Catchafire

We had this vote and no vote discussion before. Voting is one of the fundamental rights we have and that we really have a responsibility to excerise that right. Today, right now, there are people being killed in places like Syria because they are demanding the right to vote.

I think the logic behind "I am not going to vote, because that will make the politicians sit up and take notice" is flawed in the extreme. All you are doing is handing more influence to those who do bother to vote, ie National/Labour party faithful.

Having said that, I do dispair at the quality of the political parties here. But I will still vote and I like the system of MMP. Greens are going to get my party vote this time round.

New Zealand is uniquely placed to potentially be a world leader in many areas. Environmental and social reform in particular. I just wish someone would step up to the plate and take this country forward.

Genesis

You indeed have a very good point and are right. BUT it does not alter the fact that way too many politicians are not doing the right thing by those who put them in power. After all the expenses scandals I guess for me it was the straw that broke the camel's back. I also agree with the sentiment by voting for them you are encouraging them. When was the last time we saw a really, really good party or politician who did the right thing by the people?

Much of my feelings are based on my frame of reference. As plod I did the right thing for the public. I was honest and held strong to the principle that a copper should be accountable, honest and open. Alas I was hated by most of my colleagues in one police station because I would not tow the party line..which was basically make shit up as you go along. I was but a lowly copper with a not very important job but I did what was expected of me and paid a price for it.

My point is why oh why cannot the law makers of this land and others do as we wish? The smacking referendum..not acted upon is just one example, our expectation that they are 100% honest in what they say, do and spend. How many of them screwed their expenses?

If I can do it (even when it is extraordinairly uncomfortable and ultimately lead to my resignation and psychological problems for me) why cannot they be good public servants? They ALWAYS seem to have another agenda like most of the bastards from that police station I had the displeasure to work with.

whitesand

Folks in Syria are not marching for the right to vote, they are wanting a change of Government!

whitesand

Good points made Genesis. The expenses scandal in the UK made most folks sick to the teeth with politicians. And, it is still going on - the bastards are still milking the system over there for all it's worth!

Catchafire

I agree with you Genesis, those who we elect to represent us, seldom live up to the high expectations that such position should hold.

Our present and previous PM's are prime examples.

whitesand

Environmental issues is way down the list of priorities in my opinion. I just hope those silly Greenies don't have any more influence than they have already. They have been rumbled in Europe when they did get elected as folks saw just how naive their policies were. What we need is more jobs, affordable housing, cheaper food prices, for a start. And, that doesn't come with money carelessly spent on environmental issues.

Genesis

My manifesto would be increase tax for the wealthy..only by 3-4%, introduce capital gains tax, like yesterday, and ensure those that needed a leg up got it and those bludging bastards who make the DPB (et al) an active lifestyle choice would cease to get it. I would also make motor insurance mandatory, a minimum 1 year ban for drink driving, get rid of GST on fruit and veg and stick the tax lost there on things of a luxurious nature like TVs, audio equipment, new cars, beer, wine and spirits or jewellery. I would ban ALL alco advertising..all of it, again yesterday and I would address the burning issues of child brutality and domestic violence. I would also have an enquiry into our mad suicide rates. They have royal enquiries when 29 people die (quite rightly) why not when about 500 odd die every year????

Charismatic

Yeah...like they destroyed the German economy from '98-'05 while in coalition or Finland from '95-'02.

I just think we should try a new direction even if just for one term, rather than perpetually retrying things we know don’t work. Being Green and being industrious can go hand-in-hand.

Kind of like that old argument about “trickle down”, by making the rich richer the normal people would also be made richer. Of course in the real world different countries tried lots of different approaches which means we can compare. When we compare “trickle down” is not supported by the real world data, the more egalitarian a society is the richer everyone gets.

So I think we should try that maybe for a while? Call me mental if you want but I’d prefer to live in a more socialistical country with less poverty and most people would earn more money.

Am I silly or should we give it a try?

luvwelly

In NZ especially the expense scandal was blown out of all proportion. In UK it was about tacitly using expenses rather than openly put their salaries up (some took it too far).
This is hardly corruption at all compared to the USA where lobbying by corporates/religious groups determines all in all sectors.

You improve a system by partaking in it.
My FIL in UK never votes, always claimed not worth it as in a no hope seat for his supposed political affiliation. I have however never known a man who enjoys talking politics so much and so constantly, which generally involves slagging off whoever is in charge regardless. He doesn't read the DM but that to me is to suffer from Daily Mail negativity syndrome which is not good for anyone's mental health
NZ is not all that bad politically...get that 'bunch of criminals' ACT out though and it will be a whole lot better.

luvwelly

So you are basically a Labour supporter. But how does being pro-smacking fit with 'the burning issues of child brutality'. A bit contradictory.
You may know where to draw the line in child discipline, alas many don't, so it is better to discourage across the board. Sweden first did this in the 1970s.

lardyl

I think you can be pro- child welfare and still allow parents to discipline their children using reasonable force. Whether or not that can work in NZ without very strict boundaries on what reasonable is and some education to follow that up is another matter, which reading between the lines (and I could be wrong there) is I reckon what Genesis is getting at.

Anyway we all have a responsibility to vote, if it's for our party/MP of choice of against the ones we want out. Our ancestors fought for one man/woman one vote and we should continue to turn out and support that. Certainly if we want any credibility later on when whoever is in power stuffs up and we want to take them to task.

lardyl

don't agree, this country's wealth and income is based upon using the natural resources around us effectively and preserving our local environment. This has to be placed ahead of short term economic gain or NZ will lose the point of difference and our ability to generate wealth. We need to develop the means of adding value to the comodities we harvest, farm and gather and come up with high tech and inventive solutions to problems associated with environmental issues. That type of knowledge-based economy will generate the wealth we need to invest in our future - those areas you rightly highlight.

Genesis

Yes I am and as for the smacking it is an issue I have trouble with. Part of me does agree with a smack on the bottom part of me does not. I guess we all know the right answer but i often find myself saying well it did me not harm..and I was smacked loads!!

whitesand

Lardyl, voting doesn't really change the status quo. It's a democratic concept which doesn't seem to work the higher up the democrtic scale you go. For example, look at Blair who used the Labour Party to spin and weave his way into acquiring a fortune in his wheeling and dealing now.

You need a sea-change in the mind set of those who crave political power. and that's going to be near impossible to achieve. At the end of the day, those of all parties sit comfortable together when it suits them, and it's only external pressure which makes them change. It wasn't voting which created the Arab Spring. How that eventually spins out will also be determined by the leaders they get.

whitesand

Think it was luvwellyl who posed these question!