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Who believes in God?

Who believes in God?

Old Sep 12th 2010, 6:13 am
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Default Who believes in God?

There is soooooo much shit happening the world these days is hard to believe there is a 'great one' upstairs looking after us? What do you reckon? I see religion as a bunch of power mad blokes who want to have control over the masses. Pardon the pun.
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Old Sep 12th 2010, 7:17 am
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Default Re: Who believes in God?

I am R.C. and I believe in God...... but also think Evolution is more likely the best explanation as to where we come from. But then what about ghosts.... Charles Darwin has said "when your dead your dead" but ghosts do exist, so to aliens, so who made the aliens? Religion, for me, was brought into the world to try to create civilisation. The world wars, are they about religion or land? And if there is no God what are we all doing here, whats life all about. So its a yes and no from me Bloody interesting thread Genesis, sue
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Old Sep 12th 2010, 7:34 am
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Default Re: Who believes in God?

Originally Posted by sue1234 View Post
I am R.C. and I believe in God...... but also think Evolution is more likely the best explanation as to where we come from. But then what about ghosts.... Charles Darwin has said "when your dead your dead" but ghosts do exist, so to aliens, so who made the aliens? Religion, for me, was brought into the world to try to create civilisation. The world wars, are they about religion or land? And if there is no God what are we all doing here, whats life all about. So its a yes and no from me Bloody interesting thread Genesis, sue
Hi Sue, I am a lapsed Catholic for many a reason. Why is the RC church the richest body on earth? Why not give it all away? Pakistan needs some dosh..I have sent my donation. Look at Bhudism, look at Sister M T. Were/are they steeped in wealth? I think not. Then there is the issue of homosexuality and no female priests. Both the latter are at odds with the RC faith. Why oh why? As for religion to create civilisation I beg to differ? Is religion not all about fear and control?
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Old Sep 12th 2010, 7:34 am
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Smile Re: Who believes in God?

Well since you asked:

I did when I was younger and the big questions have always been important to me. Where did we come from? Are we here for a reason? My faith became undermined by my research and reading into these issues over time. I found the suggestions of scientific method to be much more convincing than the dogma contained within religious texts. It appears clear now that evolution is the origin of species and abiogenesis probably occurred spontaneously, people who doubt the former look as ridiculous as people who believe the earth is flat in the modern age.

Aside from not answering the big questions well I came to realise how deeply flawed and unsavoury the morality of most religious texts. This is what convinced me that taking an anti-theist stance was the only moral approach really.

I am left to conclude that if there is a god or gods he/she/it/they are not one(s) of conventional religion, almost certainly extremely cruel and not a theist one (See: Laws of Thermodynamics).

So appears highly unlikely to me that there is a god and that I’m very happy about. I’ve always believed in the intrinsic morality and goodness inherent in most human beings. We don’t need books to aid us in moral or ethical judgements or be enshrined in law, we don’t need religious dogma to explain life or create reasons for it and we don’t need a deity to look to when times are tough (when we should be looking to each other most of all ). We have discovered we are free for better or worse, life only has meaning if we give it meaning, we may content ourselves foremost with our actions and there is no judgement at the end so make sure to enjoy the ride .
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Old Sep 12th 2010, 7:50 am
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Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
Hi Sue, I am a lapsed Catholic for many a reason. Why is the RC church the richest body on earth? Why not give it all away? Pakistan needs some dosh..I have sent my donation. Look at Bhudism, look at Sister M T. Were/are they steeped in wealth? I think not. Then there is the issue of homosexuality and no female priests. Both the latter are at odds with the RC faith. Why oh why? As for religion to create civilisation I beg to differ? Is religion not all about fear and control?
Being religious does not mean you support the actions of the church as a whole though genesis. Indeed it is my understanding many catholics are privately (after all these things are not often discussed in public forum) disgusted by the Vatican’s wealth, ethical stance on popular issues (abortion, contraception etc.) and their actions in protecting their own in child abuse cases recently. They have chosen to save their own over representing and working for the best interests of their parishioners at almost every step.

The famous biologist and prominent anti-theist Richard Dawkins was once asked if he was happy with the actions of the pope or if he should be replaced. He suggested he was delighted with the pope to date because he had done far more damage to the catholic church and its reputation than any antitheist could ever hope to do.
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Old Sep 12th 2010, 9:56 am
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Default Re: Who believes in God?

