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Sorry to say, leaving for Canada

Sorry to say, leaving for Canada

Old May 21st 2007, 10:38 am
  #61  
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Default Re: Sorry to say, leaving for Canada

Originally Posted by Poppy2 View Post
As it should be, my goodness we should all be supported in our parenting choices, it's so personal. Well I see you are feeling busy now - I'll give you a few months to reconsider that *no more* policy!! 40-smorty!

Nope... it wont happen!! Would need a bigger house and car too!!....and I only have 2 hands! My friend has just had her 3rd and boy shes got her hands full.... and shes getting no sleep either. I see what shes going through and noooooooooo way!! lol..... I wanna do some other things.... work part-time in the future, do some volunteer work and maybe get to ride my horse more than once a month!! I also want my body back.... or at least some of my old figure back!
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Old May 21st 2007, 10:44 am
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Default Re: Sorry to say, leaving for Canada

OK! OK! OK!............................I'll give you a year! Sheesh!

I have 3 with large gaps, I'm no mother earth let me tell you!! But they just keep getting cuter, we just want to keep going! The world record for sections is an Irish woman who has had 12 , so arent you even a little tempted to give her a run for her money??

Just kidding, you enjoy your lovely babies and get your life back to where you want it to be. Lucky you having a horse, those children are going to love riding! A real plus to NZ!
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Old May 21st 2007, 10:48 am
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Default Re: Sorry to say, leaving for Canada

Originally Posted by Poppy2 View Post
OK! OK! OK!............................I'll give you a year! Sheesh!

I have 3 with large gaps, I'm no mother earth let me tell you!! But they just keep getting cuter, we just want to keep going! The world record for sections is an Irish woman who has had 12 , so arent you even a little tempted to give her a run for her money??

Just kidding, you enjoy your lovely babies and get your life back to where you want it to be. Lucky you having a horse, those children are going to love riding! A real plus to NZ!
......never expected that section to hurt so much..... ouch!! But better than I went through before.... you dont wanna know!! 12 sections!!!!! She must be insane!!

My son is 3 and shows no signs of liking horses....wont even go and see the horse with me to give him a carrot. I'm hoping my little girlie will share my passion for horses and ponies but who knows eh?
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Old May 21st 2007, 10:57 am
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Default Re: Sorry to say, leaving for Canada

Well at 3 we can give him some time yet, my son of 4 would like a Unicorn and he would call him Conor! I am sure they will love horses as they get bigger, and you can enjoy that together. And they can have horse rides at their parties, how cool is that!

Hope you buried that placenta............whenua.
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Old May 21st 2007, 11:04 am
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Default Re: Sorry to say, leaving for Canada

Originally Posted by Poppy2 View Post
Well at 3 we can give him some time yet, my son of 4 would like a Unicorn and he would call him Conor! I am sure they will love horses as they get bigger, and you can enjoy that together. And they can have horse rides at their parties, how cool is that!

Hope you buried that placenta............whenua.
Id like a unicorn too..... or a pegasus would do!! Ive been horse mad since I can remember, but no idea where it came from as family wasn't horsie at all. My son has a cool birthday anyway... November 5th....lucky thing. In about 10 years time they might be big enough to ride my horse lol..... I think they need a pony first.

Nope I didnt... I remember being asked if I wanted it.... probably had a look of disgust on my face. Are you supposed to bury it then?
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Old May 21st 2007, 12:10 pm
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Default Re: Sorry to say, leaving for Canada

Well yes, the Maori word for placenta is the same as land (whenua), and it is buried where the child's iwi come from so that it is linked to the land etc. More and more people across the board ask to take them home because they bury it under a rose plant or something. I took mine home, put it in the freezer, as advised, and when we got it out defrosted it and dug a hole in the garden I had seperation issues!! I took pictures of this lump of red in a hole and I poked around in it with gloves............, I think offering me choice was a mistake!! I should have just come home and given it to the dogs like I first said - waste not want not! It was an odd thing to do, and now I feel it is hard to leave in the garden, which is why people who move within NZ (non-Maori) plant them in pots. Not very British is it really
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Old May 21st 2007, 3:13 pm
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Default Re: Sorry to say, leaving for Canada

