Theretohere

Hi, this is turning into a very interesting discussion, if heated one as it is obviously very emotive for parents. Interesting you mention teacher training, (are you a teacher?). I was speaking to the deputy head of a nearby primary 2 or 3 years ago when I was trying to understand why I was having the experience I was with NZ primary education. He had taught in Northern Ireland and said he also would love to see the different subjects taught in NZ primary schools, and their school had broken away and was doing a special Friday where teachers could teach other subjects. He said the problem was teachers were not trained to deliver these subjects - they are in the curriculum if you read it (same subjects in science as UK) but the teachers I encountered all but one didn't feel confident to deliver science, so basically didn't and the head of his school said - and I quote 'I would be very surprised if you find science in a NZ primary school.' He said there is only one teacher training institution in NZ, a private one in Christchurch, that teaches teachers to deliver a range of subjects. He said when they get an application from one of their newly trained teachers they snap them up, and give priority to all other teachers - this must show that teacher training elsewhere is missing abit..
I have been a careers adviser in some of the worst deprived areas of Bristol and can say that so many of the young people I saw were failing, ie wouldn't get their GCSEs, didn't have basic skills, etc, so I am sure you are right - by working at a much slower pace, NZ achieves the basics in the end. It's just if you yourself, as I did, had a kind of academic education here in the UK, it does seem worlds apart. The person who said we choose a kiwi life and kiwi education is right, but then again - kiwi educated child who aspires for top rated universities may well head off abroad at 18 and you'll be left behind..
At the end of the day, I would love to do a comparative education study and ask young people themselves during and at the end of their studies how they rate it in many different areas..I wonder what I would find?!

westie1234

Nice post, hope things get better for your daughter at school.

Spacecake799

Hi, I just wanted to add that certainly in the three schools my kids attended on the North Shore that the problem I found with the education was they used mostly Independent learning. That's great if your motivated from a very young age to look things up for yourself and to keep that motivation going but how many kids are. My son in yr 6 needed help with his maths and was told by the year head to look in a book to see how to do it! Sorry but that was never going to work for my boys who slipped further and further down the pile. I had to bring them back so our youngest could be taught. However our daughter would come home log on to UK web sites and teach herself. She finished year 13 with merit and a scholarship subject but she was very motivated. She is now at Massey Uni. Don't forget as well the league tables may show NZ very high but there is a massive number of overseas students whos parents pay a lot of money for and who have come from countries where education is a massive part of their lives. Its all relative.
Good luck with your decision.

garethwm

Im not sure there are a massive amount of International Students at secondary school here at all. If youre meaning Asians, then most of them are actually New Zealanders who have learnt through the NZ system. Perhaps their parents chose here because they see merits in the NZ system? On a side note, contrary to what ive read here, Im pretty sure the students, parents and teachers of NZ are as motivated and caring about education as any other country. I also find the suggestion that the only way to learn here is to look up UK websites to be a bit ridiculous. Lol.

MOSO

[QUOTE=Theretohere;11563251] He said there is only one teacher training institution in NZ, a private one in Christchurch, that teaches teachers to deliver a range of subjects. QUOTE]

Umm, no! I studied at a university on the North Island and I can assure you we studied teaching every subject over the years and we had written exams! Christchurch Uni does have a good reputation though.

To suggest that the NZ curriculum is just a guideline and teachers can teach what they like is an insult to NZ teachers - it's simply not true, we do not just turn up and decide what to teach! Most schools work on a 2 year rotation and have to cover all subjects, carry out testing and provide evidence and results to the MOE.

The NZ curriculum is not based on a UK model - why would it be? Why do some people think it should be? Every country has its own curriculum and if you want a UK or "European" curriculum then educate your child in the UK. The UK and Europe are not relevant to a lot of the kids or their families here.

If the OP doesn't like the NZ system and prefers the UK one, then your decision is made. A perfect educational system that suits every child does not exist, but as Garethwm points out so well " the students, parents and teachers of NZ are as motivated and caring about education as any other country"

Spacecake799

Hi thanks for your response. As I said when I answered before I'm not interested in arguing, each to there own these are my opinions based on our six years there. At my kids secondary school there were plenty of overseas students. I also don't believe at any point I said the only way to learn there is using UK websites. My daughter used the website as directed by her teacher, yes it is a UK one and yes that's how she learnt to do things she didn't understand. Once again our experience, it really did happen. Nothing ridiculous to be found. I'm glad your children fit the school system so well!

maquis

I've read this thread with interest as we (me Kiwi, DH Brit) are planning to move back to NZ in the next 12 months, and I worry about taking them out of good schools here in the UK. My eldest is due to start grammar school in September - we had hoped to leave by then so he wouldn't have two school changes, but finances have dictated otherwise

Anyway, I haven't particularly liked the education system here - hearing that my lovely bright boy had cried during his 11+ test broke my heart - but the kids' school is pretty good. My youngest two are very happy there, but my eldest has not been for a while, so whether secondary school will make a difference for him, I don't know. He's my tricky "quirky" one!