So interesting I too agree that religion is the biggest money making scam to date. I too dislike how the church discriminates homosexuals, if there is a god, wernt we taught to be loving and forgiving? its just a load of rules made up to suit others. And yes religion is about fear and control. Charismatic,"life only has meaning if we give it meaning, we may content ourselves foremost with our actions and there is no judgement at the end so make sure to enjoy the ride . love it. sue
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Old Sep 12th 2010, 11:04 pm
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Default Re: Who believes in God?

Originally Posted by sue1234 View Post
So interesting I too agree that religion is the biggest money making scam to date. I too dislike how the church discriminates homosexuals, if there is a god, wernt we taught to be loving and forgiving? its just a load of rules made up to suit others. And yes religion is about fear and control. Charismatic,"life only has meaning if we give it meaning, we may content ourselves foremost with our actions and there is no judgement at the end so make sure to enjoy the ride . love it. sue
Had a jolly good chat about this with a chum outside the shpos today..fascinating subject eh? I saw a prog recently on DVD called 'Earth' and it is very true that life does appear to have just happened. I realise all the ingredients for life on earth are amazing (and some will suggest there MUST be celestial intervention as evolution could never be so 'clever'. My kids go to an RC school because it is very good and I am more than happy to pull out my HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE hypocrite card and send to the school that serves them best. RI is not shoved down their throats AND more importantly the moral values (ie genuine good chritianity) focuses very highly. Anyway I am very proud of my 9 yr old boy who is very clever and decided 2 yrs ago he could have no truck with the notion of a 'higher being'. He is thus allowed to skip prayers et al. I am so impressed that he made a free choice (being of a strong scientific bent) that darwinism/evolution are the reasons we are here.
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Old Sep 13th 2010, 3:49 am
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Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
I saw a prog recently on DVD called 'Earth' and it is very true that life does appear to have just happened. I realise all the ingredients for life on earth are amazing (and some will suggest there MUST be celestial intervention as evolution could never be so 'clever').
Yes and this is very interesting point that has only really been worked on for about 40 years now. People started looking at possible ways that life could have spontaneously appeared and started experimenting with conditions that could have been found on early earth, experiments met with some success on that we found nucleic acids that could self assemble but the experiment was far from convincing. Just because you can make bricks does not mean you can build a house.

However at the same time other folks in coats started looking closely at the molecular structure responsible for replicating strands of nucleotides (ribosomes for those of you playing at home). They began to notice something quite peculiar and interesting, these molecules are not only shared between all animals but they appear to be almost exactly the same (at least unusually similar) between species as distant as humans and bacteria. It seems possible that RNA ribozymes could be a key to early life as they contain two essential properties:
1. They can carry genetic information as they are composed of nucleic acids.
2. Can self replicate with help from an energy source (usually a surface submersed in a liquid carrying nucleotides, kept at a warm temperature and given an energy source like sunlight).
Now this is great in theory but there are other possible methods biogenesis and but I’d totally agree if you wanted more evidence. Then in 2002 a chap from UCLA realised he had stumbled across unusual rock formations that further testing reveals to be the earliest life on earth (difficult to date exactly). The real kicker is that it was found on rocks that appear to have been located in hot pools that would probably have had a varying depth and appears to be layered as one might expect of cells growing on rocks and if you look at condition 2 above you’ll notice the conditions would appear to be near ideal in a way.

Research continues but it would appear the argument now carries some weight amongst those involved in research in the area.
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Old Sep 13th 2010, 7:08 am
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Default Re: Who believes in God?

Clearly too controversial for most to want to comment...religion, politics...what next lol? I watch with interest
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Old Sep 13th 2010, 2:44 pm
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Default Re: Who believes in God?

Well, Genesis, Charismatic and I all agree with the evolution theory, but do either of you two know where ghosts fit in? Aliens, I have a great theory about them, who's to say, that they, one day were humans living on earth ok, I'll keep my far fetched theories to myself....I am glad that we have had no arguments with the OP, or am I
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Old Sep 14th 2010, 12:12 pm
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Default Re: Who believes in God?

the longer that I live with my atheist husband the more I think that he has a point.
I've reached the point where I believe in God but not religion.
However I was thinking yesterday that we'd be just as effed without religion. Some people give in to their base desires of domination and villification (I think this is the word I want - it's late) under the guise of a religious mandate but would do it all the same

What bugs me is that religions seem to hold the high ground on values.
When in fact society up holds moral values generally across all denominations and borders.
Most of us don't need God to tell us it's wrong to hurt someone else intentionally, or to take from them. But often I hear that these are [insert religion here] values when in fact they are human values
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Old Sep 14th 2010, 1:46 pm
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Originally Posted by pricklykina View Post
I've reached the point where I believe in God but not religion.
Yes this is an important but subtle distinction in that when Einstein talked about a god he was talking about quite a different thing to your local church.