Hi Rachel
my husband and I have been reading your threads both here and on the Canada forum with much interest, and it has taken some real soul searching to reply, not wanting to burst your bubble, but we are wondering how much homework you have really done about this move?
Do you have your paper work (ie work permits etc) sorted out before you get here? We have never lived anywhere that is so bureaucratic. Without this paper work you cannot get your SIN number and without that you can do nothing. You will have no credit rating when you get here and will have to retake your drivers licence.
Maximum holidays are 10-15 days a year. You may not think that is a problem but it is. My husband has so little time with the family now, we have just got used to doing things without him.
We have lived in Halifax, Nova Scotia, for 18 months. I'm a UK registered nurse, my husband is a university professor. We have 3 children, 2 at university here, one just finishing school. Although my husband's salary almost doubled when we moved here, the cost of living is higher than we could ever imagine and we are just breaking even. Unless I retrain and sit the exam I can't work as a nurse here. The same reasons you give for leaving NZ are exactly the same as ours are for now wanting to leave NS!
Canada is a huge country and each province is governed differently. Taxation in NS is one of the highest in the country, especially GST. My husband is paying 42% personal income tax. I don't know where you have got the information from about the shopping but there are only 3 main shopping centres here, all clones of each other. Items get bought in by container and when they have gone that's it until the following year. In winter especially there is a shortage of fresh fruit and vegetables. You will certainly not get more choice of goods living here. We don't get as much snow as other parts of the country so few winter sports. Mostly rain and fog. I see you mention about the damp - a major problem here all year round. It is like living in some remote island off Scotland or Ireland! Summer is short, very humid, lots of black fly.
You need to live at least 90 mins outside Halifax before you can find cheap housing, and again taxes are high on housing in HRM (Halifax regional municipality). Many of these properties are cheap because no-one wants to live there, you have no infrastructure, septic tanks and wells for water.
The health system here has shocked us, it is worse than the NHS. Unless you pay expensive insurance every month, you will find many things are not covered by your medical plan. Ours wont cover the cost of a crown, even though I broke my tooth and have no other option. The cost is going to be about 1000 GBP. Waiting times for some proceedures is 180 days as opposed to 2 weeks in Toronto.
Flights back to UK might be shorter, 6 hours, but not cheap. The lowest fare I have got out of season is the equivalent of 400 GBP. There is no competition as Air Canada are the only airline flying from here during the winter, with a few low cost airlines operating only from May-September.
It is more expensive to travel to other parts of Canada from here. Our eldest just attended a conference in Ottawa, a 2 hour flight away, and it cost her almost as much as it did for me to fly to UK recently.
There is one IMAX cinema in the whole of NS. Our local cinema has just closed down.
There are just a couple of small museums in downtown Halifax, and the art gallery. The theatre is not open all year and much of down town closes when the cruise ships are gone (October-May)
It is a university town but again much stops when the students go (April-September).
It is not a friendly place, many of the locals resent people coming from "away" as they say, mainly because jobs are so short here and competion is fierce. Many 25- 45 year olds have to move to places like Alberta to get employment. My daughter graduates this week, and not one of her friends have been able to find employment in NS.
It is such a big move to make, and you are so obviously unhappy where you are - I just hope this move is the right one for you. We came twice to have a look around before we moved and thought we had really done our homework. The reality when we finally got here was a shock, and I have never been so unhappy in my life. Thankfully now our youngest is finishing school we can start to look for a way out. We have lived in 8 countries over the years, some where they didn't speak English, but I have to say this has been the hardest of them all.
If you want to pm me, or if you think we can help in any way, please get in touch. I would hate to think anyone has to go through what we have over the last few years.
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Old May 21st 2007, 6:29 pm
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Default Re: Sorry to say, leaving for Canada

Wow. Not going to even attempt to answer each detail, it is the middle of the night and I am up to feed a baby.

Thank you for your concern - again, not wishing to dismiss any point you have made, I think this speaks volumes about your experience, much like my whole thread here speaks about mine, but doenst reflect other's experiences. I hasten to add, we arent *that unhappy* about here, we have been here 4 years and we dont go round moaning to anyone that will give us the time of day, I dont want to sound as if that is the case!

And I have to ask - have you been to NZ to live? I talk about the frivolous things such as shops and cinemas - because we have NONE to speak of where I live and travelling to them doesnt even offer any choice. I have 3 children under 10..............the mere fact that you have several ToysRus will be wonderful, let alone Baby Gap, PLeasemum and whoever else I ahve found out about. NS compares VERY favourably to Here - cant even express that in words!

I think the thing maybe people might be missing from my words on this thread is that we are not looking to live anywhere for long, 3-5 years is our maximum. This next move isnt supposed to answer all our prayers, it isnt going to be a haven - its going to be real life lived elsewhere.

As for paperwork - all in hand thanks. Job offer since Jan. Please dont underestimate my ability to google the arse of a place, or get info from those on the ground. I have been in phone contact with at least 4 people who are expats because they work where we both will be. 2 of them have been to NZ and worked.............they are most happy in their move!!

