Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > New Zealand
Reload this Page >

The way forward for grandparent?

The way forward for grandparent?

Old Aug 30th 2019, 12:29 am
  #16  
BE Forum Addict
 
escapedtonz's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2012
Location: Te Puna, Tauranga
Posts: 1,407
escapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The way forward for grandparent?

Originally Posted by BEVS View Post
If I may.

MumofKiwis twins automatically became NZ citizens when they were born on NZ soil in 1983. It mattered not what status the parents held. It mattered the child was not somehow stateless.

It was not until 2005 that The Citizenship Act of 1977 was amended with regard to this.
Aw damn!
Thought the OP may have had the chance of bypassing the Parent Category issue.
Wasn't aware of the Citizenship act eligibility dates.....should've checked first.
Must admit, I can't quite believe Immigration NZ (in 1983) would approve a visa for someone overseas who was 6 months pregnant with twins knowing full well 3 months down the line those twins would be born and become NZ citizens by birth.
Ah well I hope the OP still approaches INZ as you just never know. Very slim chance but sometimes slim works.
escapedtonz is offline  
Old Aug 30th 2019, 1:16 am
  #17  
BE Site Lead & Admin
 
BEVS's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Below
Posts: 34,185
BEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The way forward for grandparent?

Originally Posted by escapedtonz View Post
Aw damn!
Thought the OP may have had the chance of bypassing the Parent Category issue.
It was a good thought.
Wasn't aware of the Citizenship act eligibility dates.....should've checked first.
Must admit, I can't quite believe Immigration NZ (in 1983) would approve a visa for someone overseas who was 6 months pregnant with twins knowing full well 3 months down the line those twins would be born and become NZ citizens by birth.
Times change. Things are far different now to back then. Assisted passage had not long stopped but NZ still needed people. Jus soli was a norm .This changed gradually as countries drew away from commonality and looked to their own lands. In fact the first to withdraw Jus Soli was Britain itself.

Look on it more as a permit for the contracted company to complete the work more than an individual visa criteria thing. It was a reciprocal agreement . The permits would have been issued for the employees and their families & specifically for that contract. The contract was important for NZ and they needed to encourage the relevant people with the expertise to come all this way to do the work & back then it was a very long way indeed. That someone may have been pregnant and the children become dual citizens was not of concern. Likely, had the family chosen to remain, they would have been welcomed with very wide and smiling open arms .

BEVS is offline  
Old Aug 30th 2019, 1:28 am
  #18  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 22
MumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud of
Default Re: The way forward for grandparent?

Aw, escapedtonz,

You learn something new every day!!! I must admit, you have raised a good point! It certainly didn't occur to me at the time that I might not be granted a visa . . . perhaps back in 1983 the guys in charge weren't too concerned about increasing the number of NZ citizens for a relatively short time . . . as the boys had dual citizenship when they were born, and the fact that we were in NZ purely as part of the UK contingent building the mill, perhaps they assumed we would all return to the UK when the mill was completed and never return! Little did they know that when the boys reached adulthood they would return to the country of their birth . . . I think that was probably our fault as we often extolled the virtues of living in New Zealand even though we only lived there for about eighteen months!
MumofKiwis is offline  
Old Aug 30th 2019, 1:33 am
  #19  
BE Site Lead & Admin
 
BEVS's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Below
Posts: 34,185
BEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The way forward for grandparent?

Originally Posted by MumofKiwis View Post
Aw, escapedtonz,

You learn something new every day!!! I must admit, you have raised a good point! It certainly didn't occur to me at the time that I might not be granted a visa . . . perhaps back in 1983 the guys in charge weren't too concerned about increasing the number of NZ citizens for a relatively short time . . . as the boys had dual citizenship when they were born, and the fact that we were in NZ purely as part of the UK contingent building the mill, perhaps they assumed we would all return to the UK when the mill was completed and never return! Little did they know that when the boys reached adulthood they would return to the country of their birth . . . I think that was probably our fault as we often extolled the virtues of living in New Zealand even though we only lived there for about eighteen months!
Oh. I rather think it was a sweetener carrot and stick thing. You all came and then hopefully wished to remain and settle which was all good for NZ back then. A win win.

