southerner

Pre..90% of those I was overseas with were graduates, so the type of high school quals was largely irrelevant.

Nerine

A degree is a degree though isn't it, I'd expect the quality of graduates from most westernised countries to be about the same. My husband employed a few Aussie grads in the UK (not any kiwis though) and found them to very adaptable, willing to think outside the box etc. Most grads learn on the job though.

Most of the Australasian grads I knew worked mostly in bars and nightclubs!

Don't hear much about antipodean tradies in the UK though, wonder why that is when the wages are so good?

spid

Nope, in Scotland for the time being.

lardyl

depends on what you want the degree for......
just look at Speech Therapy - NZ grads can't practice in Aus as their degrees ain't good enough, not up to Aus or UK standards. So if you get that degree in NZ it ain't gonna get you the opportunities that you'd get with an Aus degree......
Just ask your friends what nationality of GP they would rather have and you would be suprised. In NZ I have heard more people going for South Africans that Kiwi or any other doctors - perhaps it is the historical entry and teaching standards in SA's medical schools.
Having seen the rapid expansion in tertiary education throughout the western world I would say for many voactional and professional roles, "a degree is *not* a degree", unless you just want to show that a person is capable of taking a tertiary course and then there must be significant issues with some types of degree and some institutions.
A degree in combined studies from South Bank Poly ain't gonna be the same as PPE from Oxford or engineering from Cambridge/Imperial College/MIT/Caltech.
If that was not the case then nobody would be interested in private education, pay college fees or be obsessed with educational standards......
When we were recruiting in the UK the test for not binning a CV before first interview was first or 2.1 in science/engineering from a top tier university, followed by relevant experience. Later we pretty much ditched the experience side but kept the academic standards. It's by the by but lots of the more recent grads with these good degrees had no practical ability at problem solving so they got ditched before second or third interview.
/climbs out of his ivory tower into the real world of bed/

Poppy2

Dear lord what have you raised all this for on THIS thread? Me thinks you have to get over that my opinions dont match yours regarding where our own personal paradise is. And if I am not mistaken, there are countless posters here who have made mention of the general Maori issues, and I dont think that it was a point I laboured.......... But thanks for the history lesson regarding Motua gardens - saw the film at Te Papa and of course.......oh yes............lived there for 4 years

And what is that last comment about?? I also had a crappy Secondary Modern Education......................are you wrongly assuming that I was privately schooled? Jeez unbunch the knickers there. And it was with my education that I have been able to travel and live in the countries I have, so not done me too badly either! I think you have rather taken things all too personally and it is very evident in what you have written ie not much to do with the original point.

Yes - Lardyl is totally right. There are lots of Health Care Qualifications that are not acceptable outside of NZ and they are degree based courses. How many start first level degree courses and finish them? How many enter into Masters level courses? How many stay within NZ? And why does that South Island Uni offer no tuition fees?

My comment regarding underschooled was not said to offend those with children in the system there - each child is more than capable of succeeding and doing well in NZ. My comment was regarding how by direct comparison other countries push harder and do the same things that NZ kids do, years earlier. I am not the only person to notice this, since moving away.

Kiwiprincess

Nerine - where in the UK are you from? The reason I ask is i suspect they all went to London! When i lived there (much to my mothers horror i might add) many of my kiwi friends/acquaintances/friends of friends were builders. There were a lot of them around. Far too many. I used to come downstairs for breakfast some weekends and find some scuzzy builder (ok, friend) asleep on my sofa. Incidentally they never had a problem getting work - and not as labourers before anyone asks!!

As for the other issues being mentioned of NZers being insular, never expecting to leave, being happy with "their lot" well, i think that is partly down to parents and their environment. If the parents (and town/environment) is insular that will rub off onto their children (in both countries). I grew up expecting (for want of a better word) to go to university and expecting that i would be able to travel. That hasn't changed. I do know people, however, from environments where this is not encouraged who seemed surprised at someone choosing to be educated or choosing to travel simply because they themselves weren't brought up that way, or encouraged. And, i might add - one of those people are from Whangarei, and another other is from a little town in, i think, suffolk (point being obvious )

Yours kids may leave, but they may come home. A friend of mine growing up in Wellington was British. Her mother, for family reasons, made the decision to move the family back to the UK. 2 of the kids stayed in NZ to do their degrees/finish school. The other 2 children returned with her and did their degrees in the UK. All 4 children are now back in NZ ie they chose to come back. Which means that my friends mother who returned to the UK to be closer to her family is now in the position of having all her children return to where they grew up. All are in their late 20s to early 30s. None of them have been 'disadvantaged' by a kiwi education or upbringing. They may well chose to go back to the UK (England) where their parents are, but they certainly haven't been disadvantaged.

ranting again. i will stop now.

Kiwiprincess

Surely there are a lot that are though? I knew a lot of kiwis in the UK (due to my job) and there were a lot working in hospitals and various surgeries. Not saying it isn't true, just the fact that there must be many that are trained and able to work. Heck, St Georges (Tooting, London) and St Heliers (Rosehill, Surrey) were almost completely staffed by antipodean staff. Perhaps though, their quals didn't allow for senior management/senior healthcare professional positions? Not saying what you are saying is untrue but i knew a lot of nurses who were working there. As for not being recognised there - perhaps the issue is that they degree focused on different things therefore of course further study would be required?

