barnsleymat

I don't see what that's got to do with White Supremacy. I'm not that interested in Maori history, doesn't make me a right wing racist. It just ain't my thing, i'm sure there's many people moved to the UK that aren't interested in British history.

Charismatic

Being a little more serious for a moment, I think we stereotype people all the time. We take subtle clues from their body language, clothing, speech etc. and make judgments about them. We do this because it works well and is frequently reinforced by our observations.

I don’t think it’s any great secret that most people who move here are educated and middle class or that Maori tend to earn less:
Or have lower educational attainment rates:
So unless we can separate out the class component I doubt racism is the real issue.

pricklykina

Interestingly, when class is accounted for , Maori (and Pasifika for that matter) continue to do worse.
Pakeha, when they experience severe hardship or poverty experience it for less time than Maori and are more likely to have family members that are not living in poverty. Pakeha when on benefits, for example, are more likely to receive a larger income from those benefits than an equivalent Maori family

My understanding is that when all of those confounding variables are taking into account, then it appears like one of the major drivers of the Maori / Pakeha disparities comes down to good old fashioned racism

Hard to swallow as much of it is insidious, and ancient and not actioned by us nice people that don;t view ourself as racist
However our enviable and privileged position is maintained at the expense of others

Charismatic

Margaret Mutu may have a point in one respect though. Immigrants aren't tied to the history of a place by birth, they don't feel as culpable for the mistakes of their ancestors. This is particularly important to Maori of course because they place much grievance upon the failure of New Zealand governments to implement parts of the treaty or they willingness to interpret the treaty to their benefit.

You could argue that its legacy with the British people should be upheld regardless of its historic basis or stake individuals had in this, that is to say we carry a historic debt of gratitude to Maori forward through generations eternally.

In my view this is one of the best arguments against the continued importance of the treaty and one of the primary reasons we need a more lasting solution. Many that upholding crown steak in it have never benefitted through land acquisition (estate inheritance has changed dramatically in the last two generations) yet continue to pay some price to uphold the treaty on behalf of the crown and New Zealand government.

The treaty was written acknowledging two distinct groups in society, Maori and the British which was pragmatic at the time but since it has become blurred where these divisions are situated (to such an extent legal definitions are now needed to demark where Maori stop and Europeans begin). In addition the Crown now represents people from countries far beyond what the Maori could have envisioned in signing the treaty.

This may also be one of the best cases for a declared republic, to move away from the historic legacy of irrelevant cultural separation and towards embracing our common New Zealandness. Europeans and Maori being as equal in indistinct groups embracing a more homogeneous and equal model of society.

That's why I'm a proper racist you see, advocating cultural assimilation and working towards a common good in a more deliberate manner.

Charismatic

Really? My success is at the expense of others? Talk about a major socialist guilt trip .

You would have to work very hard to convince me that, for example, having scientists who improve crop yields is at the greater expense of society somehow. In a race between labor and ingenuity I'd pick the latter every time, people can work smarter but they can't always work harder.

pricklykina

Luckily I don't need to try to convince you Charismatic and I'm not at my most eloquent at this time of night
(that makes me sound like I might be a bit pished - I'm not!)

As my years have passed in this country, I become more and more aware of how the institutions are set up to favour people like me

Sure we say that everyone has the same opportunities but I don't see that and therefore don't believe that.

I think that we have swallowed the myth whole heartedly of us being the best country in the world for race relations and that causes some people to get a bit lazy about how things really are for Maori in NZ

Since the 1800s we have seen layer upon layer of policies that were designed to support the settlers and stymie Maori
This is what NZ's foundation is.

As a migrant I certainly hold no sense of guilt about this - why should I?
But I do feel a sense of responsibility to do something about the current gaping disparities.

lardyl

but does what Margaret Mutu say and the way she says it help to acheive any of these goals.

somehow I doubt it.

my 2 cents :- although I agree that we all have "working sterotypes/prejudices" as suggested by Charismatic, the apparent underlying level of racism as shown by what I hear coming from white (european and african) mouths in NZ is higher than what I came accross in the UK.
Maybe that is down to PC-ness being detested by many in NZ or maybe it's down to real hatred/distrust or perhaps it's a response to Margaret Mutus and Hone Harawiras of this world.

lardyl

Having read the Stuff article now all this seems to become a little clearer....
Mutu is in fact Enoch Powell and the Maori Party is the NF or BNP......or maybe SNP

So are Maori quite so stupid that they think that Asians are less racist than the Europeans....?
Ever lived, worked and schooled with guys from Kashmir, Hindustan, Pakistan, China etc, etc many of them make Eugene Terrablanche look like David Steel.
Ever seen how those groups integrate with other minorities?
Perhpas that's what the "Maori Elite" want, other groups that will simply remain a minority and not challenge their status so that the country can be browned-out by demographics.
I feel a conspiracy theory coming on........

Expat Kiwi

Yes but that has nothing to do with the colour of their immigrant skin, neither does it make them white supremacists. To be frank with you there are many New Zealanders who are just as ignorant as immigrants and couldn't give a stuff about the treaty. In my experience immigrants do make an effort to find out something about NZ culture.

What her comments do demonstrate is that racism isn't something that just 'white' people suffer from and I'm glad to see her comments are being challenged by other Maori.

lardyl

Yep I've got lots of time for Rankin too.
Most of what I've heard from him makes sense.

Charismatic

Well that's the racist door slammed shut on us, back to multicultural tree hugging and riding ethnic peace bicycles .

Charismatic

Does she get the sack?

No.

I hope her fellow professors are listening to this, it'll be bloody carte blanche!

The very same university yesterday paid $10,000 because a doctor told a medical student her cultural background was holding her back which hurt her feeling? Yes, they did.

When did she gain expertise on being an expat?

That's the level of "expertise" you need to justify racist comments?

Charismatic

Does she recant?

No, she restates.

Browner_

Could some one tell what good this stupid person is actually supposed to do at the university?

Or is she purely representing the interests of one small minority group?

In my experience, those people that study, try hard at school, read books and try and better themselves all their life are the ones that generally get the good jobs and opportunities.
Those that sit on their fat lazy arse thinking the world owes them a living smoking dope tend to be the ones who end up doing the shovelling.
Nothing to do with race.
We all know the world aint perfect, and some people get hard done by thru no fault of their own, but her solutions are laughable.

Charismatic

I thought I'd send them a nice e-mail:



Seems fair doesn't it? I mean you can't hide behind being an "expert" on society to make provocative and possibly offensive comments you aren't ready or willing to defend.