Out of curiosity, did you all return or did some choose to remain.

BEVS is offline  
Old Aug 30th 2019, 1:34 am
  #20  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 22
MumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud of
Default Re: The way forward for grandparent?

Hi BEVS,

Your explanation makes a lot of sense, and very well expressed. Thank you.
MumofKiwis is offline  
Old Aug 30th 2019, 1:37 am
  #21  
She'll be right
 
Pom_Chch's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Location: Near the beach, NZ
Posts: 1,425
Pom_Chch has a reputation beyond reputePom_Chch has a reputation beyond reputePom_Chch has a reputation beyond reputePom_Chch has a reputation beyond reputePom_Chch has a reputation beyond reputePom_Chch has a reputation beyond reputePom_Chch has a reputation beyond reputePom_Chch has a reputation beyond reputePom_Chch has a reputation beyond reputePom_Chch has a reputation beyond reputePom_Chch has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The way forward for grandparent?

Originally Posted by MumofKiwis View Post
Hi Pom_Chch,

ILast year I did house-sit for a work colleague of my son, looking after a cat for two weeks, and that worked out well. And it was in the right locality for visiting my grandson! I will definitely look into that again . . . thanks for the reminder!
You're welcome! That could be a good option rather than official house sitting. Ask your son's to ask around their friends or at work for anyone who might need a house sitter. You could even join a local Facebook group and Neighbourly where your son's live and ask on there. There's always people asking for a house sitters in my area, could be worth a go, you never know 😊
Pom_Chch is offline  
Old Aug 30th 2019, 1:49 am
  #22  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 22
MumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud of
Default Re: The way forward for grandparent?

Hi BEVS,

Sorry, our posts crossed each other!

To be honest I'm not sure if any expats stayed. Most had families back in the UK (parents and siblings) and the stay in NZ was thought of as a relatively short period of relocation . . . if the period had been even shorter I think many of the wives and children would have remained in the UK with only the husbands relocating.
MumofKiwis is offline  
Old Aug 31st 2019, 12:21 am
  #23  
BE Forum Addict
 
escapedtonz's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2012
Location: Te Puna, Tauranga
Posts: 1,407
escapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The way forward for grandparent?

Originally Posted by Pom_Chch View Post
have you considered house sitting in NZ? And then after your 6 month tourist visa is up pop across to Oz for a holiday and then you will come back into NZ with another 6 months
Unfortunately INZ has procedures in place to stop this malarkey.
Yes people from the UK (a visa waiver country and must hold NZeTA from 1st October 2019) can come here as visitors for 6 months, however the Visitor Visa rule is a maximum of 9 months stay in any 18 month period which is calculated backwards from the last day you intend to be in New Zealand. You then have the option to apply for a further 3 months stay making it maximum 12 months in any 24 months but then after each of these periods (9 in any 18 OR 12 in any 24) you must stay away for minimum 12 months before you can even apply for another visitor visa.
escapedtonz is offline  
Old Aug 31st 2019, 3:51 am
  #24  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 22
MumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud of
Default Re: The way forward for grandparent?

Hi escapedtonz,

Thanks for the info. I'm assuming your describing the Visitor Visa regulations? I've been comparing that one with the Grandparent & Parent Visitor Visa which seems to allow a maximum of 6 months per stay with a maximum of 18 months in 3 years after which another visa can then be applied for . . . if I understand that correctly it would mean I could visit NZ for 6 months each year providing I am then out of NZ for the remainder of the year . . . and re-apply for another visa every three years. With that visa I would only have to go 6 months without seeing my family (in person that is). The disadvantage with the Grandparent & Parent Visitor Visa seems to be the amount of checks and paperwork that has to be provided on application, and the cost involved in obtaining the required documentation. It's all a bit overwhelming!

