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You may have PR but be aware....

You may have PR but be aware....

Old Mar 27th 2008, 3:41 am
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Default You may have PR but be aware....

We have PR and arrived 2.5 years ago to our new life in new zealand (and loving it still), I had to return to the UK a couple of weeks ago for a family funeral . We (me and 3 kids) got last minute flights and flew out less than 24 hours after booking - I did a quick check on passports being in date - yes (although had to obtain a quickie passport for the latest addition to the family who is now kiwi) - this was obtained in less than 24 hours (really good service)..... on returning to NZ however it became apparent that our "returning residents permits" were out of date (by 16 days) for 3 of us (obviously 6 month old kiwi didn't need one). Expensive mistake to make - nearly got pulled from the plane at Heathrow as they realised their mistake, then had to pay £3000 for returning tickets to proove that we were "just visiting new zealand"(!!?) .... in the process now of getting refund on the £3k flights and this will take 6-8 weeks from air new zealand.

Just a reminder to all - even though you have PR check that all the other permits are in date!!!

AND NEVER FLY SOLO with 3 kids on a 28 hour flight
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Old Mar 27th 2008, 3:50 am
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Exclamation Re: You may have PR but be aware....

Originally Posted by P18PPS View Post
We have PR and arrived 2.5 years ago to our new life in new zealand (and loving it still), I had to return to the UK a couple of weeks ago for a family funeral . We (me and 3 kids) got last minute flights and flew out less than 24 hours after booking - I did a quick check on passports being in date - yes (although had to obtain a quickie passport for the latest addition to the family who is now kiwi) - this was obtained in less than 24 hours (really good service)..... on returning to NZ however it became apparent that our "returning residents permits" were out of date (by 16 days) for 3 of us (obviously 6 month old kiwi didn't need one). Expensive mistake to make - nearly got pulled from the plane at Heathrow as they realised their mistake, then had to pay £3000 for returning tickets to proove that we were "just visiting new zealand"(!!?) .... in the process now of getting refund on the £3k flights and this will take 6-8 weeks from air new zealand.

Just a reminder to all - even though you have PR check that all the other permits are in date!!!

AND NEVER FLY SOLO with 3 kids on a 28 hour flight
I assume that you have checked with New Zealand immigration that by entering on a tourist visa you have not invalidated your PR?!? If you have you would need to apply again from scratch.


Edit: I guess that immigration revalidated your RRV at the desk?

Last edited by ex_exile; Mar 27th 2008 at 4:10 am.
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Old Mar 27th 2008, 4:43 am
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Default Re: You may have PR but be aware....

This must be something that happens quite a lot, not everyone realises that their PR effectively expires if they leave the country after 2 years, and it's easy to overlook in the circumstances such as the one you were faced with.

The airline was a bit naughty for not checking your visa expiry date before issuing you with a return ticket.

It's a long shot but is there any way you can reclaim your money? maybe through the airline perhaps?
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Old Mar 27th 2008, 4:50 am
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Default Re: You may have PR but be aware....

A returning residency visa has to be changed to an indefinite returning visa. This can be done once you have been here 2 years I believe. That was certainly what we had to do after 2 years of being here, we have been in and out of the country four or five times and had no problems. Hope all goes well with getting your money back.
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Old Mar 27th 2008, 5:04 am
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Default Re: You may have PR but be aware....

Originally Posted by Nerine View Post
This must be something that happens quite a lot, not everyone realises that their PR effectively expires if they leave the country after 2 years, and it's easy to overlook in the circumstances such as the one you were faced with.

The airline was a bit naughty for not checking your visa expiry date before issuing you with a return ticket.

It's a long shot but is there any way you can reclaim your money? maybe through the airline perhaps?
With New Zealand technically your PR expires whenever you leave the country, a new residence permit is issued on return. If you read your RRV it says that "The holder may travel to New Zealand an on application shall be granted a residence permit"
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Old Mar 27th 2008, 6:22 am
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Default Re: You may have PR but be aware....

Maybe the airline should've read it?
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Old Mar 27th 2008, 6:40 am
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Default Re: You may have PR but be aware....

Originally Posted by Nerine View Post
Maybe the airline should've read it?
The RRV has an expiry date though unless its an IRRV. Why would the airline check the RRV before issuing a return ticket? They might be be expected to ensure that you are legal on the outward journey but the return could be a long way off.

