from immigrants from the UK. Not sure about the Saffas who seem to keep their cards close to their chest, although they are often very outspoken on NZ practice and all NZers who are often seen as stupid, unwilling to change, etc. My european mates don't seem to put down anyone apart from some NZ institutions.
Sep 10th 2011, 11:09 pm
#63
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Re: You're white supremacists now...
The Race Relations office has received 30 complaints about Mutu's comments and there have been calls for her sacking, but the university is backing her right to free speech.
Good!
Another prominent Maori academic, Ranginui Walker, said New Zealanders needed to have a "rational" discussion about whether the immigration policy was fatally flawed.
"The trouble with New Zealanders is they are extremely sensitive to the politics of culture and the politics of race. It is time New Zealand matured and was able to debate these matters rationally."
Walker said many Maori felt the Government allowed too many immigrants to enter the country, at the expense of the indigenous population.
"The problem of Maori under-performance in New Zealand – in terms of education and dependency on welfare – has not been resolved. If we can't solve our own internal problems, why add to those problems by bringing more people? It just doesn't make sense."
Walker said New Zealand must rethink the economic approach to immigration where people who were meant to fuel the economy by creating new jobs were given priority.
"This policy has gone on for 30 years now and we are no better off economically."
The immigration debate arose after a Department of Labour report found Maori are more likely to express anti-immigration sentiment than any other ethnic group.
Immigration Minister Jonathan Coleman said there were no immediate plans to change the country's immigration approach.
"New Zealand's immigration policy is firmly focused on attracting migrants who can contribute to New Zealand."
"The trouble with New Zealanders is they are extremely sensitive to the politics of culture and the politics of race. It is time New Zealand matured and was able to debate these matters rationally."
Walker said many Maori felt the Government allowed too many immigrants to enter the country, at the expense of the indigenous population.
"The problem of Maori under-performance in New Zealand – in terms of education and dependency on welfare – has not been resolved. If we can't solve our own internal problems, why add to those problems by bringing more people? It just doesn't make sense."
Walker said New Zealand must rethink the economic approach to immigration where people who were meant to fuel the economy by creating new jobs were given priority.
"This policy has gone on for 30 years now and we are no better off economically."
The immigration debate arose after a Department of Labour report found Maori are more likely to express anti-immigration sentiment than any other ethnic group.
Immigration Minister Jonathan Coleman said there were no immediate plans to change the country's immigration approach.
"New Zealand's immigration policy is firmly focused on attracting migrants who can contribute to New Zealand."
Sep 10th 2011, 11:36 pm
#64
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Re: You're white supremacists now...
Maybe the government needs to make gaining NZ citizenship to migrants REALLY easy and quick and then they'll all pass on through to OZ. 
Sep 11th 2011, 12:16 am
#65
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Re: You're white supremacists now...
Another prominent Maori academic, Ranginui Walker, said New Zealanders needed to have a "rational" discussion about whether the immigration policy was fatally flawed.
"The trouble with New Zealanders is they are extremely sensitive to the politics of culture and the politics of race. It is time New Zealand matured and was able to debate these matters rationally."
"The trouble with New Zealanders is they are extremely sensitive to the politics of culture and the politics of race. It is time New Zealand matured and was able to debate these matters rationally."
Had this been the reverse position however of a white person saying that only white immigrants should be admitted because we have enough blacks (e.g. they disproportionately burden our police, court, corrections, social welfare and healthcare systems) would it be "sensitive" or "racist"?
Walker said many Maori felt the Government allowed too many immigrants to enter the country, at the expense of the indigenous population.
"The problem of Maori under-performance in New Zealand – in terms of education and dependency on welfare – has not been resolved. If we can't solve our own internal problems, why add to those problems by bringing more people? It just doesn't make sense."
"The problem of Maori under-performance in New Zealand – in terms of education and dependency on welfare – has not been resolved. If we can't solve our own internal problems, why add to those problems by bringing more people? It just doesn't make sense."
"This policy has gone on for 30 years now and we are no better off economically."
I'm going to take a pretty big leap here and say these academics are clueless as well because if the'd actually been bothered to read the Department of Labours report it says:
The top source countries for residents in 2010/11 were the United Kingdom (16%), China (13%), India (10%), South Africa and the Philippines (8% respectively).
It doesn't list all groups but just from those top 5 countries it's appears likely more Asians are immigrating here than white people and, despite being a "white supremacist" immigrant, I welcome them as they can make valuable contributions to New Zealand society (so balancing out the contributions of certain Maori "academics"
).
