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This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR

This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR

Old Nov 17th 2009, 7:52 am
  #211  
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Default Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR

Unless you sell the property to buy something cheaper
Bingo, theres your answer


The credit cruch has shown us that those who are stupid enough to over
stretch themselves will lose their houses.
Yes this can, and has effected the ecconomy but even now we are seeing property
values starting to rise again.
Property values will fall, as they do on a regular basis, and will then climb again
beyond the point they were before the fall.
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Old Nov 17th 2009, 2:31 pm
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Default Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR

I'd like to come into this discussion here and say that some appear to be under the illusion that 'had work' got them their house. Well, they may work hard but so do millions of others in the world, and getting a mortgage and buying a housing then reselling it at a huge profit has absolutely nothing to do with hard work. There are many folks who have worked their guts off who never own a house and never will, simply because they can't afford it.

Some have made a fortune on the market as it has been over the past years. However, this won't last and anyone with any sense can see this. Some fortunate enough to have doubled their money, or more, have simply been in the right place at the right time. And, because folks have not joined the property bandwagon does not mean that they have been frivolous with their money or have been out on the town every weekend.

Personally, I can't wait for the property market to topple (as it surely will) and perhaps then sanity as oppossed to greed will once again take over.
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Old Nov 17th 2009, 4:50 pm
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Red face Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR

Phew, i feel like i just snorted a double-espresso after reading this thread. What earning/job prospects are there for IT Business Analysts in NZ at the moment.
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Old Nov 17th 2009, 6:01 pm
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Default Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR

well this is food for thought.
We are going through the emmigrating thing at the moment and this is not good news.
I have been offered a job in nz and it is paying $65000 which i am told is a average wage. We visited nz in may and found the cost of living about the same as uk but no lower.
Both me and my wife work in uk and she is prepared to work part time in nz.We have 2 kids,do not go out that often for a drink or a meal out and live comfortably within our means.
The idea of moving to nz was to get a better quality of life for our family,which means the kids can have more freedom and can do more outdoor activities.Also we could go walking, mountain biking, visiting the beach or skiing in the winter, and me play the occasional round of golf.
From what has been said here it sounds like we may have to rethink our plans. We will have capital from the sale of our house in the uk but we did not want to use that until we brought a house in a couple of years.
If anyone can put a link up for the income calculator that would be helpful.
The thing is i dont want to let go of the idea of coming to nz for many reasons, from the fact that we have spent alot of money already on visas and medicals to the fact that if we dont take the plunge and do this now there may never be another time to do it and if you dont do it you will always look back and wonder what if!!
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Old Nov 17th 2009, 6:25 pm
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Default Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR

Originally Posted by kiwiwoodpecker View Post
well this is food for thought.
We are going through the emmigrating thing at the moment and this is not good news.
I have been offered a job in nz and it is paying $65000 which i am told is a average wage. We visited nz in may and found the cost of living about the same as uk but no lower.
Both me and my wife work in uk and she is prepared to work part time in nz.We have 2 kids,do not go out that often for a drink or a meal out and live comfortably within our means.
The idea of moving to nz was to get a better quality of life for our family,which means the kids can have more freedom and can do more outdoor activities.Also we could go walking, mountain biking, visiting the beach or skiing in the winter, and me play the occasional round of golf.
From what has been said here it sounds like we may have to rethink our plans. We will have capital from the sale of our house in the uk but we did not want to use that until we brought a house in a couple of years.
If anyone can put a link up for the income calculator that would be helpful.
The thing is i dont want to let go of the idea of coming to nz for many reasons, from the fact that we have spent alot of money already on visas and medicals to the fact that if we dont take the plunge and do this now there may never be another time to do it and if you dont do it you will always look back and wonder what if!!
try this one www.xe.com/
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Old Nov 17th 2009, 6:29 pm
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Default Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR

Originally Posted by kiwiwoodpecker View Post
well this is food for thought.
We are going through the emmigrating thing at the moment and this is not good news.
I have been offered a job in nz and it is paying $65000 which i am told is a average wage. We visited nz in may and found the cost of living about the same as uk but no lower.
Both me and my wife work in uk and she is prepared to work part time in nz.We have 2 kids,do not go out that often for a drink or a meal out and live comfortably within our means.
The idea of moving to nz was to get a better quality of life for our family,which means the kids can have more freedom and can do more outdoor activities.Also we could go walking, mountain biking, visiting the beach or skiing in the winter, and me play the occasional round of golf.
From what has been said here it sounds like we may have to rethink our plans. We will have capital from the sale of our house in the uk but we did not want to use that until we brought a house in a couple of years.
If anyone can put a link up for the income calculator that would be helpful.
The thing is i dont want to let go of the idea of coming to nz for many reasons, from the fact that we have spent alot of money already on visas and medicals to the fact that if we dont take the plunge and do this now there may never be another time to do it and if you dont do it you will always look back and wonder what if!!
Where is the job offer? You'll need significantly more money to njoy life in Auckland than in Palmerston North, so it realy matters where you're heading to. $65K is doable, definitely and a good start It's considerably more than we came out here on.
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Old Nov 17th 2009, 6:49 pm
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Default Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR

