The Weezer

[QUOTE=Apple12;4508213] I don't know for sure, since it's not explicitely stated, but I don't think these
numbers reflect people with temporary visas. I am on a work visa here
in NZ, and I don't know if I would qualify as a "migrant" according
to the OECD's criteria.

Very good question, and I believe hard to answer accurately without doing
some very serious research. Before I met my current NZ mate, I became very close friends with a NZer I met in Nairobi. We have been friends for over ten years now. He will probably never come back to live here, not because he does not think NZ is a great place, it is afterall his country of birth, but because the work he does cannot be done in NZ. He visits every few years to see his family. The nature of his work, as a professor, means he will not retire early, and he is used to a globetrotting life, and meeting people who are tops in their field of study, just as he is. It would be hard to have this in NZ.

Apple12

That's alright, he probably wouldn't be able to do the same job in Patagonia either
It is all swings and roundabouts, and usually where we live is a compromise in some way or other, most people aren't lucky enough to find Utopia But what I currently have in my life is pretty damn good.

Apple12

I wonder too, if the reason why the emigration rate is so low in the US is because it tends to be harder for US citizens to get visas for the rest of the world, ie Commonwealth countries have Working Holiday Visas etc. Do you think that is fair coming from the US yourself? I think it is because many countries have reciprocal agreements, and the US tends to not let many people in, and those it does have a very large number of hoops to get green cards, which means that the reverse becomes true too.
Also too the US is a very large and diverse country, you can move around the US and see new stuff for quite some time, so maybe less need to choose another country. And I don't like to mention the proportion of US citizens with passports, the hearsay is that the rate is very low... perhaps meaning that americans as a whole don't feel the need to visit other countries.
Aussies also have access to the Commonwealth visas, but have a larger country to move around in with a few large cities that are very different. People in the UK, of course, have access to the entire EU, and I am not sure if these figures are included?

The Weezer

I actually had no trouble at all getting a visa to work in NZ, as
a person with a college degree and years of steady employment in the US.
I don't think the very low numbers of Americans that live in NZ is because
of difficulty getting in.
From my perspective, and the attitudes of my friends, family, coworkers, etc.,
it is the extreme minority who ever even consider life elsewhere. And usually
if they do, it is to have an adventure. That's why I'm constantly surprised to hear the British say how dissatisified with their lives where they are (at least not to actually live elsewhere seriously!). It is an attitude I am not used to hearing people voice, in my experience, among American citizens and residents.

Many Americans are immigrants like me. We know a good thing when we see it. Since so many Americans are immigrants, they all have passports and travel (I know there are alot of illegals, too!!!) Also, since Americans tend to be wealthier, per capita than lots of people, they have the funds to travel a great deal, as I have had the fortune to do. Caribbean cruises are de rigeur among newlyweds. Mexico and central America are hugely popular destinations, as is Canada. Cheap flights are frequently available to European cities. I urge you to look to see how cheap and easy it is for an American to travel. Study abroad is *extremely* popular with college students. I myself did two tours of duty, one studying Renaissance art in Urbino, Italy, and another doing archaeological fieldwork in remote northern Kenya. In fact, I used to get annoyed when I travelled by how ubiquitous my fellow Americans were! I travelled to get a sense of what the world was like apart from them! Doing a cheap backpacking tour of Europe after graduation is common among college kids. My hometown in the Ecuadorian Andes is positively filthy with Americans these days, because of the famous railway journey that passes through. I know because most of my family still lives there.

I will say this, because I have discussed it among my friends, we are perpetually surprised at what the outside world thinks of us, and what we perceive our reality to be (not political!!!). National Geographic is published in the US, by the way, and we have a long standing and very popular National Geographic Bee, sponsored by National Geographic, and on the par with the National Spelling Bee in difficulty, which encourages children to learn about human and political geography in depth. I think you can stream the broadcast when it's on. Watch it, and see what some 10 year old Americans know. It must, in some way, encourage many other children to learn more about their world. Don't always believe what the statistics say. As we know, we must critically evaluate such things.