Last edited by ex_exile; Mar 27th 2008 at 6:45 am.
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Old Mar 27th 2008, 6:46 am
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Default Re: You may have PR but be aware....

So sorry to hear this happened to you. What a nightmare.
NZ PR visa is not straight forward, and not clear. I was flying back from business from Melbourne and AirNZ checked my visa 4 times, before allowing me to check in. The Australian ground staff said this happens a lot, as the NZ visas are so complicated compared to others.
I actually think IMHO the returning resident visa is a bit silly and unnecessary.
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Old Mar 27th 2008, 7:59 am
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Default Re: You may have PR but be aware....

Originally Posted by NZBee View Post
So sorry to hear this happened to you. What a nightmare.
NZ PR visa is not straight forward, and not clear. I was flying back from business from Melbourne and AirNZ checked my visa 4 times, before allowing me to check in. The Australian ground staff said this happens a lot, as the NZ visas are so complicated compared to others.
I actually think IMHO the returning resident visa is a bit silly and unnecessary.
if you got rid of IRRV for PR then all those immigrants who give up their jobs exactly 3 months after arriving on PR (or once they get their PR turned into RRV) would bugger off and come back when it suits........
at least this system requires the applicant to show some commitment to NZ.
what I think is mad is the exit fee and visa costs (esp for those already on visitor visas here who want to hop over the Tasmin for a holiday) - or the system that allows "visitors" to "renew" their visitor's visa that way.......
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Old Mar 27th 2008, 8:12 am
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Default Re: You may have PR but be aware....

Originally Posted by ex_exile View Post
The RRV has an expiry date though unless its an IRRV. Why would the airline check the RRV before issuing a return ticket? They might be be expected to ensure that you are legal on the outward journey but the return could be a long way off.
I agree, the airline only will check at the airport. Most people book online these days, hence most airlines will put a warning message on their website inviting people to check if they have the correct travel documents before they confirm ticket purchases. I guess it's the traveller's responsability to do so when they book online

However the vast majority of travel agents will ask people if they have the correct visas for their entire stay when they book

Visa issues are pretty strict at the airport, especially because airline staff can be put on the line if they make mistakes (ie let someone board with the incorrect visa). I think airlines are fined about US$3000 per passenger who gets stopped at the border with wrong travel docs, if Immigration need to put them back on the next available plane When I went to Melbourne (1st time leaving NZ), my RRV was also tripled checked, and also when I went back to Europe last November.


Jen

Last edited by urbanproject; Mar 27th 2008 at 8:20 am.
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Old Mar 27th 2008, 9:49 am
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Default Re: You may have PR but be aware....

Originally Posted by P18PPS View Post
We have PR and arrived 2.5 years ago to our new life in new zealand (and loving it still), I had to return to the UK a couple of weeks ago for a family funeral . We (me and 3 kids) got last minute flights and flew out less than 24 hours after booking - I did a quick check on passports being in date - yes (although had to obtain a quickie passport for the latest addition to the family who is now kiwi) - this was obtained in less than 24 hours (really good service)..... on returning to NZ however it became apparent that our "returning residents permits" were out of date (by 16 days) for 3 of us (obviously 6 month old kiwi didn't need one). Expensive mistake to make - nearly got pulled from the plane at Heathrow as they realised their mistake, then had to pay £3000 for returning tickets to proove that we were "just visiting new zealand"(!!?) .... in the process now of getting refund on the £3k flights and this will take 6-8 weeks from air new zealand.

Just a reminder to all - even though you have PR check that all the other permits are in date!!!

AND NEVER FLY SOLO with 3 kids on a 28 hour flight

Ouch...expensive lesson..
Others are right, if you read the fine print on the Residence PERMIT you will see it says something like "holder may remain in NZ indefinately. Permit expires once holder leaves NZ".

What did immigration stamp in your passports when you returned. If they did not stamp your passports with new RESIDENCE PERMITS then technically you are still without permanent residence permits, and will need to get that sorted out. technically it was your returning resident VISAS that were out of date, not the Residence PERMITS.

it may not be a big issue, because with the amount of time youve spent in Nz you will qualify for Indefinite RRVs, and subsequently residence permits, but you still need to apply for those and ensure you have residence permits as well, you dont want to get tripped up by being technically without residence later on when its too late to easily rectify it.