kiwiwoodpecker hi

firstly many many people in NZ would love to earn $65k sure it might be average in your line of work but its way above average foe id say 70% of NZ. with $45k and possibly lower being normal.

Having said that there is help in the form of child benifit (nz style) but that is based on income.

I would say it really is subjective living here and I think thats why this forum is good as one mans poison is anothers..... and all these opinions as varied as they are can only help cant have to much info.

However all the tea ion china wont make up for how you will find it once here.

For us a family of 6, things have had many up's and down's money has been tight and then plenty then tight again and so on.

I would say a large part of your income will be eaten up in rent or mortgage and IMO if either can be avoided soon then do so.House prices are good at the moment so I would not wait 2 years if possible but would buy a place.

we did so after four months here,We liked dunedin and decided to stick with it for 3 years before seeing how we were doing,in those three years our hous went up in value by $20k in line with other house prices so has we chosen to leave (never going to happen) we would have had that money.

renting was ok for the short time but for me was dead money.Once we had our first house it also helped the girls and us settle in as it was OURS and we could really do the DIY and what the hell else we wnated to felt like tenants to much in the rental (der we were) but gave us very little of a homley feel.

I have posted our very basic what it costs us post just today,more of my blah blah blah but might give you a basic idea.

I say this alot but it all depends on what it is you REALLY want from the move.Only the very lucky will be debt free here living the postcard life that I percieve some on here see NZ as being.

For most of us I would say in some respects we struggle at times but on the whole this place is great.

If you are prepared to shop around for bargins ,grow your own veg and dont mind not having the bling bling to wear (not that you cant just costs) then you will be fine.

Thing is the changed we have made to our and the girls lifes since we came here are JUST why we came here we just didnt know it untill now.

We grow our own fruit and veg : no we didnt in the UK,why because we went to iceland,asda and alike and bought pre packed ready meals and alike and thought we were feeding ourselfs well!

We cook more and eat more fresh food: reasons the same as above added benifit ALL of my girls now can cook and I dont mean ready made pasta or tinnd custard I mean proper cook. from my ten year old up they all do.This would NEVER have happend in the uk(for us) as we didnt see the need to teach them.Suyre others in the UK do but im talking about positives here we have found.

We go out more as a family: sure we went out in the UK but here we do so much more because there is so much more to do in such a free and beutifull country.It does cost to do some stuff but camping isnt that expensive and can be free.When you fish you keep them and eat them if you want,beaches are fantastic,fruit picking,walking,mountain biking and I could go on and on.
Lifestyle for us is greta in that respect.

we dont lock ourselves in during the day: sure there is crime here be mad to think not however in south london we would bolt the back door during the day and not let the girls out into our own back garden to play unless we were out with them,at night there we would NEVER leave our bedroom window open no matter how hot at night outside for fear of someone climbing through it. If someone said "hi" to us in the street we would get suss as to why because we dont know you.people walked face down and what stuck in my mind was remembering watching all the london commuters walking over London bridge in the morning they all look so bloody un happy!

Here people say hallo and smile more,shop staff seem on the whole more freindly and because (and AGAIN this is Dunedin based) there are a fraction of the people here less stressd and closed in.Traffic here is well none!

School for our younger two is great our older two love polytech and uni life.Not as much of a Nanny state here and sport and rec is huge in schoolsl.Most if not all schools here have playing fields and great facilities and do sport all of them no matter what size.Its more a case of just get on with it and do your best rather than oh your fat so incase you sprain your self we better get you to sit it out! climb a tree here in school and fall out and they say dont fall out again as the trees have white climb to lines here!

so again I waffle on and again its very subjective to us as a family.

choose your area well rent for a few months only dont sign up for more than four!

go for it if it dosnt work atleast you wont be wondering forever and a day what if

good luck

george
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Old Nov 17th 2009, 8:02 pm
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Default Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR

