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Why we won't be emigrating to New Zealand

Why we won't be emigrating to New Zealand

Old Jan 22nd 2006, 9:58 pm
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Default Re: Why we won't be emigrating to New Zealand

Excellent post SFB, can identify with much of what you say.
Dont think of it as wasted money, it would have cost you lots more to sell up, go through the NZIS process, relocate etc..and find you are one of the 50% (ota) that either moves to OZ or back to the Uk.
I only wished I had viewed my holidays in NZ with the same eyes as you did, I wouldn't have come to live here.
All the best.
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Old Jan 23rd 2006, 1:19 am
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Default Re: Why we won't be emigrating to New Zealand

Yes, excellent post. That was a good account of your fact finding trip. I was thinking of Aus but the high temperatures and mozzies have made me re-think maybe NZ? After reading your report I am not so sure I would be going for the right reasons. At least you are sure thats its not for you so it wasn't a waste of time? What are you going to do now? Stay in the UK or find another place abroad that you CAN settle in?

My reasons for wanting to leave the UK are:

1. High and rising crime - too lenient jail sentences in UK. Criminals with more rights than the victims
2. Desire to buy a bigger house for far less money than in UK
3. Hopefully maintain similar wages but with lower costs. of living
4. Yob culture/binge drinking in UK
5. Loss of UK identity to Europe and their interference in our affairs
6. Tony Blair, Prescott and their cronies.
7. Just a change of living and somewhere to start afresh
8. Don't think the UK is a place I would want to raise children due everything else mentioned here and the state of bullying, out of control ASBO children who plague UK schools
9. Badly maintained UK roads full of potholes and too many cars on the roads for them to cope.
10. The war on motorists:High car taxation, rip off petrol, congestion charges, speed bumps, speed cameras
11. Poor state of public transport thats way overpriced, no wonder people don't use it.
12. Not enough police on the beat. (Too busy catching motorists probably).
13. Poor NHS service, high waiting times and we are forced to pay for it regardless if if you use it. (A lot of the time you will die waiting for treatment. I would rather opt out of paying NHS contributions and go private, but you can't.)
14. UK overcrowding and asylum seekers who contribute nothing to the UK or its economy because they don't speak english or intend to get a job, just leech.
15. Out of control numbers of 'traveller' families in caravans who park in school playing fields etc and police are powerless to move them on
16. UK overpriced property, though thats good for me if selling up to move abroad.
17. Political correctness and the 'human rights' brigade.

If I think of any more I'll add to this list. Perhaps I ought to start a new thread about this!?

I know some of these things you will get in other countries too but I am looking for a place to move to with as little of these annoyances as possible.

Last edited by martinw01908; Jan 23rd 2006 at 1:47 am.
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Old Jan 23rd 2006, 3:48 am
  #33  
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Default Re: Why we won't be emigrating to New Zealand

[QUOTE=martinw01908]
5. Loss of UK identity to Europe and their interference in our affairs [QUOTE]


If you emigrate to another country you may find that you are still missing that UK identity...

Last edited by Apple12; Jan 23rd 2006 at 3:54 am.
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Old Jan 23rd 2006, 4:12 am
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Default Re: Why we won't be emigrating to New Zealand

Been living in NZ for a few yrs now and just wanted to make sure you knew that lots of these problems exist here as well. It is certainly not the paradise it is made out to be! Yes - landscape is beautiful but still lots of social probs here too....

Yes houses are cheaper here but wages are considerably lower too for equivalent jobs. Some things are cheaper, others are not. For example, books are astronical, as are shoes and some clothing items.

Roads - the death rate on the roads here is far worse than in the UK - i am a transport planner so know about these things (lucky me!!)....

The roads are terrible in some places and road signing is pretty absymal.

Public transport is horrendous here even in Auckland. The buses are infrequent and don't go where you want to go. In addition, the trains are hopeless!!!