Because Americans, like Europeans, partake in the greater cultural and intellectual trends in the Western world, I assure you that it is easy to gain a healthy curiosity for the world if you are at all inclined to do so. It is natural to be aware of other places when, like me, you work with people from all over the place. You always end up talking about their country and leaning about it from them.

This is not true for all Americans, of course, just as this would not be true for all people in other places. But there are a heck of a lot of us for whom this is true.

The Weezer

By the way, not that it has come up very often at all here among the Kiwi
I have met, who display very little curiosity about American me - I have not yet met a NZer in NZ who knew that Spanish was the principal language of Ecuador. They inevitably ask what my language is. And I work among teachers!!! I can assure you, that I probably speak Spanish at home is automatically assumed among the the non-immigrant Americans in my neck of the woods.

I'm not stating that I think that this is true for most NZers, because I have no idea if this is true or not.

Beachcombers

I am surprised that you and your friends do not hang your head in shame. Look what America has done to the world, how many people die in the name of "freedom" every day? Torture, secret prisons, trampling of human rights.

You love to hark on about the destruction of the environment in NZ, look what has happened in America for goodness sake! Where it is considered "unpatriotic" to believe the climate is somehow influenced human factors.

All you seem to do is bang on about how crap NZ is compared to New Jersey! Well if you need a hand carrying your bags to the airport, I would be very happy to oblige.

Apple12

That's ok, there are probably plenty of people in Ecuador that don't know the principal language of New Zealand, or even where it is perhaps, but I don't hold it against them

pixi-dust

and on that note, when my parents were in a large well known bank in Texas my dad was asked of he was Polish. He explained he was from Aberdeen and that was in Scotland. The teller replied - gawd your english is so good.

So there you go - an American who had no idea what Scotland even was! it works both ways, and always will

The Weezer

I do think that's a cheap shot at a country where there are people in poverty, and are more concerned about giving their babies clean food than worrying whether they have a TV or Atlas.

Sorry to get off topic; I knew the claws would come out if you mention
America too much in Kiwiland, but I WAS answering a question posed to me.
I think people would probably prefer to hear gentle satire and honest
personal experiences about the principal topics of this forum than downright nastiness and personal attacks.

Apple12

Hey calm down, don't you see the winky face?

And given how much you go on about the poverty and dreadful underbelly of South Auckland, don't you see a subtle irony in your posts?

The Weezer

[QUOTE=Beachcombers;4508539]I am surprised that you and your friends do not hang your head in shame. Look what America has done to the world, how many people die in the name of "freedom" every day? Torture, secret prisons, trampling of human rights.QUOTE]

You're right, I'M entirely responsible for all these things, and since I
can yield so much power...!!!

The Weezer

[QUOTE=Apple12;4508601] Ok. I understand. I'm actually not too used to the faces, and don't evaluate them too much!


I thought it could it could bring a fresh, and not often heard perspective.

My family in Ecuador still live there because nearly all of them are
educated professionals and none live in poverty. As our New Zealand friends can tell you, and from what you hear from me, just about everyone would live in their own country if they could. I should not be attacked just because I happen to like living in the US. And this forum is about discussing NZ, good, bad and neutral. Not a single post on NZ ever reaches the nastiness and
unpleasentness that occurs if the US is mentioned in a positive light.

My parents did not immigrate to the United States to escape their endless struggles at home. They went to live there because of opportunities it offers, including the non-marterial ones. As is so often pointed out, people leave places for all sorts of reasons.

Apple12

So not true, you just haven't hung around this forum enough. Justa bout anyone with any point of view can get a hard time, you don't need to get a complex that it is just you, or just the US...

pixi-dust

That doesnt excuse the conversation my father had in the bank!! This was an educated person who worked there!
Come on - you can't have it all your own way!

Beachcombers

[QUOTE=The Weezer;4508606] No, you just like throwing stones in a glass house...................

You like the US, you dislike NZ, you are originally from Ecuador, yet in another post you say you are a Native American WTF?

Reading your previous posts, there is very little good you have to say about New Zealand, in a very unpleasantly smug way. Like we are all stupid for choosing to want to live here!