STEP CHILDREN

Old Aug 16th 2008, 5:25 pm
  #181  
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Default Re: STEP CHILDREN

Well people, I've just booked tickets to NZ for myself and OH to do our 'door-to-door look at me I'm wonderful give me a job thing'!!We arrive 21st Oct and fly back 31st Oct - the shortest visit I've ever done but hey we'll be there.
Gutted that the kids can't come but my daughter told me I had to go.
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Old Aug 16th 2008, 5:36 pm
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Default Re: STEP CHILDREN

Originally Posted by j19fmm
Well people, I've just booked tickets to NZ for myself and OH to do our 'door-to-door look at me I'm wonderful give me a job thing'!!We arrive 21st Oct and fly back 31st Oct - the shortest visit I've ever done but hey we'll be there.
Gutted that the kids can't come but my daughter told me I had to go.
Enjoy your break even though it is without the kids. Just take lots of pics and when you get back you will have loads to tell them. Good luck on the job front. Your lassie sounds like one cool kid to me.

Phyllis
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Old Aug 16th 2008, 6:41 pm
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Default Re: STEP CHILDREN

Originally Posted by clarissageo
From what I can see, one of the strongest arguments you have is that HE wanted to move to NZ, not once, but twice - with you - so he is actually fighting against himself! do you have any of the original applications or research that you did for that time? I'm sure if you can present them in court, the primary fact that the move has to be in the best interests of the children will be demonstrated as he has wanted to do it and obviously thinks it is a good move.
Without trying to be judgmental of the situation, this is a really poor argument. He wanted to move to NZ as a family unit. That's rather different than the current situation where his children would end up at the opposite side of the world from him and presumably have no contact with their father. Given the children's ages, the primary issue here is to what extent, if any, he has been - and wants to be - involved in their lives. Obviously, he hasn't done himself any legal favours by withholding support, but that's not necessarily an indication of an unwillingness to be involved. Situations like this are rarely clear cut, and I can fully understand the reticence of a parent who would be seeing their children move such a long way away.
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Old Aug 16th 2008, 7:52 pm
  #184  
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Default Re: STEP CHILDREN

Originally Posted by Giantaxe
Without trying to be judgmental of the situation, this is a really poor argument. He wanted to move to NZ as a family unit. That's rather different than the current situation where his children would end up at the opposite side of the world from him and presumably have no contact with their father. Given the children's ages, the primary issue here is to what extent, if any, he has been - and wants to be - involved in their lives. Obviously, he hasn't done himself any legal favours by withholding support, but that's not necessarily an indication of an unwillingness to be involved. Situations like this are rarely clear cut, and I can fully understand the reticence of a parent who would be seeing their children move such a long way away.
Hardly without being judgemental.His children most certainly would have contact with him in both countries should he so wish. It's not a desire of mine to severe contact between a father and his children, but a wish to offer a different life to my children, that they also wish to try.
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Old Aug 16th 2008, 7:54 pm
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Default Re: STEP CHILDREN

Originally Posted by weejie
Your lassie sounds like one cool kid to me.

Phyllis
You are soooo right, Phyllis
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Old Aug 16th 2008, 8:21 pm
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Default Re: STEP CHILDREN

Originally Posted by Giantaxe
Without trying to be judgmental of the situation, this is a really poor argument. He wanted to move to NZ as a family unit. That's rather different than the current situation where his children would end up at the opposite side of the world from him and presumably have no contact with their father. Given the children's ages, the primary issue here is to what extent, if any, he has been - and wants to be - involved in their lives. Obviously, he hasn't done himself any legal favours by withholding support, but that's not necessarily an indication of an unwillingness to be involved. Situations like this are rarely clear cut, and I can fully understand the reticence of a parent who would be seeing their children move such a long way away.
No, its not a poor argument its a strong one. When a court makes judgement on this they are not interested in the parents wishes, they are interested in the best interest of the Children. The ex in this circumstance was all up for the children being bought up in NZ when he was involved, but now he's not, all of a sudden its a bad move?? By him now arguing that its not suitable for the children to move would be arguing against what he himself believed in not once but twice, and by him saying he didnt want them go because he would miss them etc would fail anyway because its not about him, its about what is best for the kids.
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Old Aug 16th 2008, 8:23 pm
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Default Re: STEP CHILDREN

Originally Posted by j19fmm
Hardly without being judgemental.
It's not judgmental to suggest that there are two sides to this and that the wishes of the father should be part of the equation - assuming he is involved and wants to continue to be involved in their lives.

Originally Posted by j19fmm
His children most certainly would have contact with him in both countries should he so wish.
At the very least, it will be that much more difficult for him to have contact both logistically and financially. Assuming he wants continuing contact with his children, there really is a big difference. That is why the courts so carefully consider such situations when one parent is unwilling to allow the other to move children overseas.

Originally Posted by j19fmm
It's not a desire of mine to severe contact between a father and his children, but a wish to offer a different life to my children, that they also wish to try.
They are also his children. They are also probably not yet at an age where their views should be paramount. It's too easy for one or both parents to influence younger children to their own point of view. That's why courts consider children's wishes, but don't consider them absolute.
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Old Aug 16th 2008, 8:29 pm
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Default Re: STEP CHILDREN

Originally Posted by clarissageo
No, its not a poor argument its a strong one. When a court makes judgement on this they are not interested in the parents wishes, they are interested in the best interest of the Children. The ex in this circumstance was all up for the children being bought up in NZ when he was involved, but now he's not, all of a sudden its a bad move??
Absolutely, because it makes it much more difficult for him to remain involved in their lives. The best interests of children are frequently not served when one parent disappears from or has minimal contact with their lives.

