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You're white supremacists now...

You're white supremacists now...

Old Sep 7th 2011, 5:33 am
  #46  
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Default Re: You're white supremacists now...

Though having said that, reading the article you've linked to I see the Race Relations Commissioner agrees with your dictionary definition Charismatic so perhaps all my learning is wrong
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Old Sep 7th 2011, 5:33 am
  #47  
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Default Re: You're white supremacists now...

I agree people are entitled to hold their own views and express them as they see fit.

Consider however Professor Mutu is head of a, until recent tarnishing, prestigious academic institution as an expert on a particular subgroup of New Zealanders. I have not and do not call for her to be given the sack or anything similar.

However I do not believe that her position does not afford her the privilege to express opinions without recourse to an open debate or suffering some consequences. If someone in another industry had made inappropriate racist or sexist comments I would be of the same opinion.

She did not have to make the comments and if she felt she had no other alternative she could have done so anonymously without incurring damage to her professional reputation.
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Old Sep 7th 2011, 5:43 am
  #48  
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Default Re: You're white supremacists now...

Everyone is in a minority in one way or another.

You learn this at school, people will give you jip regardless. You'll be picked on for being teachers pet, for being ginger, for being fat, thin, wearing ugg boots, having the wrong lunch box, your parents profession, having the wrong kind of accent...you are a minority in some and probably many ways. However you also learn that innate abilities and hard work, in a free society, overcome these boundaries.
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Old Sep 7th 2011, 5:45 am
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Default Re: You're white supremacists now...

In a way though she's not saying anything new! I remember there being something on my PR application about not being racist- and yet so many of the expats I've met here are to a greater or lesser degree. And when not racist they are pretty ignorant about NZ's history, the treaty etc, which makes them totally lack in understanding. She said:

Mutu said Maori were generally supportive of immigration from Asian countries, and she was happy to welcome white immigrants who understood issues of racism against Maori.

"They are in a minority just like Pakeha in this country. You have a minority of Pakeha who are very good, they recognise the racism, they object to it and speak out strongly against it."
From: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5561...immigrants-row

I can't find fault with that. If you look at recent reports into healthcare outcomes for Pakeha and Maori you find appalling differences that would be hard to explain as anything other than the result of long term ingrained racism. And yet who gives a shit really? I'm not very comfortable with the term racist- no matter how right Mutu was by using that term she's pissed everyone off. If she'd said "negative stereotypes" or "discriminatory beliefs and attitudes" I don't think we'd see such a shit storm. I wish she wasn't right, I'd love NZ a whole lot more if she wasn't, but she kind of is.
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Old Sep 7th 2011, 5:50 am
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Default Re: You're white supremacists now...

Originally Posted by Charismatic
However you also learn that innate abilities and hard work, in a free society, overcome these boundaries.
I wish that was true Charismatic. But the reality is that for every one kid who struggles against all odds and breaks free to "overcome the boundaries", thousands don't make it. Innate ability is neat but much, much better than innate ability is being born into a family that help you succeed and into a culture that has been Top Dog for centuries.
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Old Sep 7th 2011, 5:55 am
  #51  
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FFS my ancestors where Jewish and Irish.

"Top Dog" indeed, bloody history forgetting racists .
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Old Sep 7th 2011, 5:57 am
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Default Re: You're white supremacists now...

Originally Posted by Charismatic
FFS my ancestors where Jewish and Irish.

"Top Dog" indeed, bloody history forgetting racists .


I'm part Roma ... does that make us equal underdogs?
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Old Sep 7th 2011, 6:12 am
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Default Re: You're white supremacists now...

Gypsie!

Equal indeed, I get to look down on you .
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Old Sep 7th 2011, 6:28 am
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Default Re: You're white supremacists now...

Originally Posted by Charismatic
Gypsie!

Equal indeed, I get to look down on you .
Whatever- I've totally moved on from this now as I'm in the 'critical stages' of marmalade making so I can think of nothing but set points and breakfast tomorrow
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Old Sep 7th 2011, 7:13 am
  #55  
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Default Re: You're white supremacists now...

Dear Bourbon biscuit
Would you like to write my loom essay on Racism, Privilege and Maori health? Failing that feel free to PM me any pertinent articles
At the moment my lit search seems to have been confined to facebook, asos, amazon, trade me and here.
Not so successful, although I have bought a new skirt and bench.

