What an embarrassment this man is....
 

Daily Telegraph:

"New Zealand needs migrant workers to make up for locals who are lazy or on drugs, prime minister says"


New Zealand needs migrant workers to make up for locals who are lazy or on drugs, prime minister says�

Re: What an embarrassment this man is....
 

But you always get told Kiwi's are known the world over to be hard workers, apparently employers in London fight over available Kiwi workers!!!!!

Another popular myth kept alive by the locals.

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I had a client who worked for one of the fruit picking companies as a manager. They ditched NZ workers in favour of the islanders because they are more obedient. Migrants are afraid they'll be kicked out so they do as they are told for little money. Often they are forced to live on site (for which they are charged rent) so of course they turn up. Once their position is more secure, e.g. residency, they move on and take the more attractive jobs in companies that pay a decent wage and treat their staff better.

You would think the leader of a country would be working on upskilling local people instead of throwing them on the scrap heap and bringing in labour from overseas - it's a sign of poor management at the top.

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Comments quoted out of context to create the story the author wanted

Personally, even if the comments were made in the context of the quote
I would praise a prime minister who can be so honest. Would you rather him lie
and claim that half the lazy arse dropkicks dont exist. Lets not confuse these tossers
with your ordinary decent hard working folk.

Re: What an embarrassment this man is....
 

Looks like there is more to it than some knee-jerk commentators acknowledge.

Leon Stallard - a grower:
"We have 10 weeks of harvest. It is difficult for New Zealanders to come from out of town, to find accommodation just for a period of 10 weeks - and then there's the issue of if they bring families, the issue of schooling and finding schooling for them for that time, and making sure they don't fall though the cracks ... Basically, adds pressure if you're running your own business to have to do all that pastoral care too, which comes with the territory and we understand that."

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Apparently the lazy NZ tossers are better than the lazy UK tossers :-)

But probably the Kiwis who got off their ass and went to London aren't lazy druggies.

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Friends of ours in Brisbane mentioned that Kiwi workers have a reputation for being lazy and more interested in their smoko breaks. There was an article on one of those early evening shows last week about the difficulty of employing young people in the trades. They all want to start on large salaries rather than put the hard yards in work their way up in the world. I do believe that some parents have raised 'entitled' children. Thankfully I know some kids that are very hard-working and show initiative. I'd like to think they are in the majority.

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They're on their OE. Who knows what they drink and smoke. They OE for a good time and adventure.

This will be more about the ones that don't or cannot afford to OE. The ones that could do the orchard/vineyard work but don't want to as it is hard work and low pay.

That is why NZ Immigration has the seasonal workers policy to bring in the Pacific Islanders each year. It is because the locals will not do the work. The orchards and vineyards rely on that policy + backpackers on WHV to make up the workforce.

There are some that routinely work at the vineyards tying vines etc but mostly those are the more mature rural person that grew up with nothing but that work & farming.

I will also say here , that is why corrections officers are in a special immy category as NZ Corrections cannot keep the posts filled so must look to overseas. It is work that many Kiwis do not want .

I am no fan of John Key at all. His policies & his ministers are the pits , IMO of course. However , on the subject of New Zealand needing immigrants, temporary or otherwise, he is correct. NZ needs immigrants & NZ needs to face up to that fact that NZ needs immigrants more than immigrants need NZ.

Re: What an embarrassment this man is....
 

Not too long ago I was working on an advisory role ref utilities and maintenance for a large molding company in Chippenham UK that, although paying good wages could not fill too many job vacancies for manual work. Hence the company, daily, had to bring in a bus full of Polish and Latvian workers from an agency based in Cirencester. The local lads were mostly signed on claiming benefits and working cash in hand on building work. So, no they were not lazy just people who could earn more by doing easier, more flexible work. ;)

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Should I move your post to the UK forum Stormer, as it is about the UK & bugger all to do with New ZEaland . Perhaps those living there would like to comment.

This is about NZ, and the comments the actual very Kiwi NZ Prime Minister made.

Have you read the article ? What do you think of his comments? This doesn't just come from him alone y'know. This comes from actual employers here.

Should NZ adjust it's seasonal worker policy perhaps and alter how Work & Income gives benefits to those locals unwilling to take up local paid employment ?

Given the area where I live and the people we know here, I'd say he reflects how several of the employers feel. They need the Pacific Islands to come in. The exception to this is the Talley's fishing boat operation. Tough work with tougher shifts out to sea BUT money to be made and those workers choose to either work hard and play hard or work hard and save hard. Mostly Maori and semi-rural small town folk where job opportunities are very limited for those with no skills and basic school education.

The black economy, tax dodging, issue in NZ is a whole other matter and perhaps for another thread.

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I think Stormer's comment and mine merely reflect that the problems are common to both NZ and UK. Can you imagine the outrage if May made those comments.Yet we complain politicians don't tell it as it is 😀

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Yes... but. I can't see Theresa May dissing her fellow countrymen quite like Key just did.

