Stormer999

God are oranges that expensive in NZ?

Justcol

Your trying to over simplify the matter.
Everybody knows property when bought correctly is a good investment.
If they choose not to buy thats fine but dont
then complain when those who did make money
and are able to live mortgage / rent free after working hard
to pay it off and reep the rewards of their labour.

TeamEmbo

Personally I've always thought renting was dead money. Seeing what some people are prepared to pay in rent a week it doesn't seem too far off what we pay for a hefty mortgage.

And at the end of the day I'm not lining someone else's pocket for them to get rich whilst I still have nothing to show for it.

I'd rather juggle like mad and be in my own home which I'm free to hang as many pictures as I damn well please in, decorate how I like, keep as many pets as I like and know that I will be the one benefitting when the repayment morgage is paid off - not some landlord, and any increase in house value will be mine to benefit from and an investment for my future.

Genesis

Me too. i have never rented..ever. Apart from bedsits when I was 18-20. However I can see the benfits of renting..its just not for me. I like doing 'my thang' in my place..fxxk the landlord.

kiwi_child

If you can't get a mortgage or afford the repayments and still have some quality of life, then renting is NOT throwing money down the drain!! That's really an insult to those who have no choice but to rent. Renting is providing yourself and/or those you love and care for with a roof over the head. A safe, secure envirioment in which to live (hopefully). So on that score it's a VERY loving and sensible thing to do. Only trouble is when rents take up too much a slice of the income pie. Govts should intervene and greedy landlords should be held accountable.

John Howard as PM in OZ let the market 'sort it out'. All that did was squeeze an already existing underclass out on the streets and into makeshift temp accommodation. This extended to include those who had jobs and mortgages but who could no longer meet mortgage repayments, but could pay higher rentals.


NZ and OZ govts need to take greater reponsibility to those who suffer in their little 'economic paradises' by creating greater levels of social housing therby reducing waiting lists, and enforcing less discriminatory policies.

I'm curious as to what you mean by rent subsidies? The only cheap rent in NZ I know of is housing NZ. I can, as an example, still rent a unit or house even, in many parts of Melbourne for less than the equivalent in many NZ locations, and there's no govt subsidy here. If you mean reant assistance/accommodation supplement, that payment has been around for well over 30 yrs (an indicator that those on benefits or low incomes have for decades needed some genuine assistance to help them), or would you suggest they should live on foodbanks and their children go without shoes?

BEVS

I believe this to still be so.

FWIW , I grew up from the age of 8 - 18 in a rented council house in the UK. Without that , my family would have been in dire straits at the time . Prior to that , my family actually 'squatted' in a two room downstairs flat with an outside loo as there was no place to go.

Social housing is necessary and I would never knock those that rent. We have good Kiwi friends who now have 3 kids and still rent.

For me though and that is perhaps because of what my family went through and for my husband who grew up on a rough council estate also, we are grateful to have been able to buy our own properties in our lives .

We worked hard and long hours for this. There again my parents and Mr BEVS parents also worked long and hard hours. They just couldn't manage to get enough together to buy a house at that time.

kiwi_child

A great balanced post Bevs. I'd never knock anyone for owning a house: it's something everyone I guess would like to aspire to, but as you put so well, both you and hubby's parents though hard workers never realised that status. And for them and all that follow, and who follow us, let's hope affordable, safe, housing (state or private) continues to be available for all who need it.

Kija

kiwi child, I didn't mean it in an insulting way and I apologise if it was taken that way. What I should have added, is that in our case, renting would be money down the drain because as I have been learning on this thread is that it's better to buy outright (if you can) rather than rent or pay mortgage. I'm not familiar with the whole mortgage system and people were kindly explaining its pros and cons to me. About rent being subsidised, this is what I was told.

OH and I have been debating whether it's better to sell up here and use the money to buy or rent there knowing that if we fail or don't get to go there, the way the real estate market works here, we wouldn't be able to get back on the property ladder here in Egypt. I would prefer to eventually buy, he wants to rent.

Once again apologies, I never meant it in a bad way.

Transient

I wasn't oversimplifying anything. I was responding to your statement that you have a right to abuse people who rent and "moan about house prices". You said nothing about them criticising house owners for their good fortune in cashing in on a generational credit-fuelled property boom.

Enjoy your windfall, but don't kid yourself that the rise in house prices and your luck in being in a position to benefit from them has anything to do with your hard work. It takes just as much work to pay a pound in rent or put a pound in your savings account as it does to pay a pound on a mortgage. Owning a house isn't a moral victory.

Stormer999

Good fortune, windfall, luck? how about 3 years of me and wife working all day on earning money and working all night with only 4 hrs sleep to renovate a Victorian terraced house with her also studying for her PhD 7 days a week none stop so that we never again had to pay for a landlords luxuries...that is a moral victory!

whitesand

It's not right to think that renting is wasting money. It's more complicated than that. It depends on circumstances. Also, that comment sounds very much like an estate agent's lament - as they make more on selling than they do on renting.

If folks are only intending to rent for a short time then it makes sense. Not everyone makes a fortune buying and selling property and many make a loss, especially buy-to-let landlords.

Not all state housing is bad. Some are in good areas and many respectable folks live in state accommodation in the UK. Many in Europe simply rent and have more available cash to invest or spend. In fact, the UK, Oz and NZ would be the places which appear to have the 'must get on the property ladder' greatest obsesson.

Transient

I didn't say no-one who has made money on property has put in any hard-work, but no-one's individual effort created the property boom. Renovation may well see a profit, but the major source of property development profits before 2007 was not from added value kitchen units, fresh paint and sanding the floorboards -- it was from the market being pumped by credit. The fact is that I've known plenty of people who have renovated houses but didn't happen to do so while property boomed and made nothing or even lost money overall. They didn't put in any less "hard-work" than someone doing exactly the same when it did.

The luck is in having the resources to enter the market at the right time and the ability to actually exit at the right time. I don't have any issue with people who have met with that good fortune but I do have a significant issue with considering that those who's lives haven't synchronised with the property cycle have no right to an opinion about house prices. Additionally, it's particularly depressing to read that sort of opinion when we're still dealing with the fallout from the credit bubble that helped push prices high.

That anyone even raises an eyebrow at the opinion that houses are expensive in New Zealand would surprise me when even a glance at the income statistics would explain where the opinion comes from. That someone would think they have a right to jump down the throat of anyone expressing that opinion... well, I'm totally gob-smacked.

kiwi_child

No offence taken Kija. If you can buy a property outright and have no mortgage, then that is the best option (provided you have researched and lived in the area for a little while first maybe, so as to be sure it is where you want to live).

My concern is really for those who struggle to afford the rent, let alone a mortgage. The right wingers tend to slate them all as 'losers' without so much of a breath of understanding about the complexities of factors such as structural oppression.

I think though that financially secure migrants who can purchase a property outright would be wise to be discreet about the fact. Locals anywhere can feel put out by what they perceive as rich foreigners coming in and paying top dollar for homes, which helps push up the prices and lock locals without substantial savings, equity etc, and on modest to average incomes, out of the property market.

Hokey-pokey

The Force is strong with you, Jedi Princess.

kiwi_child

And with you, sweet-toothed one.