simonsi

Well not to be pedantic but "walked in" refers to ease as well as transport. Visa overstayers and those who have entered on false visa (referred to as "many" in your quote), probably count as both

kimilseung

I like Pinkies attitude, I started to leave that attitude behind at least 15 years ago, its last embers went with having a family, some might call it growing up. But I admire her spirit. I think she might also be teaching her kids a thing or two about independence and a 'have a go to life' attitude, but of course there are risks and I like people with a healthy disregard to rules.

Good luck to you Pinkie.

Pom_Chch

Here here!

Perhaps some of our words could be viewed as a little harsh. The way I see it if you post ridiculous things like that on a forum in front of people who have fought long and hard to get into NZ it's bound to russel a few feathers! But hey it's all done with now and we haven't heard anything from Pinky. Perhaps she's now in Auckland or Wellington

kimilseung

Well I did not do it for NZ, but the issues are universal. I did think about going to the US dodgywise. I am glad I did not as it could have messed up my chances of living in the US long term. or at least made life very very difficult, so I am glad I did it the 'long and hard' way.

Isn't a lot of the objections to doing things Pinky style, based on jealousy and resentment. jealous because we did not have the nerve to try it and resentment at the lost time and money that it cost us. It all gets wrapped up in a layer of respect for laws. Immigration laws are a little bit different from many other laws, they do not protect our persons from violence or our hard earned property from theft. They are there to make sure that the haves continue to have and the have nots continue to have not. How many supporters of immigrations laws are also true supporters of laissez-faire market place capitalism? If so, then shouldn't the market find the balance of immigration, people would continue to enter the country while there are advantages and when those advantages stop, so will the immigration. Immigration law is in place to hinder the market place of free movement of people. It is there to protect our privilege.

I just wish that more people would admit that they are against people breaking immigration law because it threatens their privilege, and not because there is anything inherently immoral about doing it.

hazeandsteve

With this being an essentially British expat discussion forum, I think you'll find a lot of the animosity comes from experience (or tabloid horror stories) of immigration, legal or otherwise, having a negative effect on the lives of resident nationals in UK.
The tales of asylum seekers passing through fifteen European states to finally reach sanctuary in UK caused resentment.
Families struggling to afford housing while council housed large families of immigrants caused resentment.
Cheap Eastern European tradesmen, who were willing to work long hours for low pay in order to send money to their families at home caused resentment.

I'm not speaking from extensive personal experience, although the third example did indeed affect me. When we left in 2007, my aircraft engineer pay rates were below what was being paid for effectively the same job in 1998. My bills however had risen, leaving me in a net poorer by the year situation. A large contributor of our migration.
I am aware this puts me in the same situation as the Polish plumbers, and sympathise with them entirely. They are legal workers, wanting only to better their lives, and are resented for it. This kind of shows why the illegal workers are disliked even more.

It's not just jealousy, some people have legally enterred NZ and don't want to see the same decline in national standards that they left behind.

As for Pinky.....seems to me that the problem I had with her was that she has decided a course of action, and without regard to her own understanding of the legalities, has decided that she is right. Not that she disagrees with the rules, just that she is right. She was offered advice, experience, even helpful hints, but decides to ignore them all.
You can only sympathise so much.

simonsi

Welfare society distorts your free-market-immigration model though, while your mere presence in a country brings entitlements, getting in must have a balancing cost otherwise you will have unsustainable demand.

You patently couldnt have half the Chinese poulation up sticks and move to "better" places around the world, they wouldnt stay "better" for long. Many immigrants around the world still send money to their home country, further distorting the economies of both source and host countries.

So currently, immigration law is a good thing, suggesting flouting it to an audience of people who have overwhelmingly followed it was always going to get similar reaction.

And the priveledge of which you speak has been worked, earned and paid for, your statement is like saying I am unreasonable for protecting my house from other people wanting to live in it....because it has been worked, earned and paid for you can expect it to be defended from freeloaders....

Caz8NZ

totally agree and your whole answer summed this up quite nicely but particularly this bit.

The UK has a great multi cultural society - but its relaxed immigration policy and ability to absorb and hide illegal immigrants has meant its overflowing.

A strict immigration policy is frustrating for those that want to immigrate to another country but can't as they don't meet the criteria but it is important to understand why countries have it.

Having a policy that will only allow people in who are skilled is important. People can be considered skilled in many ways and sometimes this can translate to having a company who is already willing to offer you a job - being able to find work, therefore contributing towards the economy, not taking away from it, is an important part of settling in a new country.

NZ's immigration policy is actually fairly relaxed in comparison to many other countries and they do make it much easier for people to emigrate here. I would have had no chance of being able to do this in Australia as I do not have a degree. In NZ, they take into account the years of experience of work that I have and what I can contribute and then that I have held down a job here for 18 months, therefore been able to integrate into society. Is my job skilled - that's all a matter of opinion - it is on the list of jobs on the skilled migrant list as it many many others. hundreds in fact that you would expect to be on there - BUT with many years of experience and a job offer, NZ immigration determine that you will be able to give a valuable contribution to their country so will allow you to stay. I think that's a sensible policy that allows a wide variety of people to come here and increase the population but leaving out the people who can't contribute towards the growth of the country.

kimilseung

Oh I did not say unreasonable at all, I am with you, I want to protect what I have. I am just at ease to express that I am happy to want to protect my privilege. I do not believe that I have worked harder than a farmer tilling a semi-barren slice of land in another country. I question that I or most other people have made significant contributions to our societies. We, or most of us are just cogs in the wheels, helping towards a common end. I feel I have been blessed by the country of my birth, and I stand upon the shoulders of those before me.

simonsi

I think you will find it doesn't matter how had you worked or for what, if someone you know who hasn't worked tries to take it off you then it sucks....

And I don't think your notion of priviledge applies, after all there are people here (inc me), that are defending the immigration policies of a country we were not born into so have no "priviledge" here.

Chris-Napier

Here here.....well said!!!