Last edited by Charismatic; Sep 11th 2011 at 12:19 am.
Sep 11th 2011, 11:32 am
#67
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Re: You're white supremacists now...
While a taniwha was once considered a dragon or monster, veteran Maori studies academic Ranginui Walker has written that these days taniwha are a manifestation of a coping mechanism.
At the time of the Meremere decision, he said taniwha were peppered all over the landscape, noting that Maori use them to explain events, such as a string of fatal accidents on SH1 near Meremere.
"You have to placate local demons, deities, taniwha . . . don't tempt fate. Who knows the number of deaths along the Meremere straight caused by taniwha?" said Walker.
"They are sacred and familiar friends."
At the time of the Meremere decision, he said taniwha were peppered all over the landscape, noting that Maori use them to explain events, such as a string of fatal accidents on SH1 near Meremere.
"You have to placate local demons, deities, taniwha . . . don't tempt fate. Who knows the number of deaths along the Meremere straight caused by taniwha?" said Walker.
"They are sacred and familiar friends."
Sep 11th 2011, 7:17 pm
#68
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Re: You're white supremacists now...
Does that sound much different to the 'coping mechanisms' (ways of making some sense or order out of the unpredictability or pretending to exert some influence) of any other culture? Superstitious folk (and even those who claim they aren't superstitious) do all sorts of things and sort of believe all sorts of things to a certain degree. And then there's religion ...
Sep 12th 2011, 10:22 am
#69
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Re: You're white supremacists now...
Does that sound much different to the 'coping mechanisms' (ways of making some sense or order out of the unpredictability or pretending to exert some influence) of any other culture? Superstitious folk (and even those who claim they aren't superstitious) do all sorts of things and sort of believe all sorts of things to a certain degree. And then there's religion ...
I can live with sacred places based on the burial of ancestors, etc but I have problems with planning roading based on where sea monsters might be dwelling.
But hey ho that costs less than some other religously-motivated actions.
Sep 12th 2011, 8:08 pm
#70
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Re: You're white supremacists now...
the point though is that we don't move roads, tunnels, etc on the basis of most superstitions, like Friday 13th, four leaf clovers, etc
I can live with sacred places based on the burial of ancestors, etc but I have problems with planning roading based on where sea monsters might be dwelling.
But hey ho that costs less than some other religously-motivated actions.
I can live with sacred places based on the burial of ancestors, etc but I have problems with planning roading based on where sea monsters might be dwelling.
But hey ho that costs less than some other religously-motivated actions.
Anyway, I don't want to piss off a taniwha
Sep 12th 2011, 11:20 pm
#71
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Re: You're white supremacists now...
Perhaps Margaret Mutu has some sort of Tebbit Test in mind.
Anyone who supports England (rather than the All Blacks) is a White Supremacist.
Anyone who supports England (rather than the All Blacks) is a White Supremacist.
Sep 12th 2011, 11:27 pm
#73
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Re: You're white supremacists now...
Auckland university responds:
Dear X
Thank you for your email; I’m a recent a British expatriate too and I understand your views.
The concerns you and others have raised over Professor Margaret Mutu’s reported comments are understandable, and the University regrets the fact that you and others have been hurt or offended by her statements or how they have been reported.
At the same time, the University believes very strongly in the right of academics to comment on issues in which they have expertise, even when those comments may be controversial. The Education Act protects the right of academics, within the law, to question and test received wisdom, to put forward new ideas and to state controversial or unpopular opinions. That is an important right in a free society.
Kind regards
Y
Dear X
Thank you for your email; I’m a recent a British expatriate too and I understand your views.
The concerns you and others have raised over Professor Margaret Mutu’s reported comments are understandable, and the University regrets the fact that you and others have been hurt or offended by her statements or how they have been reported.
At the same time, the University believes very strongly in the right of academics to comment on issues in which they have expertise, even when those comments may be controversial. The Education Act protects the right of academics, within the law, to question and test received wisdom, to put forward new ideas and to state controversial or unpopular opinions. That is an important right in a free society.
Kind regards
Y
1. One can still be a pillock, even when exercising one's legal rights.
2. Mutu can make such remarks, even though a first-year undergrad would get a fail for expressing the same sentiment in an essay.
3. Her remarks don't amount to academic discourse. They are half-baked political comment. She and the University are abusing the privileges of the Education Act by citing it.
I hope the University is (privately) reprimanding her. It should not allow its reputation to be brought into disrepute by racist idiots like Mutu.
Sep 12th 2011, 11:42 pm
#74
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Re: You're white supremacists now...