I've just had a thought . . . is house-sitting/pet-sitting considered "work"? Not allowed on a visitor visa! Eek!
MumofKiwis is offline  
Old Aug 31st 2019, 4:35 am
  #25  
BE Forum Addict
 
escapedtonz's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2012
Location: Te Puna, Tauranga
Posts: 1,407
escapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The way forward for grandparent?

Originally Posted by MumofKiwis View Post
Hi escapedtonz,

Thanks for the info. I'm assuming your describing the Visitor Visa regulations? I've been comparing that one with the Grandparent & Parent Visitor Visa which seems to allow a maximum of 6 months per stay with a maximum of 18 months in 3 years after which another visa can then be applied for . . . if I understand that correctly it would mean I could visit NZ for 6 months each year providing I am then out of NZ for the remainder of the year . . . and re-apply for another visa every three years. With that visa I would only have to go 6 months without seeing my family (in person that is). The disadvantage with the Grandparent & Parent Visitor Visa seems to be the amount of checks and paperwork that has to be provided on application, and the cost involved in obtaining the required documentation. It's all a bit overwhelming!

I've just had a thought . . . is house-sitting/pet-sitting considered "work"? Not allowed on a visitor visa! Eek!
Yes I am describing the 'normal' Visitor Visa category. You do not have to formally apply for this visa as the UK is a Visa Waiver Country. So long as you meet the requirements you will be allowed to travel - good health, character, have the funds, onward travel ticket etc etc. On arrival in NZ all you need to do is complete the passenger arrival card which acts as your legal declaration for the purposes of the visa.

You do have the option of the Parent & Grandparent Visitor Visa that is valid for a period of 3 years and allows you to come and go as you please for the whole period so long as you don't stay more than 6 months each time and no more than 18 months in the 3 years. There does not seem to be a "stand down" period meaning you could essentially apply for another of this type of visa straight after expiry. Only downside to this as you say is you have to formally apply for the visa, provide the evidence, pay a fee (currently $260) and wait around 4 months for the processing.

In my opinion House Sitting on a Visitor Visa is Not Allowed.
Work is defined as any activity undertaken for gain or reward with some exclusions but more specifically, 'Gain or reward' includes any payment or benefit that can be valued in terms of money, such as board and lodging, goods (e.g. food or clothing) and services (e.g. transport).
This is all explained in W2.2.1 Definition of ‘work’ in the Immigration Operations Manual.
https://www.immigration.govt.nz/opsmanual/#46191.htm
escapedtonz is offline  
Old Aug 31st 2019, 7:16 am
  #26  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: bottom of the world
Posts: 3,951
Justcol has a reputation beyond reputeJustcol has a reputation beyond reputeJustcol has a reputation beyond reputeJustcol has a reputation beyond reputeJustcol has a reputation beyond reputeJustcol has a reputation beyond reputeJustcol has a reputation beyond reputeJustcol has a reputation beyond reputeJustcol has a reputation beyond reputeJustcol has a reputation beyond reputeJustcol has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The way forward for grandparent?

I have been looking at a similar thing to enable me and my kiwi wife to spend a couple of years in France with my son. Turns out I can't, the time restrictions are the same as here. No point trying to sneak in through the back door, it's not allowed, end of story.
Justcol is offline  
Old Aug 31st 2019, 7:37 am
  #27  
BE Site Lead & Admin
 
BEVS's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Below
Posts: 34,185
BEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The way forward for grandparent?

Originally Posted by MumofKiwis View Post

I've just had a thought . . . is house-sitting/pet-sitting considered "work"? Not allowed on a visitor visa! Eek!
If you were to house sit for , say , six months, then you could uplift a temp work visa. Simples.

Have a chat with these people . They will be in the know.

I have been looking at a similar thing to enable me and my kiwi wife to spend a couple of years in France with my son. Turns out I can't, the time restrictions are the same as here. No point trying to sneak in through the back door, it's not allowed, end of story.
Can you update on this thread about this please Col as that rather surprises me.
as that is of interest to me also.


BEVS is offline  
Old Aug 31st 2019, 1:09 pm
  #28  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 22
MumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud ofMumofKiwis has much to be proud of
Default Re: The way forward for grandparent?