Having said all that I like it here and I think its important that the main reason you are moving is for a change. And as long as you don't regard NZ (or Oz) as Utopia and countries with different pluses and minuses then you will be in a far better position....
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Old Jan 23rd 2006, 5:50 am
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Default Re: Why we won't be emigrating to New Zealand

Originally Posted by martinw01908
My reasons for wanting to leave the UK are:

1. High and rising crime - too lenient jail sentences in UK. Criminals with more rights than the victims
2. Desire to buy a bigger house for far less money than in UK
3. Hopefully maintain similar wages but with lower costs. of living
4. Yob culture/binge drinking in UK
5. Loss of UK identity to Europe and their interference in our affairs
6. Tony Blair, Prescott and their cronies.
7. Just a change of living and somewhere to start afresh
8. Don't think the UK is a place I would want to raise children due everything else mentioned here and the state of bullying, out of control ASBO children who plague UK schools
9. Badly maintained UK roads full of potholes and too many cars on the roads for them to cope.
10. The war on motorists:High car taxation, rip off petrol, congestion charges, speed bumps, speed cameras
11. Poor state of public transport thats way overpriced, no wonder people don't use it.
12. Not enough police on the beat. (Too busy catching motorists probably).
13. Poor NHS service, high waiting times and we are forced to pay for it regardless if if you use it. (A lot of the time you will die waiting for treatment. I would rather opt out of paying NHS contributions and go private, but you can't.)
14. UK overcrowding and asylum seekers who contribute nothing to the UK or its economy because they don't speak english or intend to get a job, just leech.
15. Out of control numbers of 'traveller' families in caravans who park in school playing fields etc and police are powerless to move them on
16. UK overpriced property, though thats good for me if selling up to move abroad.
17. Political correctness and the 'human rights' brigade.

If I think of any more I'll add to this list. Perhaps I ought to start a new thread about this!?

I know some of these things you will get in other countries too but I am looking for a place to move to with as little of these annoyances as possible.
we've been here for nearly 4 months - not long in the scheme of things but long enough to see some of its negatives as well as many of its positives - we love it but please do your research!
some of the positives will meet your needs, some of the things you wish to avoid you won't do here - IMO:
crime is here but there seems to be a sense of respect for the law still remaining and genuine concern amongst the general population when something awful happens
housing costs have escalated here and when added to high interest rates you are more likely to get like for like (although different if that makes any sense )
your wages will be less, your cost of living will be about the same
youth culture still seems much more respectful - courteous youth out to have good clean fun
you'll pay for all things health - but the experience we have had so far is a much better service as far as GP provision / minor emergency services.
we came cos we wanted a better place to bring our kids up and so far we haven't found a reason to think that's not gonna happen
Good luck with your decision making
Vicki
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Old Jan 23rd 2006, 6:15 am
  #36  
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Default Re: Why we won't be emigrating to New Zealand

Originally Posted by Albion
Been living in NZ for a few yrs now and just wanted to make sure you knew that lots of these problems exist here as well. It is certainly not the paradise it is made out to be! Yes - landscape is beautiful but still lots of social probs here too....

Yes houses are cheaper here but wages are considerably lower too for equivalent jobs. Some things are cheaper, others are not. For example, books are astronical, as are shoes and some clothing items.

Roads - the death rate on the roads here is far worse than in the UK - i am a transport planner so know about these things (lucky me!!)....

The roads are terrible in some places and road signing is pretty absymal.

Public transport is horrendous here even in Auckland. The buses are infrequent and don't go where you want to go. In addition, the trains are hopeless!!!

Having said all that I like it here and I think its important that the main reason you are moving is for a change. And as long as you don't regard NZ (or Oz) as Utopia and countries with different pluses and minuses then you will be in a far better position....
Another really excellent post. As was Joshlin's.
 
Old Jan 23rd 2006, 8:10 am
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Default Re: Why we won't be emigrating to New Zealand

Originally Posted by martinw01908
Yes, excellent post. That was a good account of your fact finding trip. I was thinking of Aus but the high temperatures and mozzies have made me re-think maybe NZ? After reading your report I am not so sure I would be going for the right reasons. At least you are sure thats its not for you so it wasn't a waste of time? What are you going to do now? Stay in the UK or find another place abroad that you CAN settle in?