Originally Posted by clarissageo
By him now arguing that its not suitable for the children to move would be arguing against what he himself believed in not once but twice,
He believed it was in the best interests of the whole family to move to NZ together, a rather different beast than what is currently being proposed.

Originally Posted by clarissageo
and by him saying he didnt want them go because he would miss them etc would fail anyway because its not about him, its about what is best for the kids.
And it's typically best for the kids when both parents remain in their lives. Moving the kids to NZ will make it that much more difficult for that to happen. His "missing them" is indeed not a relevant argument in this.

Last edited by Giantaxe; Aug 16th 2008 at 8:37 pm.
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Old Aug 16th 2008, 8:43 pm
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Default Re: STEP CHILDREN

Originally Posted by Giantaxe
Absolutely, because it makes it much more difficult for him to remain involved in their lives. The best interests of children are frequently not served when one parent disappears from or has minimal contact with their lives.



He believed it was in the best interests of the whole family to move to NZ together, a rather different beast than what is currently being proposed.



And it's typically best for the kids when both parents remain in their lives. Moving the kids to NZ will make it that much more difficult for that to happen. His "missing them" is indeed not a relevant argument in this.
Fair comments......

I wonder if the same rules will apply IF he wins (which I don't think will happen for a minute) and then he suddenly decides he wants to go off to NZ and leave his kids stuck in England? Perhaps J19 can go to court to stop him leaving....... nah
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Old Aug 16th 2008, 9:03 pm
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Default Re: STEP CHILDREN

Originally Posted by Giantaxe
It's not judgmental to suggest that there are two sides to this and that the wishes of the father should be part of the equation - assuming he is involved and wants to continue to be involved in their lives.
At the very least, it will be that much more difficult for him to have contact both logistically and financially. Assuming he wants continuing contact with his children, there really is a big difference. That is why the courts so carefully consider such situations when one parent is unwilling to allow the other to move children overseas.
They are also his children. They are also probably not yet at an age where their views should be paramount. It's too easy for one or both parents to influence younger children to their own point of view. That's why courts consider children's wishes, but don't consider them absolute.

With 16 weeks holiday each year and a very healthy income can't see lack of time or flight money being an arguement. Even if he saved the small amount of maintenance he's supposed to pay the children each month, that would equal 2 flights a year.
What would you consider to be an age where a childs views are paramount?
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Old Aug 16th 2008, 11:48 pm
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Default Re: STEP CHILDREN

Originally Posted by j19fmm
With 16 weeks holiday each year and a very healthy income can't see lack of time or flight money being an arguement. Even if he saved the small amount of maintenance he's supposed to pay the children each month, that would equal 2 flights a year.
What would you consider to be an age where a childs views are paramount?
You indicated in an earlier email that the father saw the children several times a week. That kind of regular involvement clearly couldn't happen if you were in NZ.

I doubt there's any precise age where the child's views become paramount. It really depends on the maturity level of the child and the circumstances of the particular situation. But obviously as they become in range of being adults then their views should be given ever-increasing weight.
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Old Aug 17th 2008, 7:59 am
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Default Re: STEP CHILDREN

Originally Posted by Giantaxe
You indicated in an earlier email that the father saw the children several times a week. That kind of regular involvement clearly couldn't happen if you were in NZ.

I doubt there's any precise age where the child's views become paramount. It really depends on the maturity level of the child and the circumstances of the particular situation. But obviously as they become in range of being adults then their views should be given ever-increasing weight.
Have you considered a scenario where the child/ren don't want to see their father? Where the level of 'care' he offers is not suitable? Where the environment he places them in is inappropriate?
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Old Aug 17th 2008, 4:42 pm
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Default Re: STEP CHILDREN

Originally Posted by j19fmm
Have you considered a scenario where the child/ren don't want to see their father? Where the level of 'care' he offers is not suitable? Where the environment he places them in is inappropriate?
Of course, but such a situation is for a neutral party such as a court to determine. As I mentioned before, children can be unduly influenced by one or both parents in such situations, and it's often very difficult to determine what their true feelings and desires are absent parental pressure.
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Old Aug 17th 2008, 6:31 pm
  #194  
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Default Re: STEP CHILDREN

Look Giant Axe this is not an easy situation for anyone, nor a decision that is taken lightly. None of the things you have said are news to anyone.Nor are they things that haven't been thought about long and hard.
Have you been in this position yourself?
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Old Aug 17th 2008, 11:38 pm
  #195  
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Default Re: STEP CHILDREN

Originally Posted by Giantaxe
Of course, but such a situation is for a neutral party such as a court to determine. As I mentioned before, children can be unduly influenced by one or both parents in such situations, and it's often very difficult to determine what their true feelings and desires are absent parental pressure.
One very personal case involved the wishes of a 6 year old. Courts listened to the 6 year old and granted order in accordance. Hardly old enough to be an adult? or old enough to be taken seriously or know his/her own mind?
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