After talking to a good friend who is a secondary school teacher in NZ, I think the kids will be okay, and they will have good opportunities at the schools we're in zone for (Wellington). It's so hard though, making these decisions that will have such a huge impact on your kids' lives!! I went to a pretty crap school, so I stress about it probably more than I should.

Theretohere

Hi there, to the people who are moving over to Wellington. I started this thread so just replying to your latest post and some others. I have been back in UK since August with my ten year old, in a few short months he has gone from writing so sketchily, no paras, barely any grammar and a page at most at a huge stretch - to being able to construct paragraphs, write beautifully, he has improved no end in an English primary school and gained award for most improved pupil, he was desperately untaught in NZ. For him, he needed structured learning - the self directed learning model wasn't working for him, I am just so relieved he at last can write fairly fluently. It really was as basic as this for me. I also did find that teachers at his school had a huge amount of freedom to choose what they taught - but I know this wasn't true in all schools as I lived opposite a primary school teacher who taught at a more structured school and they had curriculum planning and a rolling programme. After our short time in UK, I no longer look at UK education through rose coloured spectacles, as I really felt when I was in NZ, there must be so many fun things going on for the kids in English schools apart from maths and literacy, now I find it's SATs dominated, and yes that awful class system and meritocracy still pervades everything. But for me, I just wanted my son to be learning and he has said in NZ - sorry to offend if it does - he worked 'to the lowest level of my ability'. He's glad he can learn now. That's just him and us. It was fun, great socially and probably, and I'm sure this is right - better psychologically for kids - so I although I'd like him to be educated, ie knowledgeable about world, I am still not certain if I want to put him through rigours of UK 'exam factories' (quote newspaper today in UK) which stress kids out, and yes I put him through 11 plus as felt he'd do well, and he hated it, but in the end took it in his stride, but the night before he took it I felt quite repulsed by the whole thing putting kids through that, was mainly doing it as didn't want him to be disadvantaged by being in NZ so wanted to have the option. For the time being, I am just glad he's feeling he's learning, he's not yet at secondary school, hence the post. Also, I'm sure there are great secondary schools in NZ - probably more so in Wellington and larger places perhaps. Sorry late now so this is abit rambling.

Theretohere

Hi Moso, I'm sure you do that as you trained fairly recently, but like all countries, there are probably teachers who trained a long time ago and have not updated...and despite lots of professional development are hard to work with, in other words, not very good teachers. The NZ curriculum is alot more flexible it seems (so I was told) and ERO only checks maths and literacy in NZ schools, so other subjects can lapse quite badly..

maquis

I guess the only way you can get an idea of a school, and whether it is right for your child, is by checking the OFSTED/ERO reports, visiting the school, talking to other parents, talking to the current students, and noting the 'league' tables. We have visited so many secondary schools in the last two years in the run up to our final 'selection' of four, I have had enough! Sometimes, too much choice is a bad thing. Although, it seems in a county with a grammar school system, there isn't a lot of choice if your child isn't particularly academic. Most of our local comprehensives are not very appealing. And to me, neither are some of the 'super-selective' grammars (though for different reasons). However, I didn't go to school in the UK, so 'tis all foreign to me

LoCarb

Primary school science education in New Zealand.
I listened to this program and it's brilliant. Learning by using your hands & brain, not by rote. If this is the difference between the 'Old World' and NZ. Long may it last!

"River Health 101"
Our Changing World | Radio New Zealand National

bourbon-biscuit

No matter the ideal, the reality I have found in all the primary schools I have been involved in, is that science is woefully lacking.

I was thinking about the differences some more this morning and I realised there is a difference between Kiwi and UK education in terms of the role of competition. In most NZ schools there is a huge emphasis on competition and at the end of the year there are cups, prizes, and awards for the 'best' students. Extension in primary will often involve entering competitions. I find this one of the most frustrating elements of NZ education.

maquis

And here I was, bemoaning the fact that the only "competition" here in the UK seems to be inter-school football!

bourbon-biscuit

Competition undermines achievement and, imo, has no useful role to play in education - and I'm not saying that from sour grapes as my kids' bedrooms are littered with awards, medals, and cups.

maquis

I have no idea what value competition plays in education, I just feel a bit sad for my non-sporty kids

However, I do feel that awards are of value.