My reasons for wanting to leave the UK are:

1. High and rising crime - too lenient jail sentences in UK. Criminals with more rights than the victims
2. Desire to buy a bigger house for far less money than in UK
3. Hopefully maintain similar wages but with lower costs. of living
4. Yob culture/binge drinking in UK
5. Loss of UK identity to Europe and their interference in our affairs
6. Tony Blair, Prescott and their cronies.
7. Just a change of living and somewhere to start afresh
8. Don't think the UK is a place I would want to raise children due everything else mentioned here and the state of bullying, out of control ASBO children who plague UK schools
9. Badly maintained UK roads full of potholes and too many cars on the roads for them to cope.
10. The war on motorists:High car taxation, rip off petrol, congestion charges, speed bumps, speed cameras
11. Poor state of public transport thats way overpriced, no wonder people don't use it.
12. Not enough police on the beat. (Too busy catching motorists probably).
13. Poor NHS service, high waiting times and we are forced to pay for it regardless if if you use it. (A lot of the time you will die waiting for treatment. I would rather opt out of paying NHS contributions and go private, but you can't.)
14. UK overcrowding and asylum seekers who contribute nothing to the UK or its economy because they don't speak english or intend to get a job, just leech.
15. Out of control numbers of 'traveller' families in caravans who park in school playing fields etc and police are powerless to move them on
16. UK overpriced property, though thats good for me if selling up to move abroad.
17. Political correctness and the 'human rights' brigade.

If I think of any more I'll add to this list. Perhaps I ought to start a new thread about this!?

I know some of these things you will get in other countries too but I am looking for a place to move to with as little of these annoyances as possible.
whinging pom or what
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Old Jan 23rd 2006, 11:54 am
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Default Re: Why we won't be emigrating to New Zealand

Originally Posted by kevinlimey
whinging pom or what
martinw01908 Please let me know if you move to NZ and where you intend on going as you sound like just the type of whining tory boy ill be happy to leave behind.
Thanks.
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Old Jan 23rd 2006, 10:34 pm
  #39  
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Default Re: Why we won't be emigrating to New Zealand

Chapter Three

Hi All,

Thanks for all the nice comments etc about the posts and for the great replies from the likes of Albion and Joshlin.

Some good questions from Loxley -
what did you expect of your visit to N Z. and what did you base your expectations on?
I would say that when we began to think about the emigration process the answer would have been what any number of people would say - a better work/life balance, more space, more house for our money near the beach, a better life for the children when they grow up, world peace etc. I can empathise with the sentiment of martinw01908's post even if I don't agree with a lot of the reasoning (lay off the Daily Mail ). I think that we had become more realistic about what we could expect by the time we booked the tickets (having read all about the house prices, tin roofs, lack of GCH, interest rates, home sickness, etc.) and while we did continue to entertain the tourist board image of NZ that most people in the UK have in their minds - we also looked into working conditions, salaries and house prices etc.. In the end we had to come and see it for ourselves and make up our own minds.

New Zealand is a beautiful country, you can own a house on the beach if you want to (although I'm still looking for the 3-bed bungalow on 50 acres for £100k... ) and the laid back approach to life of the NZers is great. On an aside: can anybody define 'lifestyle' for me - when I spoke to both NZers and expats the stock answer I got whenever I mentioned emigrating or asked anything was 'yeah, its the lifestyle...' but nobody ever expanded on this, it was just left hanging in the air like I was supposed to know what it meant, which I didn't. Sorry, digressing - NZ has as much as the UK to offer, more depending on what you are looking for. I think our reasons for not emigrating say more about us as a family than it does about the UK or NZ. We have discovered that we are established where we are and that its how we live and not where we live that needs addressing and I think that that is probably the crux of the matter for a lot of people. That, and the fact that I must get a gas barbie…

There are a number of misconceptions about NZ in the UK and vice versa – that NZ is a chocolate box pretty country, where every house has ten acres of pasture and a strip of private beach front… and that it rains constantly in the UK and that there are illegal, binge-drinking asylum seekers on every street corner waiting to relieve you of your hard-earned cash… neither of them are (strictly) true.