Originally Posted by bourbon-biscuit View Post
Where is the job offer? You'll need significantly more money to njoy life in Auckland than in Palmerston North, so it realy matters where you're heading to. $65K is doable, definitely and a good start It's considerably more than we came out here on.
the job offer is in chch.
thanks george and bb it has given us another perspective on the whole thing. we really appreciate the time you took to write george and its exactly what we are hoping to get out of the whole adventure!
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Old Nov 17th 2009, 9:09 pm
  #219  
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Default Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR

Originally Posted by george toni View Post
kiwiwoodpecker hi


our house went up in value by $20k in line with other house prices so has we chosen to leave (never going to happen) we would have had that money.

renting was ok for the short time but for me was dead money.

choose your area well rent for a few months only dont sign up for more than four!
So right now they recokon that house prices are 6% off the bottom they reached about a year ago BUT the forecast for 2010 is down.....and don't be fooled by the old claim ' house prices always go up long term' ...they don't. There are plenty of examples of places where this hasn't happend for generations. Even in house owning New Zealand, with net inward migration the forecasts over the next few years are an increase in the single digit percentages. Compare this with long term interest rates which are about 4% pa.

What is true is that in a rental you will feel less 'at home' and be subject to your landlords whim. Here, rental stock, is a far lower quality generally that owner occupied and you probably wont get proper heating, double glazing etc.

What is also true is that you can improve the house you buy and raise it's value. A lot of kiwi homes could do with a bit of TLC - in fact I reckon you could increase the value just by having a sort out, clean and tidy in most.

....but do be aware that DIY materials and builders / painters are very expensive here - and I mean over twice the price pound for dollar - forget about average earnings which would make the difference even more. For example look at the price of paint here! Add to this that local planning is stupidly slow. Finally you need to inform yourslef about what would raise the value of a hosue and what would not. For example installing central heating, or DG, or even insualtion will probably not increase the value of your house as the average kiwi doesn't see the point (actually things are changing a bit with insulation). The standard things like new kitchens and bathrooms are what tends to sell places, as well as the view, and big rooms (so I've been told during the sale of our current house).

One final point. I don't know what it's like in Chch but in Wellington you are going to find it VERY hard to get a rental for less than 6 months. You might get a furnished place for that period but expect to pay for it. Most renatls are fixed term for 12 months minimum. The best solution is to rent something for at least 6 months and either make sure you are allowed to sub-let or agree that you will find the next tennant if you move out early.....or use the extra time to improve the hosue you buy without you being in it.
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Old Nov 17th 2009, 9:47 pm
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Default Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR

Thing is even at just a few% from what they were two years ago would have still made us a good profit so I still reckon its a winner buying.And as you said a bit of DIY in the right places will make you even better placed.

I would say without a doubt DONT sign up for a year anywhere its far to long a commitment,look for and pay for a rental that will only tie you in for a maximum of 6 months then if you like where you find yourself do the long term one then.

DIY stuff is expensive so pack loads of homebase paint!

good luck

george
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Old Nov 17th 2009, 9:52 pm
  #221  
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Default Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR

Originally Posted by whitesand View Post
I'd like to come into this discussion here and say that some appear to be under the illusion that 'had work' got them their house. Well, they may work hard but so do millions of others in the world, and getting a mortgage and buying a housing then reselling it at a huge profit has absolutely nothing to do with hard work. There are many folks who have worked their guts off who never own a house and never will, simply because they can't afford it.

Some have made a fortune on the market as it has been over the past years. However, this won't last and anyone with any sense can see this. Some fortunate enough to have doubled their money, or more, have simply been in the right place at the right time. And, because folks have not joined the property bandwagon does not mean that they have been frivolous with their money or have been out on the town every weekend.

Personally, I can't wait for the property market to topple (as it surely will) and perhaps then sanity as oppossed to greed will once again take over.
Whitesand
I agree that it is not necessarily people's fault for not being able to get on the housing ladder (and in other EU countries renting is much more the norm) BUT in my personal observations over almost half a century lol...like Colandros I have never seen the UK market fall permanently down in any meaningful way....in theory it should, as soon as first-time buyers can no longer get on the ladder but instead what happened in the 1980s and 1990s was that lenders irresponsibly increased their income multipliers, offered 100% mortgages and people got together in groups of 3 or more just to jointly purchase and get a foot on the ladder.
I am not saying this is right or even healthy but I still think the expression 'safe as houses' has some validity. At least the removal of tax relief on mortgage interest has removed some of the distortions from the market.
We all need a roof over our heads and you are right it is just a paper gain really since the bigger/nicer properties also move up by a similar amount.

I think even with sensible lending policies anyone can lose their house because of bad luck..job loss etc etc...so yes I find some of the sentiments expressed here a bit self-congratulatory.