Typical National party attitude, from him and his ministers :frown:

It's quite clear Key is under pressure about the high immigration numbers and Auckland housing market, so he picked on an easy target as usual.

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*sigh* Yes. You two are the everlasting defenders of the faith. :rolleyes:

Do you have an actual viewpoint or opinion on Key's observations to share.

I hadn't even thought about whether he should have voiced his thoughts as he did. I was far more focused on the issues he raised as it is about NZ which is where I am.

How about you guys?

Is he right? Wrong? A bit of both?

If NZ does not like the immigration numbers coming in be it temp. or perm. , then what does one suggest can be done to change that.

Re: What an embarrassment this man is....
 

Well yes. I am no fan of him or his Ministers as I said. However doesn't NZ pride itself on its straight talking . Winston Peters is just the same. :p

Who is the easy target then?

Do his observations hold some truth?

There is a discussion that could be had about the issue raised if people stop being defensive.

Re: What an embarrassment this man is....
 

New Zealand has suffered from a seasonal worker shortage for decades, so this is absolutely nothing new. Most people want a permanent job, not a fill-in.

Seasonal work used to be something mums did to earn some extra cash or students doing holiday work, backpackers etc.

Not sure if this is still the case, but once you finished a temp job and went back on the benefit, you had a stand-down period with no income.

What is the pay like for fruit picking anyway? Are orchardists paying enough to attract NZ workers or do they rely on cheap labour from the Pacific Islands to make a profit, therefore keep wages low?

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Forgive me for liking the country I know call home and wanting to defend it. It seems I am obviously on the wrong Forum...Maybe it is time to join all of my fellow ex posters and just settle down and enjoy my new found happiness and divorce my readings from others who dislike what the country and people have to offer. :nod:

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Poor people, unemployed people, solo parents, people on benefits.

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Relax - I just come on to occasionally rebut some of the falsely negative comments often driven purely by political viewpoints. Potential migrants need that balance or they would run screaming from the hellhole in the Pacific that is NZ (of course that would limit the migration rate so perhaps I am wrong :-)

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Hard working unskilled labourers and factory workers are still heading off to Australia which pays it's low skilled workers higher wages. Some reports from clients of mine say up to 30% higher. I guess we have to replace them somehow.

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I'm inclined to agree. It's spooky how the headlines in both countries are so similar. Crime, booze, immigration etc.. In fact, so spooky I can't help wondering whether there really is a hidden hand ruling the globe.

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Got it in one. Roll on TPP.

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Well, I'm not totally clear on this but if they are advertising for people who are lazy and on drugs to fill in for the locals I might give it a go.

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Sigh back at you.

The UK (amongst many other countries including NZ and the USA) has the same perennial problem.

Low paid seasonal work is the mainstay of agriculture; picking apples in NZ or picking cabbages in Lincolnshire.

Back in the day the migrant work force used to be sourced from the local cities (as for hop pickers in Kent) or used to travel the country following the work (such as the herring gutters who followed the fleets around the coast).

There is no such pool of cheap labour in the UK these days, and presumably not in NZ either. It is not possible to live and buy a house and raise well educated kids just on low paid seasonal work. In the UK people are generally in permanent low paid jobs or on the dole and housing benefit. They also know a lot more about their rights, about H&S at work, about the minimum wage and maximum working week.

The solution is to import cheap labour from somewhere with a low cost of living and probably a low standard of living as well.

In the UK this tends to be Eastern Europe and Portugal.

In NZ this looks to be the Pacific Islands.

Either increase the wages of the work force and accept that production costs will rise and the cost of produce will rise, or accept that the agricultural (and some others) economy is reliant on cheap labour. If the imported labour can be exploited because of their vulnerability this keeps costs down even further.

This is a global problem not a specific NZ one; the only thing specific to NZ is the source of the pool of cheap easily exploited labour.

Back in the day (before the welfare state and cheap international travel) industry relied on locally exploited cheap labour on starvation wages. Mining companies even had their own currency which could only be spent at the company store.

These days in First World countries there is little supply of cheap and vulnerable labour locally (thank $Deity) so people turn a blind eye to the exploitation of immigrant labour because their food is cheap.

So the sentiment is almost correct; immigrant slave(ish) labour is required to maintain the economy because the locals are too well educated and savvy to be exploited in this way. Not because they are lazy druggies.

Re: What an embarrassment this man is....
 

Slightly off topic (again). I liked this quote from a local candidate in the imminent Mayoral elections.

'It is learned skill to be able to say there is an answer - and the answer is 'No'. People might not like the answer but they appreciate getting it straight'.

Re: What an embarrassment this man is....
 

wasn't it Norman Tebbit who was misquoted as telling the unemployed to "get on their bikes" but it still made an impact.

then you had the youth scheme in the UK, can't remember its name, where they were pay below minimum wage to work. My son was on one such scheme and said it was slave labour and once the 6 weeks were up no offer of "real" employment just move on and the next lot came in.

