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What's the blooming point?

What's the blooming point?

Old Mar 10th 2013, 3:38 pm
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Unhappy What's the blooming point?

I need your advice guys.

I have been as honest with my parents as I can from the outset but Here's how my story has evolved:

Nov2012: half assed set of job applications as a result of a fleeting comment while on holiday in NZ in October, which led me to discover my job is on the skills shortage list.
2 weeks later, job offer, starts Jan. Manage to agree a deferral
Late Nov: start the visa / EoI process and paperwork collection
Jan: house goes up for sale
Feb: employer contacts me to say they cannot wait the 6 months I need to get the full visa proccessed. I start Temp visa application
1Mar: Temp visa granted.

House is still for sale, not sold yet. Hubby is 48 and works in a food manufacturers in the UK. The visa will be applied for under my skilled employment.

My main problem is the parents. Well, one of them. My mother has said some of the following things
  • It will break our marriage if I leave him here
  • It is the worst decision i have ever had
  • i am to blame for splitting up the family
  • she will die without ever seeing me again
  • I will be broke, will use up all my equity to make it happen and will not be able to buy another house again over there
  • how do i know the place I am going to isnt a dump?
  • the employers have lied to me forcing me to go too fast
  • I should have turned down the job and taken one with a better time frame for departure
  • I leave her no option to organise a proper leaving party for all the family who live in UK, Ireland and elsewhere
  • We will never manage it, with a house in the uk still to sell and pay bills etc, as well as one in NZ
  • My husband will be too old to ever get a job in New Zealand as any type of labourer / food manufacturer or whatever
  • She refuses to learn how to use a computer so will never talk to me again
  • she is far too old to be considering a trip to visit me, like, EVER

I am sure you get the gist, I can think of a whole ton more.

She is seriously making me feel like this may well be the worst decision I ever made, and I was so certain this is what we wanted.

I hate her for the emotional blackmail, all the unkind unspeakable things she has said, only some of which are listed above, I expect better from someone who is meant to be my MOTHER.

Why can't she just say, 'I dont want you to go, but good luck, i will miss you'

IS it the worst decision ever? I am heartbroken at the moment.
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Old Mar 10th 2013, 4:38 pm
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Default Re: What's the blooming point?

Originally Posted by M_and_M View Post
I need your advice guys.

I have been as honest with my parents as I can from the outset but Here's how my story has evolved:

Nov2012: half assed set of job applications as a result of a fleeting comment while on holiday in NZ in October, which led me to discover my job is on the skills shortage list.
2 weeks later, job offer, starts Jan. Manage to agree a deferral
Late Nov: start the visa / EoI process and paperwork collection
Jan: house goes up for sale
Feb: employer contacts me to say they cannot wait the 6 months I need to get the full visa proccessed. I start Temp visa application
1Mar: Temp visa granted.

House is still for sale, not sold yet. Hubby is 48 and works in a food manufacturers in the UK. The visa will be applied for under my skilled employment.

My main problem is the parents. Well, one of them. My mother has said some of the following things
  • It will break our marriage if I leave him here
  • It is the worst decision i have ever had
  • i am to blame for splitting up the family
  • she will die without ever seeing me again
  • I will be broke, will use up all my equity to make it happen and will not be able to buy another house again over there
  • how do i know the place I am going to isnt a dump?
  • the employers have lied to me forcing me to go too fast
  • I should have turned down the job and taken one with a better time frame for departure
  • I leave her no option to organise a proper leaving party for all the family who live in UK, Ireland and elsewhere
  • We will never manage it, with a house in the uk still to sell and pay bills etc, as well as one in NZ
  • My husband will be too old to ever get a job in New Zealand as any type of labourer / food manufacturer or whatever
  • She refuses to learn how to use a computer so will never talk to me again
  • she is far too old to be considering a trip to visit me, like, EVER

I am sure you get the gist, I can think of a whole ton more.

She is seriously making me feel like this may well be the worst decision I ever made, and I was so certain this is what we wanted.

I hate her for the emotional blackmail, all the unkind unspeakable things she has said, only some of which are listed above, I expect better from someone who is meant to be my MOTHER.

