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What alternative viewpoints are allowed?

What alternative viewpoints are allowed?

Old Nov 20th 2012, 11:40 am
  #1  
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Default What alternative viewpoints are allowed?

I think I'm going to be finding it very difficult to post my viewpoint on here shortly. Possibly to the relief of the forum viewers and all concerned.

Putting a contrary viewpoint across normally means some sort of disagreement with someone else. For example, if someone says kiwi's, are not good people to socialise with (on many levels). Is any sort of exploration of that opinion allowed, as to why they feel that way or any contrary viewpoint to that? I believe that is a pretty heavy sort of sweeping generalising statement to make. Can people not see that this viewpoint is just a tiny bit racist? Yes, I know that a New Zealander is not a race. Semantics. Hard to get to know. Yes. Perhaps. All of us. No, I don't think so. Unsociable? Some. All? No way. You can't make generalisations like that about a whole people. I certainly don't feel a challenge to the view is a pile of rubbish.

Perhaps I'm a bit precious, I accept that, and I'll probably regret this in the morning. Oh well, I've said what I feel publicly. For better or worse. I just hate this labelling of one people, race, or whatever, in whatever capacity, so much.
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Old Nov 20th 2012, 11:51 am
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Default Re: What alternative viewpoints are allowed?

By the way, I'm asking the moderator to close my account via this message.
After my little tirade, Brit Expats forumites will be too scared to say anything, if I'm still around. I have said I am leaving 2 or 3 times before, but have not been able to resist posting. So if the moderator closes my account, that will make it final and I won't be tempted to post anything and annoy you all. Then I can get on with painting the house, which is my next big job on my list.
All the best everyone! Waikatoguy signing off.
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Old Nov 20th 2012, 12:00 pm
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Default Re: What alternative viewpoints are allowed?

For what it is worth, a blanket statement about people being one thing or another, says more about the person making the statement than the object of the statement.

I have seen "it's difficult to make friends"......etc., etc, in just about every country forum in B.E.

I have personally found MOST Australians to be nothing other than welcoming, friendly and helpful. Other have said differently.

There seems to be no answer to this.

But insults should not be allowed.

Best of.
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Old Nov 20th 2012, 12:07 pm
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Default Re: What alternative viewpoints are allowed?

Hi Waikatoguy!

Don't go! I like reading your posts. They are balanced and well writtenv and I like to read points of view from a Kiwi. I too am getting fed up with this site and also thought about leaving. The negativity in the NZ forum drives me nuts. If you look in the other countries forums there is not this level of bitching and arguments. Why is it only NZ I ask? Part of the reason, as you mention, is because some people come in with snide one liners about Kiwi's being unfriendly blah blah blah. How can you expect people to not get annoyed and upset by that?

I like to read balanced posts about positives and negatives and cannot stand it when people put things like "Kiwi's are this...Kiwi's are that." I defended Kiwi's in my last post saying how awesome you are but got told that the only reason I think they are awesome is because they are my OH's family! Bloody cheek! But typically the thread got closed and I couldn't post a defence. Yes, they are my OH's family but we came in to contact with many other Kiwi's whilst we were there and have stayed in touch. The OH and I went to a couple of get togethers whilst in NZ and found you all to be a lovely bunch of people. As I said before I have stayed in touch and they keep saying how excited they are to have us back over soon.
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Old Nov 20th 2012, 1:11 pm
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Default Re: What alternative viewpoints are allowed?

Originally Posted by Pom_Chch View Post
Hi Waikatoguy!

Don't go! I like reading your posts.
Me too.

But the complaints about New Zealanders aren't racist, xenonphobic at worse, but I don't think they're intended to be either to be honest.


I married a Kiwi and I dated another Kiwi for 4 years before meeting my wife and have spent time with both the wifes and ex's families in both the UK and NZ. Sure there are some oddballs in both families, but then I look at my own family, all British, of which there are some interesting characters.

Being from any give country obviously doesn't define anyone, so I agree with your post.
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Old Nov 20th 2012, 3:29 pm
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Default Re: What alternative viewpoints are allowed?

Originally Posted by TommyLuck View Post
Being from any give country obviously doesn't define anyone, so I agree with your post.
Agree with this statement. There are dick heads everywhere you go. The UK has it's fair share but I wouldn't generalise the whole population like some people seem to do on here.

I don't understand why it's so prevalent in the NZ forum. Looking through threads in the Canada, Europe and UK sections the bitching doesn't seem to be there. Sure it exists but not on the same level as here. My only logical response to this is that (from what I've seen) there seem to be people who have moved to NZ and had bad experiences or it's not worked out for them (but surely this can happen emigrating anywhere?). They are bitter, pissed off and across the other side of the world and feel the need to rain on everyone else's parade. I find this sad, selfish, pathetic and is just not called for. It puts me off using the forum and I find it damaging to people thinking of emigrating as they aren't getting the full picture, just a load of inaccurate and bitter comments. I'm not talking about balanced posts with positives, negatives and some of the realisations of living in NZ, those are helpful. I'm talking about the one liners from certain posters (I can think of 4 people off the top of my head) that IMO are a way of flaring up emotions and there for the pure intention of pissing people off. I'm pretty sure one of them in not mentally stable and I hope they seek help. One example being a post by someone the other day about "something positive in NZ." An article about how NZ has been voted a top travel destination by Brits. And what happens? You get the same 3 or 4 people posting negative and snide comments in relation to the article. How does this make the NZ forum look? Not good would be my answer! I think a little more needs to be done from moderators to stop this on threads that are supposed to be about good news. I sincerely hope this happens otherwise people are going to ditch it all together. I know another poster did just that the other day and with Waikatoguy doing the same and me probably following in his footsteps something needs to be done. Yeah you may think "oh well whatever no loss" but I feel that if it carries on other people who have been helpful and constructive will begin to leave too...
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Old Nov 20th 2012, 3:55 pm
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Default Re: What alternative viewpoints are allowed?