Hi escapedtonz,

Thanks for your clarification of the Grandparent & Parent Visitor Visa . . . you put it so much better than I do.

Also good to know I'm not alone in thinking house-sitting/pet-sitting is considered work and therefore not allowed on a visitor visa. Thanks for the link to the Immigratiion Operational Manual, a real mine of information!

BEVS, I've been searching the Government website for temporary work visa but can only find mention of two basic types of work visa . . . (here is an extract from the website) . . .

"There are a range of work visas for people that work in a profession that is experiencing skill shortages or have a job offer from a New Zealand employer. Most work visas do not have an age limit.

The Working holiday visa is designed for young people, aged 18-30 or 35, depending on Citizenship. This option lets you travel and work in New Zealand for up to 12 months, or 23 months if you’re from the UK or Canada."

And the Immigration Operational Manual states . . .

There are four streams within work visa instructions:
  1. The skilled stream;
  2. The family stream;
  3. The international/humanitarian stream; and
  4. The special work stream.
As I don't think I have any skills not available in NZ (and no job offer from a NZ employer), option 1 does not apply.
As I won't be joining a working "partner", option 2 does not apply.
As I'm too old for the Working Holiday visa, option 3 does not apply.
As I'm not a seasonal worker, fisherman on a fishing vessel, or religious worker, option 4 does not apply.

I think a temporary work visa is a non-starter! However, I have emailed the company you referred me to for their view on house-sitting in New Zealand as they may know something I don't!

Hey Justcol, sorry to hear about your situation. It's very frustrating isn't it . . . all you want is to spend some time with your nearest and dearest and you're met by an impenetrable "brick wall". It appears some countries have taken the "human" out of humanity! And whoever said the world is getting smaller hasn't read the immigration laws!
MumofKiwis is offline  
Old Aug 31st 2019, 8:11 pm
  #29  
BE Forum Addict
 
escapedtonz's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2012
Location: Te Puna, Tauranga
Posts: 1,407
escapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond reputeescapedtonz has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The way forward for grandparent?

Originally Posted by Justcol View Post
I have been looking at a similar thing to enable me and my kiwi wife to spend a couple of years in France with my son. Turns out I can't, the time restrictions are the same as here. No point trying to sneak in through the back door, it's not allowed, end of story.
Don't see why you would have any problems Justcol ?
I'd assume no issues for you as you are an EU/EEA National and as such have the right to visit France for whatever stay you like so long as you stick within the rules and register your intentions with the authorities once in France. In your wife's case, since she is a family member of your son who I assume is also an EU/EEA National - maybe even a French Citizen now ? then all she needs to do is apply for the required entry visa with proof of the relatives nationality and family relationship and then apply for a residence permit within 2 months of arrival and maintain that residence permit as required.
I'd expect your wife may have difficulties trying to be in France on an extended stay as an NZ citizen without the link to you and your son as EU/EEA Nationals but since there is that link I'd expect it to be pretty straight forward.
Maybe I'm missing something ?
escapedtonz is offline  
Old Sep 1st 2019, 12:17 am
  #30  
 
BritInParis's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Not in Paris
Posts: 15,663
BritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond reputeBritInParis has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The way forward for grandparent?

Originally Posted by escapedtonz View Post
Don't see why you would have any problems Justcol ?
I'd assume no issues for you as you are an EU/EEA National and as such have the right to visit France for whatever stay you like so long as you stick within the rules and register your intentions with the authorities once in France. In your wife's case, since she is a family member of your son who I assume is also an EU/EEA National - maybe even a French Citizen now ? then all she needs to do is apply for the required entry visa with proof of the relatives nationality and family relationship and then apply for a residence permit within 2 months of arrival and maintain that residence permit as required.
I'd expect your wife may have difficulties trying to be in France on an extended stay as an NZ citizen without the link to you and your son as EU/EEA Nationals but since there is that link I'd expect it to be pretty straight forward.
Maybe I'm missing something ?
All that goes away if the UK leaves the EU with no WA at the end of October.
BritInParis is offline  

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.