Last edited by newkiwi; Mar 27th 2008 at 10:55 am.
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Old Mar 27th 2008, 10:46 am
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Default Re: You may have PR but be aware....

Originally Posted by urbanproject View Post
I agree, the airline only will check at the airport. Most people book online these days, hence most airlines will put a warning message on their website inviting people to check if they have the correct travel documents before they confirm ticket purchases. I guess it's the traveller's responsability to do so when they book online

However the vast majority of travel agents will ask people if they have the correct visas for their entire stay when they book

Visa issues are pretty strict at the airport, especially because airline staff can be put on the line if they make mistakes (ie let someone board with the incorrect visa). I think airlines are fined about US$3000 per passenger who gets stopped at the border with wrong travel docs, if Immigration need to put them back on the next available plane When I went to Melbourne (1st time leaving NZ), my RRV was also tripled checked, and also when I went back to Europe last November.


Jen
Airlines not only get fined, they have to bear the cost of returning anyone refused entry to any country, back to their point of origin.
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Old Mar 27th 2008, 11:31 am
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Default Re: You may have PR but be aware....

Heys guys this has ALWAYS bothered me how safe is IRRV? does anyone know?can they move the goalposts and suddenly decide the rules have changed? its always best to get citizenship i know but sometimes its a cheaper option for some people.
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Old Mar 27th 2008, 11:59 am
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Default Re: You may have PR but be aware....

Originally Posted by Patrick2007 View Post
Heys guys this has ALWAYS bothered me how safe is IRRV? does anyone know?can they move the goalposts and suddenly decide the rules have changed? its always best to get citizenship i know but sometimes its a cheaper option for some people.
Indefinate Returning Resident VISAS are valid indefinately. They give you the right to travel to NZ. You get them after your initial two year RRVs are up. You do not get IRRVs when you are first granted residency, you are given RRVs with a set expiry date.

Residence PERMITS give you the right to stay in NZ permanently, but expire when you leave the country. You then need a valid visa to get back into the country and be given a new residence permit. Every time your passport is stamped when you return to Nz after any holiday etc abroad you are actually being given a new residence permit, because you are in possession of a valid resident visa.

Resident permits and visas are a lot easier for the government to cancel, for instance if you commit a serious offence (rape, murder, crimes against children, serious fraud etc) and the NZ Government decide they dont want you living there anymore the minister can cancel your permit and visa and kick you out. Revoking citizenship is a lot harder, pretty much only if it is proven citizenship was obtained fraudulently.

Getting that second RRV that is valid indefinately after your first one's expires is something everyone should look at doing, being in Nz with expired RRVs is perfectly ok, until as happened you suddenly need to leave NZ for whatever reason.

Last edited by newkiwi; Mar 27th 2008 at 12:03 pm.
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Old Mar 27th 2008, 12:00 pm
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Default Re: You may have PR but be aware....

Originally Posted by P18PPS View Post
We have PR and arrived 2.5 years ago to our new life in new zealand (and loving it still), I had to return to the UK a couple of weeks ago for a family funeral . We (me and 3 kids) got last minute flights and flew out less than 24 hours after booking - I did a quick check on passports being in date - yes (although had to obtain a quickie passport for the latest addition to the family who is now kiwi) - this was obtained in less than 24 hours (really good service)..... on returning to NZ however it became apparent that our "returning residents permits" were out of date (by 16 days) for 3 of us (obviously 6 month old kiwi didn't need one). Expensive mistake to make - nearly got pulled from the plane at Heathrow as they realised their mistake, then had to pay £3000 for returning tickets to proove that we were "just visiting new zealand"(!!?) .... in the process now of getting refund on the £3k flights and this will take 6-8 weeks from air new zealand.

Just a reminder to all - even though you have PR check that all the other permits are in date!!!

AND NEVER FLY SOLO with 3 kids on a 28 hour flight
What a f###er
This seems a big can of worms.
So I presume you should have applied to have the RRV re-newed?? (once in NZ).
We need to be in NZ by October this year before our RRV runs out, then just supposing we had to dash back (ie. funeral etc), we would not have the correct 'documentation' to return to NZ???????????????
Am I understanding this right??

Cheers Jads
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