Well said

I agree with your sentiment, though had I written it somehow it would have been construed as confrontational.

Originally Posted by Pom_Chch View Post
It puts me off using the forum and I find it damaging to people thinking of emigrating as they aren't getting the full picture, just a load of inaccurate and bitter comments.
It doesn't put me off using the forum, per se, if only because it means they get the satisfaction of 'winning' the argument, by the rose tinted, happy clappers disappearing.

Having said this, I'm not one to see everything negatively. One thing the recent activity on this forum has taught me, is because careful about which ex-pat friends you choose


I would also like to add that I'm by no means bracketing every little moan as 'negative'.

Mentioning that the weather is rubbish today is a GOOD thing for me to read. Whilst blindingly obvious, it also correctly reminds me that I shouldn't expect 365 days of sunshine.

But the incessant derision of certain aspects of New Zealand, for instance; the locals and their general nature and how they go about living their life isn't good for anyone. Most of all, online or in true life it certainly isn't going to improve relationship between expats and the locals is it? Vicious circle.

It amazes me that people get their backs up when a Kiwi has got their back up because you've criticised something about New Zealand?

I certainly get defensive about the UK if an immigrant criticises something that I don't agree with, I will at least counter the argument. Agressively, of course The classic;

Kiwi/Aussie: "Why is your beer warm? Tastes like p**s".

Me: "Because we actually like to brew ale free from chemicals, whilst not chilling the balls out of it so that every damn drink tastes the same. Develop your tasebuds, come back to me and I'll teach you about ale. There are breweries in the UK older than your country!!"

Usually starts another round of banter and fun poking.

Last edited by TommyLuck; Nov 20th 2012 at 4:07 pm.
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Old Nov 20th 2012, 4:07 pm
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Default Re: What alternative viewpoints are allowed?

I will miss my ales
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Old Nov 20th 2012, 4:34 pm
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Default Re: What alternative viewpoints are allowed?

Originally Posted by Pom_Chch View Post
I don't understand why it's so prevalent in the NZ forum. Looking through threads in the Canada, Europe and UK sections the bitching doesn't seem to be there. Sure it exists but not on the same level as here. ...
I think the answer to this is pretty obvious, but many people don't want to see it.
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Old Nov 20th 2012, 4:46 pm
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Default Re: What alternative viewpoints are allowed?

Originally Posted by ExKiwilass View Post
I think the answer to this is pretty obvious, but many people don't want to see it.
Actually I didn't mean it like that. What I meant was in other forums there are positives and negatives about the country in question. Most of which seems balanced, without argument and without personal insults. However, the NZ forum appears to try and be balanced but certain people come in and destroy it all, even on threads that are designed to be positive. This doesn't seem to happen in other forums.
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Old Nov 20th 2012, 4:57 pm
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Default Re: What alternative viewpoints are allowed?

Originally Posted by Pom_Chch View Post
Actually I didn't mean it like that. What I meant was in other forums there are positives and negatives about the country in question. Most of which seems balanced, without argument and without personal insults. However, the NZ forum appears to try and be balanced but certain people come in and destroy it all, even on threads that are designed to be positive. This doesn't seem to happen in other forums.
but isn't it interesting that posters feel the need to even create "positive" threads about NZ. it kind of begs the question - why do people feel they have to go out of their way to be positive about the place, in a way other forums about other countries don't need to? There's an insecurity there (imo).
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Old Nov 20th 2012, 4:58 pm
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Default Re: What alternative viewpoints are allowed?

Originally Posted by ExKiwilass View Post
but isn't it interesting that posters feel the need to even create "positive" threads about NZ. it kind of begs the question - why do people feel they have to go out of their way to be positive about the place, in a way other forums about other countries don't need to? There's an insecurity there (imo).
Sorry to butt in but that's what really struck me when reading the NZ forum.
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Old Nov 20th 2012, 5:05 pm
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Default Re: What alternative viewpoints are allowed?

Originally Posted by Sally Redux View Post
Sorry to butt in but that's what really struck me when reading the NZ forum.
It's always struck me too when I haven't been in here for a while. The phrase "doth protest too much" springs to mind.
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Old Nov 20th 2012, 5:08 pm
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Default Re: What alternative viewpoints are allowed?

Originally Posted by ExKiwilass View Post
but isn't it interesting that posters feel the need to even create "positive" threads about NZ. it kind of begs the question - why do people feel they have to go out of their way to be positive about the place, in a way other forums about other countries don't need to? There's an insecurity there (imo).
This doesn't just happen in the NZ forum. Perhaps it happens more because people are trying to balance out the snide one liners the mentally unstable people come up with.

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=773097

On the UK forum - people trying to convince themselves the country isn't buggered financially. This to me in a huge insecurity.
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Old Nov 20th 2012, 5:14 pm
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Default Re: What alternative viewpoints are allowed?

I disagree, it's more noticeable on the NZ forum.
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