Why can't she just say, 'I dont want you to go, but good luck, i will miss you'

IS it the worst decision ever? I am heartbroken at the moment.
when we first, when to nz back in 1990, spoke to my mother, for about half an hour, when we got back from a six week holiday, me my wife and three young kids ,
my farther said your mum said you you would move and live in nz , she was right we did move in 07, came back and are looking to move again,
unfortunately, my mother died in 1990 when we were in nz,
people change as time go,s on including family, we dont get on with my brothers and sister, but did when we were younger, my chrildren are okay if we go i think you should make up your own mind , you might not like it there and come back after a few months years, if you dont go you could be for ever thinging if only we had done that or this,
nz is a wonderful place to live, more so as you get older more slower pace of life, and you can allways rent untill you think your going to stay,

karma for you hope you work things out
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Old Mar 10th 2013, 6:47 pm
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Default Re: What's the blooming point?

Advice on here is pretty much always going to be do what you want to do, don't let anybody blackmail you in that way. And in many ways that is true, but it's a very simplified response that doesn't really consider both the huge step that you are taking or the complexities of human emotion.
I can't possibly justify anything your mother has said but at the same time I can empathise with her feelings of abandonment which I think is where this comes from.
Many of the people on this forum come here and never look back, many are only too happy to have left their relatives behind for all sorts of reasons. To a certain extent I feel that about my parents and sister. However, although they never said it, our move really hurt my wife's parents and 8 years down the line the importance of family has really impacted on us, especially with my father in law's recent death.
People will say why didn't we realise that then, we knew we were going to the other side of the world, we must be stupid! But emigration is by definition a very selfish act and at the time we were so wrapped up in the plan to 'give our kids a better life' that we never really stopped to think about some of the consequences.
As we sit here in rural New Zealand we know that we will push our kids to go out and explore the world. And we dread that, the thought of them going and leaving us behind, breaks my heart now, goodness knows what it will be like when it actually happens.
So, sorry I can't offer any advice beyond perhaps trying to understand why people react the way they do even if it is incredibly hurtful to you.
Someone is bound to come on now and tell me I'm talking cobblers!

Last edited by AndyEvs; Mar 10th 2013 at 6:47 pm. Reason: Spelling
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Old Mar 10th 2013, 7:08 pm
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Default Re: What's the blooming point?

Originally Posted by AndyEvs View Post
Advice on here is pretty much always going to be do what you want to do, don't let anybody blackmail you in that way. And in many ways that is true, but it's a very simplified response that doesn't really consider both the huge step that you are taking or the complexities of human emotion.
I can't possibly justify anything your mother has said but at the same time I can empathise with her feelings of abandonment which I think is where this comes from.
Many of the people on this forum come here and never look back, many are only too happy to have left their relatives behind for all sorts of reasons. To a certain extent I feel that about my parents and sister. However, although they never said it, our move really hurt my wife's parents and 8 years down the line the importance of family has really impacted on us, especially with my father in law's recent death.
People will say why didn't we realise that then, we knew we were going to the other side of the world, we must be stupid! But emigration is by definition a very selfish act and at the time we were so wrapped up in the plan to 'give our kids a better life' that we never really stopped to think about some of the consequences.
As we sit here in rural New Zealand we know that we will push our kids to go out and explore the world. And we dread that, the thought of them going and leaving us behind, breaks my heart now, goodness knows what it will be like when it actually happens.
So, sorry I can't offer any advice beyond perhaps trying to understand why people react the way they do even if it is incredibly hurtful to you.
Someone is bound to come on now and tell me I'm talking cobblers!
Well said, Andy, very well said.
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Old Mar 10th 2013, 7:55 pm
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Default Re: What's the blooming point?

Nope. Sorry. I don't do Politically Correct and I don't do sympathy, which I consider to be the most negative emotion in the world. (Sympathy is finding someone having a pity party and jumping in the hole with them. I prefer empathy - "I know how you feel. I felt the same way when I was in a similar situation. This is what I did to get out of that hole. You can do that, too."

If they take some advice on how to get out of their hole, then they're worth you spending your valuable time on them. If they prefer to sit in their hole and wallow in self-pity then move on. You can't help them, and life's too short.)

Your mother is being completely selfish, and is a 'guilt-thrower'. Don't you be a 'guilt-catcher'. It's manipulation by guilt, and I expect it's what she's used to control people around her, all her life.