Life's too short - I'm off to the Prancing Pony

Last edited by shortfatbloke; Jan 23rd 2006 at 10:39 pm.
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Old Jan 23rd 2006, 11:43 pm
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Default Re: Why we won't be emigrating to New Zealand

On an aside: can anybody define 'lifestyle' for me - [/QUOTE]

I don't think there is a general definition of 'lifestyle'.

When we first emigrated and I was desperately seeking, at least reasonably paid, employment the term 'lifestyle' was constantly being thrown my way.

'You can't expect Auckland wages when you've made a lifestyle choice to live in the Bay of Plenty' was the most common response to my 'Oliver' impression asking for more. Like you I asked for a definition and nobody could give one.

Five years on I have come to believe that a 'lifestyle' is a state of mind. Are you happy with your lot? If so the 'lifestyle' is good, if not then maybe change is needed.

One final observation - Kiwi's, in general, seem to think that you can only have a 'lifestyle' in New Zealand. I beg to differ - whilst I am happy with my lot and believe I have a good 'lifestyle' I could have equally achieved it by moving to Dartmoor, the West Coast of Scotland or even staying where I was in West Berkshire.

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Old Jan 23rd 2006, 11:51 pm
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Default Re: Why we won't be emigrating to New Zealand

Originally Posted by brandn
martinw01908 Please let me know if you move to NZ and where you intend on going as you sound like just the type of whining tory boy ill be happy to leave behind.
Thanks.
So maybe I am a wingeing Pom. Better to winge and try leave to the crap behind than to stay and winge further.

Interesting that I list things that I think are wrong with Britain - so you assume I am a Tory voter. Please don't make assumptions about my political persuasion. I don't see what that has got to do with emmigating to NZ anyway. I want to get away from Tony Blair and co. because I don't like them and what they have done to the country. I don't like how things have got worse and I don't like the place that the UK has become. That was a list of the things that hack me off about the UK. I'm sure you have your reasons for going too. What are they?

And the loss of UK indentity in the UK means I have no identity to stay for. I would rather put down roots in the USA/NZ/AUS and follow their way of life and national pride than stay here watch the country in which I was born be run down and dictated to by people in Europe.

Last edited by martinw01908; Jan 23rd 2006 at 11:57 pm.
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Old Jan 23rd 2006, 11:58 pm
  #42  
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Default Re: Why we won't be emigrating to New Zealand

This thread has up to now been a nice grown up discussion. Lets not go down the 'name calling' road. We don't need to all agree, but should at least be able to get our points across with out comments like the ones below.
Originally Posted by kevinlimey
whinging pom or what
Originally Posted by brandn
martinw01908 Please let me know if you move to NZ and where you intend on going as you sound like just the type of whining tory boy ill be happy to leave behind.
Thanks.
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Old Jan 24th 2006, 1:06 am
  #43  
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Default Re: Why we won't be emigrating to New Zealand

Originally Posted by shortfatbloke
Chapter Three

Hi All,

Thanks for all the nice comments etc about the posts and for the great replies from the likes of Albion and Joshlin.

Some good questions from Loxley -
I would say that when we began to think about the emigration process the answer would have been what any number of people would say - a better work/life balance, more space, more house for our money near the beach, a better life for the children when they grow up, world peace etc. I can empathise with the sentiment of martinw01908's post even if I don't agree with a lot of the reasoning (lay off the Daily Mail ). I think that we had become more realistic about what we could expect by the time we booked the tickets (having read all about the house prices, tin roofs, lack of GCH, interest rates, home sickness, etc.) and while we did continue to entertain the tourist board image of NZ that most people in the UK have in their minds - we also looked into working conditions, salaries and house prices etc.. In the end we had to come and see it for ourselves and make up our own minds.

