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Vaccine - NZ strategy?

Vaccine - NZ strategy?

Old Nov 18th 2020, 12:18 pm
  #16  
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Default Re: Vaccine - NZ strategy?

I agree that you cannot physically constrain someone then forcibly administer a vaccine without their consent.
That way lies a whole world of hurt if such a principle was established.

I also agree that passive enforcement seems very reasonable.
Don't get vaccinated?
Don't get to go in bars, theatres, restaurants or anywhere else where there are crowds.
Don't get to fly.
Of course, where to draw the line is as usual a very difficult one.
Do you ban people from busses and trains if they are not vaccinated?
How do you enforce this?
Venues with an entry point (tickets or just a doorway) are relatively easy to enforce.
More open things, especially trains with multiple doors and un-staffed stations, are virtually impossible to police as they stand. You would have to go back to enclosed platforms, ticket barriers and ticket inspectors.
Staff on all busses checking and refusing passengers. A lot more staff required, slower access, higher cost.

There is also the personal privacy issue.
If everyone has to carry an up to date vaccine certificate to be served/allowed entry this does move more towards a police state.
However personal freedom should not include the freedom to infect innocent passers by.
In the same way as free speech doesn't allow you to libel and slander and incite terrorism with no penalty.

Complicated, isn't it?
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Old Nov 18th 2020, 1:33 pm
  #17  
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Default Re: Vaccine - NZ strategy?

The level of effectiveness of the early vaccines is being reported as really good being circa 95% even in the over 65 age group.
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Old Nov 18th 2020, 5:00 pm
  #18  
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Default Re: Vaccine - NZ strategy?

Pfeiffer come out and say 90% last week, their competitor this week says theirs is 95% (and doesn't have to be kept at -80°C) and now Pfeiffer say oh the latest figures are also 95% - funny that.
Remember it wont just be people who choose to have the vaccination and those who refuse, there will be a fair amount of medically unable to comply so there will be 3 groups of people. Would an exemption note be ok for that person to fly or do they get banned with the refusers?
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Old Nov 18th 2020, 7:07 pm
  #19  
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Default Re: Vaccine - NZ strategy?

Pfizer (Germany) initially reported "more than 90%" and clarified with more data that it was 95%. That vaccine requires extreme refrigeration. The​​​​ Moderna (US) one was reported to be 95% effective and requires less extreme refrigeration but will be delivered later.

What has accelerated development is having a second wave. They needed to wait for their control groups to catch the virus which has now happened so data is coming thick and fast.

I was surprised how cheaply they are marketed, under $40 USD per person.

Last edited by Charismatic; Nov 18th 2020 at 7:09 pm.
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Old Nov 19th 2020, 10:02 am
  #20  
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Default Re: Vaccine - NZ strategy?

Originally Posted by Charismatic View Post
Pfizer (Germany) initially reported "more than 90%" and clarified with more data that it was 95%. That vaccine requires extreme refrigeration. The​​​​ Moderna (US) one was reported to be 95% effective and requires less extreme refrigeration but will be delivered later.

What has accelerated development is having a second wave. They needed to wait for their control groups to catch the virus which has now happened so data is coming thick and fast.

I was surprised how cheaply they are marketed, under $40 USD per person.
Yeah, Pfizer is also US company, though their vaccine is developed with a smaller German Company

Cost wise though, $40 a person will soon tot up for them! Whomever ends up supplying these will get loads of advertisement, kudos and goodwill and make it back in bucket loads.

NZ have reputably purchased a large amount of the Pfizer vaccine, none of the Moderna (yet) and larger amount of a J&J vaccine who have yet to announce 3rd trial results.
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Old Nov 19th 2020, 12:55 pm
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Default Re: Vaccine - NZ strategy?

The J&J vaccine is a traditional heat-stable and a one-shot type deal but won't be delivered until Q3, 2021. It's probably a good idea to mitigate risk by signing multiple deals, certainly New Zealand will have to be prepared to not just do an initial surge so borders can reopen, but continuously vaccinate, in order to keep their rates high enough to stop the virus from spreading.

At $40 I'd pay myself.
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Old Nov 19th 2020, 4:42 pm
  #22  
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Default Re: Vaccine - NZ strategy?

Given the future wide choice of vaccines, and the different designs, I wonder how soon they will be able to test the effect of receiving a different vaccine from your initial one?
Could you have an RNA one then a traditional one as a booster?
Or are you tied to the first vaccine that you are given?
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Old Nov 19th 2020, 10:09 pm
  #23  
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Default Re: Vaccine - NZ strategy?

Originally Posted by LittleGreyCat View Post
Could you have an RNA one then a traditional one as a booster?
No reason I can see why not, it's the antigen that you develop antibodies to and almost all viruses are RNA based so...
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Old Nov 21st 2020, 9:17 pm
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Default Re: Vaccine - NZ strategy?

Do they have a strategy ? As far as I can see the whole world is pretending that they know what is happening but we know Diddley-squat !
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Old Nov 22nd 2020, 7:13 pm
  #25  
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Default Re: Vaccine - NZ strategy?

Looks like the US plans to begin vaccinating on the 11th or 12th of December if the vaccine is approved according to the BBC.

Also they have approved the monoclonal antibody treatment.

Last edited by Charismatic; Nov 22nd 2020 at 7:15 pm.
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Old Nov 23rd 2020, 7:41 am
  #26  
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Default Re: Vaccine - NZ strategy?

And the full Oxford Univeristy/AstraZeneca results are in. 70% protection with one shot and 90% with two shots. Just needs to be submitted and reviewed.

They have pre-produced four million doses ready for delivery if it gets signed off by regulators.
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Old Nov 23rd 2020, 7:47 am
  #27  
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Default Re: Vaccine - NZ strategy?

And the full Oxford Univeristy/AstraZeneca results are in. 70% protection with one shot and 90% with two shots. Just needs to be submitted and reviewed. They have already pre-produced four million doses ready for delivery if it gets signed off by regulators.

That one just requires normal refrigeration so is important for countries which can't afford these extreme cold chain solutions.
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Old Nov 25th 2020, 6:42 am
  #28  
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Default Re: Vaccine - NZ strategy?

I see Qantas announced yesterday that having a vaccination will be required to fly internationally at some point in the future.

Hardily surprising, can’t see the furore from some. Other airlines are bound to follow.
Ought to be internal too.
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Old Nov 26th 2020, 7:14 pm
  #29  
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Default Re: Vaccine - NZ strategy?

RNZ published a guide to what is currently known about the Covid-19 vaccine rollout.


I was reading an interesting study of contact tracing data the other day (based on 85k cases and 500k contacts) that has just been published on transmission:
71% of people who contracted the disease did not pass it on at all but of the remainder 8% where responsible for 60% of the total cases where it was contracted onwards. So a minority of people, likely not taking appropriate precautions, are responsible for most transmission.

It also pointed to interesting information on settings:
- If you sat next to someone in a household setting that has Covid-19 there would only be a 1 in 10 chance of contracting the disease.
- If you sat next to someone in a community setting you would only have a 1 in 40 chance of getting it from them.
- If you where travelling (train, aircraft, bus etc.) with someone and you where 3 rows away from them for 6 hours you would have a 79% chance of catching it from them and that's if wearing masks is mandatory!
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Old Today, 3:54 pm
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Default Re: Vaccine - NZ strategy?

Moderna hands in its homework to EU and US regulators, indicates final results over 94% effective.
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