If she wants to have anything to do with you and her grandkids once you have moved then she can get off her arse and learn how to use a computer. Or get on a plane and visit you. If she can't be bothered, then SHE doesn't think enough of YOU to be worth bothering about.

And I know that's 'black or white', and very harsh.

Sometimes you have to dig in your heels and say "Mum, if you love me, you'll back me. If you don't love me, then you won't." Then shut up let her respond. Then you will see where you and your family really stand in her estimation. (From what you said, I expect her to say "That's a horrible thing to say. You obviously don't love ME." or similar, and try to turn it back on you. Manipulative people do that, all the time - it's never THEIR fault, always someone else's.)

This might be painful, but it at least will be honest, which she's not being, right now, and you'll end up knowing where you stand.

It's NOT your fault that you have an opportunity to 'get on', and build a better life for yourself and your family. It IS her fault that she's trying to stop you for her own selfish reasons.
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Old Mar 10th 2013, 8:11 pm
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Default Re: What's the blooming point?

AndyEvs

Problem is that if we only did what our parents wanted then we'd live very restricted lives! I'd be married and living in the same town I was born with and would have had a huge number of children if my Mam had her way. Luckily my Dad is better at letting go!

It sounds like your mother is doing all she can to change your mind, she is trying to come up with reasons why it will never work out for you. It will be coming from a position of worry and love rather than a desire to upset you [assuming you have a good relationship normally]
It is likely to be the only way she has of getting you to stay, she has no control over your decision at all and probably feels like you are abandoning her.
All you can try and do is talk to her and reassure her as much as possible. Try and understand where she's coming from difficult as it is given what she's saying. Don't lose your temper or get upset, or at least try not to. It sounds like she is scared for you and your family as well as worried about not having you around. Give her time but be firm in that this is going ahead and that all she is doing is creating bad feeling between you. So sorry you're having to try and deal with this and I wish I could be of some help

I was lucky in that my Dad said 'go for it' and my Mam kept her doubts to herself. I knew they'd rather me not go but they accepted that I had to live my own life.

Practical things: my parents do not live together but both have landline phone plans that give them free calls to NZ so it does not cost an exorbitant amount, I call them and they phone back immediately.
Both can use a computer but have never bothered with Skype-my Mam who is less technically minded is able to surf the net and email without a problem, she learned when I left for NZ and is now on broadband, books tickets for Cliff concerts and even orders stuff online now Is there anyone there who can help her out once you leave, maybe go round with a computer and show her how it works. Keep it very simple and start with email and photos and she may surprise you [or not]

All the best and good luck
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Old Mar 10th 2013, 8:31 pm
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Default Re: What's the blooming point?

I always ask myself what my parents would have done in my position, stuck in a low paid job, surrounded by madness and destined to pay rent all my life.
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Old Mar 10th 2013, 8:35 pm
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Default Re: What's the blooming point?

Guys, your responses have been brilliant, thank you.

Thanks Downunderpom. I am a northerner, I respect the truth.

A personal worry is what mark mentions. I currently own a good house, decent size. We need to sell to find the move meaning all the equity will be used up and we will be starting over.

What is it like for house prices, and at 41 will I get a mortgage at all in NZ? (After I manage to save whatever they expect for a deposit!)
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Old Mar 10th 2013, 8:39 pm
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Default Re: What's the blooming point?

Karma to you Andy.

I had some friends who I have left behind in the UK, who could not understand why I wanted to leave. Absolutely could not get their heads around it. But frankly I didn't give a s%^t what they thought in the end.

As Andy said, its a selfish act emigrating. One that can empower you tremendously, with positive life changing outcomes.

The hardest is for those who you leave behind, those people who care about you, yet see this move as the end of the (their) world.

I would suggest you take your mum out for lunch or something, some neutral ground, where you really need to explain to her that your are going, you are going to miss her terribly, why YOU think this is a good idea and you really need to have her support.

Forget the SKYPE thing until after you have gone. There are cheap calling cards for calling the UK, it works out to something like $1/hr. SO keeping in touch is not a problem.

Your husband will be granted a "open" work permit, based upon you being the principle applicant. So he can go and work doing whatever he wants and for him, getting a job should be no problem.