Kiwiprincess

Or perhaps they can only be employed on a temporary basis until sitting further quals?

spid

Thanks this is the type of response I was after.

Kippers

Not to labour this one, but you did try to dismiss Motua as just an annual event.
The point being that you ended up in a distinctly down market town with little or no shopping opportunities and an unmotivated population.
A warning to others who want to succeed with migration perhaps?

Perhaps personally, as I do have working class roots. That's why NZ suits me so well.

Can't give you any statistics on withdrawal rates from university, but many countries reject other countries qualifications as many migrants to NZ find when they come to settle here. It cuts both ways.

Southland Poly by the way, offers no fees. Great marketing

Thank you. Your comments were a trifle OTT.

I do understand that say, Britain, pushes it's kids harder to pass exams. That is currently one of the major criticisms of the UK education system and the reason so many young people are reporting worrying health problems over there.

Kip

Poppy2

OK................I am a midwife. I can easily work in NZ because of the standard of training I recieved, the hands on practical numbers of cases I cared for and witnessed. That is seen as standard in the UK. 40 deliveries (delivered by me) and 40 abnormal deliveries (witnessed by me) etc. The Midwives trained in NZ have something like 30 deliveries that they account for, of which it is mute point if they need to actually deliver them themselves. When these midwives wish to work in the UK, they need to upskill.

Never having worked as a nurse in NZ and not knowing nurses that I can ask that are NZ /Aus trained, cant comment about what is required for them to work in the UK. Of course once criteria have been met, they can work freely, my point is sometimes there is additional stuff that may be needed to meet the otherwise basic requirement, as in with midwifery. I worked with Australian nurses, never worked with NZ ones in the UK.

I cant be bothered with somantics, I am not about to go email the NMC in the UK and ask them what an NZ nurse might be required to do to work there, to prove my point. I dont actually know if an NZ nurse would need to do anything, I was refering in my mind to midwives and other healthcare professionals that I have heard of.

My 10 year old is a direct example of how different the 2 systems of education are (Canadian v NZ). The bar has been well and truly raised for us, it knocks spots off what he had for the last 4 years. Powerpoint presentations, early languages, far more strict and results led ( not examinations, but points and fun rewards for group work)just to name a few things. My son was still learning about how caterpillars turned into butterflies (?) in year 5 NZ, but in Canada grade 5 he is doing major projects, using multimedia, computer skills that I dont have (graphics/animation) and using high grade materials to build prototypes, rather than recycling stuff to make a snail house (NZ ). Dont get me wrong, that is great for some and of course there will be kids who excell thanks to the schooling, themselves and wonderful parents. My child wasnt blossoming and wasnt looking like he would be capable of higher education, we were both very alarmed. Now he comes home with a huge smile on his face, he is rising to the challenge, we are working hard with his homework to consolidate all that is new to him and he is loving school. And before someone says that our NZ school was a poor example, it was the best decile point school in the town and highly sought after. Of course I am being very fascitious and there was no doubt far more educationally going on in year 5, but it was nothing like the intensity and qaulity of here. I make a generalised point about his previous education in NZ, it is not a balanced reflection at all.

Its just my opinion based upon my experience, we can argue the toss all day about it, but that is what it is.

Poppy2

Sorry, I dont think that Wanganui is that different to a lot of towns in NZ. None of them are terribly *up market*, few places have great shopping opportunities and an unmotivated population is certainly not something that I really talked about. Thats not the issue, you putting down Wanganui so that you can make my points seemingly invalid rather suggests that its a back water in the back water that NZ can be called at times. I have been to far more back water-ish places in NZ...............are you living in Hawera by any chance?

Kiwiprincess

fair enough then

Poppy2

I forgot to say that you are quite right in what you said earlier - kids may leave, but they also may well come back again. I know lots of kiwis who travelled and worked abroad when they were single, but have come back to live, work and raise their kids in NZ. There is much more to raising a family in NZ than simply what they learn at the blackboard, and that is what people really value...........as we did. The outdoors stuff, the safety, the laid back approach. No, its not all bad, far, far from it. Where else in the world would your 3 year old go to kindi and be able to play with real nails, saws, bits of wood and handle things that are so enticing to small hands and usually kept temptingly out of reach. NZ's approach is practical, down to earth and lets kids be kids for longer. Cant argue with that. Just wasnt quite enough for our 10 year old who needed so much more writing, reading and maths support. Our 5 year old would have sailed through the NZ system and achieved in a very different way however.

happynz

Decile ratings reflect the socio-economic level of the area in which the school draws students, not the 'quality' of the school. Of course, in areas that have higher incomes and such one might expect some spillover effect. However, having said that I remember having a discussion with a high school teacher about schools and I mentioned that Cashmere High School must be pretty special seeing as how it is a decile ten school. The cynical reply was that all it meant was that the students could afford better drugs.