Sorry O/T
Seriously though - any articles would be gratefully received
This whole thread is grist for the mill really

If anyone is interested in the idea of privilege - I just came across this (although I haven't screened it properly)
white privillege
or this
readings about racism and other interesting stuff


I think it's important to realise that we don't all have the same fertile soil to grow in. I'm not a believer in meritocracy or the american dream. The exception to the rule, is an exception and we need to think about why we are advantaged as much as why others are disadvantaged.
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Old Sep 7th 2011, 7:46 am
  #56  
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Default Re: You're white supremacists now...

Originally Posted by pricklykina
Dear Bourbon biscuit
Would you like to write my loom essay on Racism, Privilege and Maori health?
It all sounds very worthy but tonight I am potting Grapefruit & Ginger Marmalade and nothing will deter me from this. I'm doing it tonight because I have my very own assignment deadline looming, which I am procrastinating from
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Old Sep 7th 2011, 8:08 am
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Default Re: You're white supremacists now...

Originally Posted by bourbon-biscuit
Charismatic, you can't go to the Oxford Dictionary for exact definitions of complex terms! Within the field of social science, psychology etc racism by definition exists where there is a power differential. I'm not defending Prof Mutu, I'm just saying that that is how it is.

Go look up any term more complicated than 'apple' and you'll find the Oxford Dictionary provides a simplistic over view. If you go and read up about it in a dictionary with subject authority you'll get a better handle on it- in our house we have music and medical dictionaries and I would go to both those for an understanding of terms within those fields.
Rubbish. Whilst words can have technical meanings not in common use, if you are using such words on the public stage youd think you anticipate how it may be recieved. People dont run to dictionaries all the time.

Yeah, freedom of speech and all that means these people can say these things. But that also means we can castigate them for their ridiculous opinions and the fact that this person is an 'academic' employed by a university makes the university look a bunch of idiots.

This rather stupid woman is quoted as having said "Racism is definitely associated with power " and that is blatantly not true , either in pub talk or academic talk.
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Old Sep 7th 2011, 8:24 am
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Default Re: You're white supremacists now...

According to the Stuff website report today "a number of radio listeners have defended Mutu on the talkback show because they believed Maori were not given enough say on immigration rules. "

So what they want is be more important purely because of a small element of their ethnic heritage? These people are nuts.
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Old Sep 7th 2011, 9:39 am
  #59  
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Default Re: You're white supremacists now...

Originally Posted by Browner_

This rather stupid woman is quoted as having said "Racism is definitely associated with power " and that is blatantly not true , either in pub talk or academic talk.
Not that stupid, pal- she's a professor

It's interesting you call her stupid because you think she should only use terms according to a laypersons understanding of them. It's interesting that you call her stupid at all, for daring to have an opinion that's not your own, when she clearly isn't stupid and I'd hazard a guess is better educated than you. I think your posts say more about you than about her.

See, I'm not getting angry with her, even though I know I'm not remotely racist, nor carry any inclination toward white supremacy. I think she's opened up something we need to talk about in NZ and I'm comfortable having that conversation. Why are you so angry Browner?
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Old Sep 7th 2011, 10:01 am
  #60  
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Default Re: You're white supremacists now...

Originally Posted by bourbon-biscuit
Not that stupid, pal- she's a professor

It's interesting you call her stupid because you think she should only use terms according to a laypersons understanding of them. It's interesting that you call her stupid at all, for daring to have an opinion that's not your own, when she clearly isn't stupid and I'd hazard a guess is better educated than you. I think your posts say more about you than about her.

See, I'm not getting angry with her, even though I know I'm not remotely racist, nor carry any inclination toward white supremacy. I think she's opened up something we need to talk about in NZ and I'm comfortable having that conversation. Why are you so angry Browner?
Ha ha , Im angry that stupid people like hers opinions get give some credibility cos she somehow became an 'academic', despite the fact that a majority of people seem to stand against what she says.

This 'stupid' person has stood up and said that white immigration is a bad thing cos the overwhelming majority of us are racists, and thats a crock of sh*t. Yeah I was born white and in England to a relatively affluent family.
But my father and grandfathers generation spent much of their lives fighting world wars against nationalism, racism and genocide and ended up keeping much of the world (including NZ) from a much worse fate than what they have now. So to hear this idiotic woman spout off with attitudes that may seem appropriate to 1850 is beyond acceptability to me.

If there are examples of racism then lets get them into the open and deal with them, but this 'stupid' woman hasnt done that in an academic way, she has just spouted racist propaganda.
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