My daughter here in NZ has a job she is under 16 so there is no law for her being on minimum wage, it only counts when she is 16 yet she is doing the same work as all the others and is paid less because of the 16 years old rule, how is that fair?

I have a friend working in the new Kapiti express way/Transmission gully and they have the Pacific Islanders working, or not as she tells it.


But to be fair its not just the lower paid jobs where the problem lies, it seems very hard to get rid of anyone in a job once they have it, even if that cannot do the work. MrF has seen first hand the difficulty of getting good people into roles that are filled by people that are just not up to it.
The attitude that jobs for the "boys" (meaning friends of friends etc) is very prevalent in NZ and that needs to stop.

Give a living wage, not minimum wage, look after the people in jobs and upskill them if necessary. Make it easier to claim welfare for the people doing seasonal work so it is beneficial to work away from home for the months they are away. If they have done seasonal work and can show that they would be back again give them a higher benefit when waiting for work than those that seemingly not bothered.

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Freezing works/meat works never have trouble filling seasonal vacancies because they pay good wages.

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It was about $25 for a full apple crate (That's a huge crate that you could hitch on the back of a tractor) when I did it, back breaking work and the seasoned workers were very scary, if you accidentally picked an apple from their side of the tree there was outright war.

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If growers paid a much higher rate they would go out of business (as the citrus growers are around Keri). Less orchardists, less NZ jobs. I know, lets start erecting tariff barriers like in the 1950-70s to keep out those nasty imports. Then we can start a thread 'Rip off apples at $2 each'

Damn, if we erect tariff barriers other countries won't accept our exports..... and so on ad infinitum.

Re: What an embarrassment this man is....
 

The apple picking was about 11 yrs ago now so maybe the pay may be slightly better but I honestly doubt it.
Tomato picking was $12.50 an hr, another seasonal job I did, you went home yellow from all the tomato plant sap and dehydrated from working in a glass house but you had a nice healthy tan.
Dairy farming was another seasonal job I did for $19 an hr and free petrol, meat for the freezer and milk which sounds awesome but you have to get up at 2am and go back again a 2pm ... 2 milkings a day. And you freeze in the winter. Dairy ended my love of working in the rural industry, not the shite hours, it was the jersey bull that attacked me in the milking yard and left me unable to walk for 12 wks that really did it and ACC did not come to the party for all of those 12 wks until my MRI proved my injury.
Seasonal work sucks, but if you're a migrant and you want money you will do it gladly with a smile on your face for a while at least until you find something better.
Retail is another industry that pays rubbish money $16.50 an hr to take loads of abuse from managers and supervisors and do everything from cleaning to book keeping.
Key is just a rich man who has never ever had to dirty his hands in any of these industries, he won't have a clue. I can't wait to vote him out.

Re: What an embarrassment this man is....
 

You've had two opportunities to vote him out already !!

He made a decision to better himself and support his single parent mother after watching her struggle to pay off debts that were left to her by his father. Lived in a caravan for a while, then a state house,left alone at night while his mum went to work. A hard life doesn't always involve doing low paid work.


Decided as a kid that he would a) make a million dollars and b) become prime minister. walked away from a chance at potentially one of the biggest jobs in the world, Global CEO of Merrill Lynch.


Under his leadership two global recessions practically pass by NZ without causing a ripple or any major job losses, NZ economy rates as one of the most stable in the world. Despite all the protests, no one is drilling for oil or digging up DOC land, he wasn't responsible for the Rena disaster or the Christchurch earthquake, although the way people whinge about it you'd think both events were all his fault


Vote for Andrew Little if you think he can do better, its a democracy after all, but don't start bleating on about how crap he is a year or two down the line when the greens and the racist NZ first and Mana party are calling all the shots

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:goodpost:

I was going to respond in kind but managed to restrain myself (hard to believe I know) ;)

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OK, so that's two votes for JK then :lol:

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Deary me, talking politics always gets people bristling doesn't it, I don't really care what he did as he grew up, I just care about what is happening to the country now so yep I'll be voting against the national party once again come the next election.

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But this is why I find his attitude so unconscionable.
He has no sympathy for the poor and only greases-up to the wealthy class.

What gets my goat: wants to get rid of state housing that he himself benefited from!

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Is that definitely happening????

I'm sure Mr Trump and Mrs Clinton have promised to veto it. Like the TTIP deal, I read congress are delaying signing it off because of it.

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Had to post this.
JK to a tee....

"The reality is that you don’t have to be smart to make a lot of money. All you need is greed. And that can’t be taught in business schools. In fact, when I went to work as a balance-of-payments analyst at Chase Manhattan in 1964, I was told that the best currency traders came from the Brooklyn or Hong Kong slums. Their entire life was devoted to making money, to rise into the class of the proverbial Babbitts of our time: nouveau riches lacking in real culture or intellectual curiosity."

Celebrating the One Percent: Is Inequality Really Good for the Economy? | Michael Hudson