Good luck and I hope she comes round.
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Old Mar 10th 2013, 8:48 pm
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Default Re: What's the blooming point?

Some great posts here. I can understand how she feels but at the same time it's not fair to make you feel so guilty,I guess everyone reacts differently. It's a hard one.

If she doesn't have a comp try set her up with one even if it's at a friend's/relatives. I think she would regret not using it at all. She'll just be shocked and upset and doing anything she can to stop you leaving. Hopefully she doesn't spend the last of your time in the UK being angry/upset

Emigrating is a selfish act but we can't live our life for our parents, all you can do is let her know no matter how much distance is between you it doesn't stop you loving her and try and get back for a visit as much as you can.

Best of luck x
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Old Mar 10th 2013, 9:07 pm
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Default Re: What's the blooming point?

We're going through the exact same process as well, although ours is because our decision of whether to stay or not is due soon. Our house is either going to be on the market at the end of the month, or is going to be used by us again.

But ours is the majority of one members family. We've had a lot of blackmail ever since the arrival of our son. None of them were as bas they are now when we first went out there and for the first year there. It's been ever since the arrival of the young one.

I'm being a bastard about it. It's our life! This is how you've got to look at it. It's your life! Would you regret this if you stayed at home???? You only live life once and at your age, this'll probably be the only opportunity you'd have for a life changing experience.

Another thing to look at is what have you got at home? Are you tied down to much? Have you got a lot of firiends? Apart from a house and both families in Walsall and Bournemouth, we had buga all to stay in Barking when we left. Plus numerous job redundancies as well for me.

As with someones parents for us, trying to put the guilt trip and blame game on you is selfish on their behalf. Of course it'll be natural that you'll miss each other but how do you know what's going to happen? Give it a few months after the move and your family may be delighted for you and enjoy where you are

End of the day, as our Graham often said in the early 90's - the decision is yours! If you want to move here, do it! Book yourself a flight, get things sorted and then come out

Is your husband supportive of the move?
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Old Mar 10th 2013, 9:08 pm
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Default Re: What's the blooming point?

Originally Posted by AndyEvs View Post
Advice on here is pretty much always going to be do what you want to do, don't let anybody blackmail you in that way. And in many ways that is true, but it's a very simplified response that doesn't really consider both the huge step that you are taking or the complexities of human emotion.
I can't possibly justify anything your mother has said but at the same time I can empathise with her feelings of abandonment which I think is where this comes from.
Many of the people on this forum come here and never look back, many are only too happy to have left their relatives behind for all sorts of reasons. To a certain extent I feel that about my parents and sister. However, although they never said it, our move really hurt my wife's parents and 8 years down the line the importance of family has really impacted on us, especially with my father in law's recent death.
People will say why didn't we realise that then, we knew we were going to the other side of the world, we must be stupid! But emigration is by definition a very selfish act and at the time we were so wrapped up in the plan to 'give our kids a better life' that we never really stopped to think about some of the consequences.
As we sit here in rural New Zealand we know that we will push our kids to go out and explore the world. And we dread that, the thought of them going and leaving us behind, breaks my heart now, goodness knows what it will be like when it actually happens.
So, sorry I can't offer any advice beyond perhaps trying to understand why people react the way they do even if it is incredibly hurtful to you.
Someone is bound to come on now and tell me I'm talking cobblers!
Great post in fact.

I agree. I realise it's puzzling and seems hurtful. Just try your best to understand her fear, worry and pain. After all, you are going to something new and exciting , whilst all she feels is loss. There is probably an element of shock in there as well.

If you want to come try NZ, then it's the right thing for you right now. You have the opportunity to try. Take that opportunity. All you can do is to continue to reassure your Mum of your reasons for this and that you love her always.

Why can't she just say, 'I dont want you to go, but good luck, i will miss you'
Too simple a phrase . Too much inner turmoil. Too much pain. It's all just coming out of the mouth as the tumble of conflicting thoughts mash around in her head.

FWIW . Yes. We had similar from Mr BEVS Mum, 75 back then. She also uttered the one that she would never see him, Mr BEVS, again .

My own Dad, 74 at the time, behaved in what I thought was a very odd way at the time, but looking back I can now see he was simply expressing grief , in the exact same way he did when my Mum died. I was so caught up - selfishly - with all our plans , that I just didn't see the totality of the pain.