The situation in NZ and USA may be different with wooden houses going down in value although the section's value may increase but UK bricks and mortar seem to go up for a couple of hundred years no problem.

Last edited by luvwelly; Nov 17th 2009 at 9:57 pm.
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Old Nov 17th 2009, 10:31 pm
  #222  
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Default Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR

My logic tells me that because NZ wages are low and currently static , how can prices continue to rise ? Immigrants selling on to new immigrants? It may not be a worry to new arrivals, but will your children and grand children be able to afford a home of their own in New Zealand ?
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Old Nov 17th 2009, 10:44 pm
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Default Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR

Originally Posted by Hokey-pokey View Post
My logic tells me that because NZ wages are low and currently static , how can prices continue to rise ? Immigrants selling on to new immigrants? It may not be a worry to new arrivals, but will your children and grand children be able to afford a home of their own in New Zealand ?
...and the possible removal of tax breaks on houses next year....and increasing unemployment.....t

Those were the same thoughts as BNZ
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Old Nov 18th 2009, 12:10 am
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Default Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR

Originally Posted by Wooly_Cow View Post
One final point. I don't know what it's like in Chch but in Wellington you are going to find it VERY hard to get a rental for less than 6 months. You might get a furnished place for that period but expect to pay for it. Most renatls are fixed term for 12 months minimum. The best solution is to rent something for at least 6 months and either make sure you are allowed to sub-let or agree that you will find the next tennant if you move out early.....or use the extra time to improve the hosue you buy without you being in it.
Completely agree. There is actually one exception in Wellington of course - leases often come up in February so if you look for a place deserted halfway through the year it can be possible to find one. Otherwise, most leases I know of are for a year.
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Old Nov 18th 2009, 1:20 am
  #225  
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Default Re: This wasnt supposed to happen, we are now POOR

NZ Government stats for 2007/08:

Material standard of living

Material standard of living is defined as the capacity to obtain the things that money can buy. Questions on material standard of living asked people how they rated their standard of living, how satisfied they were with their standard of living, and how adequately their income met their everyday needs.

In 2007/08 most people were either satisfied or very satisfied with their material standard of living. Seventy percent of households were satisfied or very satisfied, with 20 percent being very satisfied. Twelve percent were dissatisfied or very dissatisfied, and the remaining 18 percent were
neither satisfied nor dissatisfied.

As well as stating how satisfied they were with their standard of living, households were asked how they rated their current level of material standard of living. The majority of New Zealand households (88 percent) rated their current level as either medium or above (medium, fairly high,
and high). Forty-five percent of all households reported that their income was enough or more than enough to meet their everyday needs for such things as accommodation, food and clothing.

For households with a total income of less than $41,100, 32 percent reported that their income was enough or more than enough to meet their everyday needs. This compares with households with a total income of $98,000 and over, where the proportion was 72 percent.

Housing costs

Housing costs information collected in this survey includes expenditure on rent and mortgages, property rates and building-related insurance. Median weekly expenditure on housing costs rose from $130 in 2006/07 to $156 in 2007/08 (up 20.1 percent), while the average (mean) weekly housing cost expenditure rose 12.8 percent, from $204 in 2006/07 to $230 in 2007/08. The change in housing costs was driven mainly by mortgage interest payments. Average weekly mortgage interest payments were $82 for 2007/08, up $18 (28.8 percent) from 2006/07. This was a statistically significant increase. Property and ground rent also had a significant increase in
average weekly expenditure (up 13.6 percent, from $64 to $73)

Mortgage interest payments made up the highest proportion of total housing costs (35.7 percent), followed by property and ground rent (31.6 percent). The main component of the mortgage interest payments category was interest and principal repayments on primary property, and the main component of the property and ground rent category was rent paid on primary property

Housing costs to income ratios

Ratios of housing costs to household income are often used as measures of housing affordability. Nationally, total housing costs accounted for 16.2 percent of total household regular income, a slight increase from 15.6 percent in 2006/07. There was little difference in the housing costs to
household income ratio regionally, although Canterbury (17.5 percent) and Auckland (17.4 percent) were slightly higher than the remaining regions.

Some households who rent can afford to service a mortgage but may choose not to for reasons that include lifestyle choices. However, on average, those who pay rent tend to have lower incomes than those who own their dwelling. Therefore, the resulting housing costs to income ratio can be higher for rent-paying households. Also, some home owners do not have mortgages owing
for their dwelling, and so their regular housing cost commitments tend to be lower than those who do pay a mortgage.
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