If your definition of a god is amorphous enough it can slip through almost any net of logic or reason that more traditional views of god get entangled in .
Originally Posted by pricklykina View Post
However I was thinking yesterday that we'd be just as effed without religion. Some people give in to their base desires of domination and villification (I think this is the word I want - it's late) under the guise of a religious mandate but would do it all the same...
There is a Nobel prize winning physicist called Steven Weinberg who sums this up far more elegantly than I could possibly hope to “Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
Originally Posted by pricklykina View Post
What bugs me is that religions seem to hold the high ground on values. When in fact society up holds moral values generally across all denominations and borders. Most of us don't need God to tell us it's wrong to hurt someone else intentionally, or to take from them. But often I hear that these are [insert religion here] values when in fact they are human values
Agreed on this .
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Old Sep 14th 2010, 3:32 pm
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Default Re: Who believes in God?

If like me you can believe in infinity then there is no start and no end and certainly no need for religion other than keeping down overcrowding by causing disputes. If there is always something beyond the beyond and always was then we never began.
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Old Sep 19th 2010, 4:42 am
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Default Re: Who believes in God?

Originally Posted by Charismatic View Post
Well since you asked:

I did when I was younger and the big questions have always been important to me. Where did we come from? Are we here for a reason? My faith became undermined by my research and reading into these issues over time. I found the suggestions of scientific method to be much more convincing than the dogma contained within religious texts. It appears clear now that evolution is the origin of species and abiogenesis probably occurred spontaneously, people who doubt the former look as ridiculous as people who believe the earth is flat in the modern age.

Aside from not answering the big questions well I came to realise how deeply flawed and unsavoury the morality of most religious texts. This is what convinced me that taking an anti-theist stance was the only moral approach really.

I am left to conclude that if there is a god or gods he/she/it/they are not one(s) of conventional religion, almost certainly extremely cruel and not a theist one (See: Laws of Thermodynamics).

So appears highly unlikely to me that there is a god and that I’m very happy about. I’ve always believed in the intrinsic morality and goodness inherent in most human beings. We don’t need books to aid us in moral or ethical judgements or be enshrined in law, we don’t need religious dogma to explain life or create reasons for it and we don’t need a deity to look to when times are tough (when we should be looking to each other most of all ). We have discovered we are free for better or worse, life only has meaning if we give it meaning, we may content ourselves foremost with our actions and there is no judgement at the end so make sure to enjoy the ride .
Good post! Pretty much how I feel about it.
Was never convinced about the existence of God when I first started school and suddenly heard about religion. My parents never mentioned or made reference to God or religion so it all seemed very peculiar. Especially when I was told that the 'fairy stories' I was being told were in fact true I had Noah's ark and Jonah and the Whale in the same category as Sleeping Beauty prior to that. The whole concept of heaven and hell threw up way too many questions as to our physical presence there and its own existence which no one seemed able to answer as well- I must have been an annoying child Can remember the teacher telling me that she didn't know the answers in the end...Did more reading and came across the word agnostic when I reached secondary school and decided I was one until I learnt the word atheist
It is interesting to speculate whether I would have come to the same lack of belief had I been brought up in a religious household? I suspect I would given that I rarely take anything at face value and usually will research or need proof before I can believe in something that I think sounds unbelievable.

Anyway live and let live, it is a personal choice as to whether we believe or not and that should be respected as long as that belief isn't used to harm, insult or demean others in any way
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Old Sep 19th 2010, 7:24 am
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Default Re: Who believes in God?

Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
There is soooooo much shit happening the world these days is hard to believe there is a 'great one' upstairs looking after us? What do you reckon? I see religion as a bunch of power mad blokes who want to have control over the masses. Pardon the pun.
God does'nt exist the big bang created the universe. Enjoy this life because theres no life after death. Being dead is exactly like it was before you were concieved you just don't exist.

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