You know, we ain't all hero's and heroines , bravely waving our hankies or looking perfectly calm in the face of pain and hardship. People faced with difficulties don't always act for the best of others.

I'd like to say she'll come round but she may not totally. She will get used to it though & learn to live with it.

Let her carry on having her wee rants if it gets it off her chest. You don't have to take it 'personally' or listen to it as a 'truth'. Neither you nor your Mum knows what the NZ adventure holds for you and your OH. Remember that.

Meanwhile invest in some earplugs and practice your best Mum hugs.
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Old Mar 10th 2013, 9:15 pm
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Default Re: What's the blooming point?

Originally Posted by Tom1983 View Post
Is your husband supportive of the move?
He sure is, 110%. He has picked up my pieces several times and put me back together. He's superb.

I actually have the temp visa, the job is lines up, ready to go, and flight provisionally booked.

You are right, all of you.

I guess I just hoped for something better from her. I would NEVER do what she is doing if I was in her shoes.
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Old Mar 10th 2013, 9:19 pm
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Default Re: What's the blooming point?

My MIL apparently bitched about us taking her grandchildren away. This said by the FIL. Turned out it was him that was the saddest but blamed on the MIL. I told her we were doing what we thought was best for our children and though obviously she would miss them surely she didn't want them missing out on the opportunity, blah blah blah, Turns out she had the opportunity of being a 10 pound pom to Australia in her younger days and has always regretted not trying it.
They do do Skype and to be honest once a week is to much so have cut it back a bit now. Seriously what can you say about going to work/school every week.
My mum on the other hand will not use a computer so the art of hand writing letters has resurfaced and it's lovely. I send her photo albums from vista print every couple of months to show her what we have been up to which she tells makes her very happy. I phoned her today being Mothers Day as a surprise which again she thought was great and told me she had received her flowers. We have skyped once over Christmas when my brother was around to help out and it was hilarious as poor thing really didn't understand that by her having the headphones on my brother couldn't hear us.

Things do look daunting now to everyone, parents bonds can be very tight at times but you have to do what is right for you and your children. She will come round, maybe after you have left but it something she will have to get used to.

As for leaving hubby in UK to sell the house, been there done that except it was me and the kids in the UK and others have done it also. It is a pain because of the time difference, just make sure you can sign the papers over electronically. I had to fax over the contract to my OH and he emailed back. I stopped paying the mortgage and told the mortgage company that my OH had left me, well he had, so I was having to put the house on the market, got the council rate down too.

We have made sure we have some money left in the UK to get flights back and everything else came across to enable us to buy a property. Husband had mortgage offer a month after he started work with the proviso that he could prove the UK monies when required. he was here in Sept 2011 and we joined in Jan 2012. House had fallen through on exchange date but we had to come because we had booked everything but that's another story. and it finally sold with us both being over here.

As for getting a job your husband will be fine, I got a temp job within 4 weeks of being here, through a friend, and now I'm full time and the boss to boot. That wouldn't of happened in the UK.

Your mum's sad, she's hitting out because she is sad. But at the end of the day if she had the opportunity when she was younger would she be like you and taken it or have regrets like MIL.
Think having a back up plan might ease her mind a little to maybe approach things that way and just tell her you love her but this is just to good an opportunity to pass up. We said we would stay for the 5yrs to get the kids their citizenship to open up more possibilities for their futures and then look at what we would do after that and I think that made sense to our parents.
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Old Mar 10th 2013, 9:20 pm
  #15  
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Default Re: What's the blooming point?

That's coz you are not her & all that has made her who she is from a babe 'til now. AND she & your Dad brung you up proper like.

What does your Dad say about all this.

I know you probably have but have you tried cutting through the diatribes by simply walking forward and giving her a soundless, firm hug.

I wonder if a mutual weep might do it. Break through her mind-set. It is a form of stuck groove you know. Being unable to see further than one's own nose.


You have a hug by way of some BE karma from me. You are both suffering and that's just not good for either of you.

.
ps - I stayed behind to do our house sale from hell whilst Mr BEVS left for his new NZ life. Took about 3 months from memory. Absence made the heart grow fonder. lol
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