New Zealand is a beautiful country, you can own a house on the beach if you want to (although I'm still looking for the 3-bed bungalow on 50 acres for £100k... ) and the laid back approach to life of the NZers is great. On an aside: can anybody define 'lifestyle' for me - when I spoke to both NZers and expats the stock answer I got whenever I mentioned emigrating or asked anything was 'yeah, its the lifestyle...' but nobody ever expanded on this, it was just left hanging in the air like I was supposed to know what it meant, which I didn't. Sorry, digressing - NZ has as much as the UK to offer, more depending on what you are looking for. I think our reasons for not emigrating say more about us as a family than it does about the UK or NZ. We have discovered that we are established where we are and that its how we live and not where we live that needs addressing and I think that that is probably the crux of the matter for a lot of people. That, and the fact that I must get a gas barbie…

There are a number of misconceptions about NZ in the UK and vice versa – that NZ is a chocolate box pretty country, where every house has ten acres of pasture and a strip of private beach front… and that it rains constantly in the UK and that there are illegal, binge-drinking asylum seekers on every street corner waiting to relieve you of your hard-earned cash… neither of them are (strictly) true.

Life's too short - I'm off to the Prancing Pony
Another good post
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Old Jan 24th 2006, 1:12 am
  #44  
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Default Re: Why we won't be emigrating to New Zealand

Originally Posted by Herm
On an aside: can anybody define 'lifestyle' for me -
I don't think there is a general definition of 'lifestyle'.

When we first emigrated and I was desperately seeking, at least reasonably paid, employment the term 'lifestyle' was constantly being thrown my way.

'You can't expect Auckland wages when you've made a lifestyle choice to live in the Bay of Plenty' was the most common response to my 'Oliver' impression asking for more. Like you I asked for a definition and nobody could give one.

Five years on I have come to believe that a 'lifestyle' is a state of mind. Are you happy with your lot? If so the 'lifestyle' is good, if not then maybe change is needed.

One final observation - Kiwi's, in general, seem to think that you can only have a 'lifestyle' in New Zealand. I beg to differ - whilst I am happy with my lot and believe I have a good 'lifestyle' I could have equally achieved it by moving to Dartmoor, the West Coast of Scotland or even staying where I was in West Berkshire.

[/QUOTE]

Good post Herm and one I agree with! You are absolutely right, I think, in saying that lifestyle is a state of mind. We are in the "absolutely brilliantly happy with our lot" category.

We also made a choice not to live in Auckland because we wanted to be away from city living. It is, however, not entirely correct to say you cant have Auckland wages when you live elsewhere ( Ok they wont BE Auckland wages! If you see what I mean) We earn as much as we would if we lived in Auckland - it can, and often does come down to what you actually do for a living. We are financially better off here than we were in the Uk. Now I'm aware we may be in the minority in this - but it does happen.

Before we moved over to NZ we did in fact look, in great depth, at living on one of the west coast of Scotland islands to achieve this 'lifestyle'. For us, it wasn't possible to do it there. We were completely priced out of the market, dare I say it, by people buying up holiday homes and only living in them for say 2 weeks in a year - but I digress..... we could not have had the life there that we have here ( and coming from a Scot, believe me that is dificult for me to say!)
You could, of course, argue that by coming to NZ and buying a property we are guilty of pushing up prices, and that's true, but at least we live here all the time and contribute to the local commmunity.

We have been here for four just over 4 months now and we love it. This is perhaps one of the best and most exciting things I have ever done in my life. It was very stressful going through the process to get here, but we always said it was an adventure, and it has definitely turned out to be a great one
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Old Jan 24th 2006, 1:16 am
  #45  
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Default Re: Why we won't be emigrating to New Zealand

You sound very, very content Pixi-dust I'm really happy for you , bit jealous too mind
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