My comments about damp are very difficult to explain if you havent lived here. I wont be able to adequately convey this to you as you are so down on Hlaifax and your life there. But this is seen by NZers as a tropical island of some sort, though the temps in the daytime are great, it is like living in cornwall at best. And so, they dont heat houses to combat the damp, most houses are maintainted with dehumidifiers, woodburners and heating methods that we had in the 60's that increase the houses damp issue. Put it like this, you can buy *Damp rid* in economy tubs here and you need it. Even when growing up on the side of a hill in a farm without central heating, we never had clothes go mouldy with black mould or damp pervade all our belongings. My mother came here to stay, she still lives in said farm, and she thinks we live like pigs here - her words, not necessarily mine.

Also, you have been there 18 months and it maybe just not for you, just as here has turned out, after 4 years to not be for us. Could we carry on living here and make a good job, YES. We could move to Auckland or Wellington, which was the original plan, but the job offer came up and we want to have another adventure. Should we stay here and not go because a few people didnt like where we intend going? Would someone, such as myself, put me off coming here - no, not at all. And I far from regret coming here. The major issue for us is the work atmosphere, the racism (which you cannot begin to appreciate) and the lack of people to give equality of benefits to those who work so damned hard. I have looked into things such as maternity leave, annual leave and all the issues that have bugged me here, and they either match us here or are utter bonuses.

There is no free dental anything here. You pay to see your GP and children over the age of 6 have to start paying (well obviously their parents, not them). The cultural acceptance of hitting children here, and with instruments deemed to be *of reasonable force* is a fantastic example of the way people here live in another time zone culturally. The gang activity here is astonishing....................you may laugh, as did I when I arrived. But the gangs are just full of young to middle aged me who are so bored they like to return to tribalism because they have nothign else to do, except start smoking pot from when they get up to when they go to bed. Poverty is the word. And people who work as we do here keep the country running - it feels like 1 in 2 hospital employees have a UK or SA accent. Yet we are constantly targetted as taking jobs and bringing our *baggage* of families with us - thanks Tariana! And I have cared for that woman's family....:curse:

I can assure you that we go with open eyes and there will be never enough we can prepare ourselves for. And the things that get to you, will not get to us, but new things will etc. Also we have different age children. My aim is to get there and have another child (at least) and carry on turning into a combination of Martha Stewart, Nigella Lawson and Jo Brand.

All I can return to is, there is (believe me or not) more shops there and more entertainment, more benefits for working people, far less of a race issue and the seasons where they should be. I am a home body, a home maker, a mother to small children, and going to pick our own pumpkins and then carve Jack-o-lanterns, go trick or treating, have some festive feel before christmas - that is worth the airfare to me right there. Here, the shop keepers get a sign writer to come and paint Seasons Greetings with some holly on the window of the shop - and that could stay there til feb. Dont even start me on that!!!

I had to jump through big flaming hoops to get to work here - had to actually do 2 huge study packages, pay for them myself, do 8 essays for both and sit exams...................all to work in a unit that had midwives who didnt even do delivery suite because they were kiwi and hadnt stepped foot in the door since the 70's - but get paid the same as me. So I could be IT in an emergency, as the Dr on duty was a retired GP of fresh out of college and had a book to consult as we waited for a Consultant to come in from home - if there was one and I didnt need to transfer the patient out by air...........So I get what you are saying about nursing, I too need to get my qualification up and running, sit the exam and call myself a nurse. Working in a unit with 10 consultants, Registrars, onsite NNU and so much that I miss from working in the back of beyond.

Am I prepared..............er, I think so. It rather depends what your expectations were/are. You went over to Halifax twice, and moving with older children, it has to be a very well thought out plan before you go. I am ashamed to admit, we are a lot more loose in all that we do, because we expect to somewhat get let down - we were in the UK, we have been (eventually here) and if we are so let down again then we will move elsewhere in the fullness of time. I learnt here that nothing should be judged for at least 2 years, because no-one to my mind can feel intergrated in that time and that makes a huge difference.

People are different essentially and I am not concerned by any of the things you are telling me because my frame of reference is living in a backwater in the backwater of NZ. NS has beaches, wildlife for the kids to see, places to go and much more for children than here...........they have a play area and one museum that we have been to too much! And I am not someone to care too much about what other people's experiences are, because my level of *OK* isnt the same as someone else's - we are super family orientated, we got a life when we had kids and we are taking our tribe on another adventure, which is exactly how we talk about ourselves. We like quiet and rural with the option of big shops and entertainment - by comparison Halifax is Vegas to here. It has a bigger population than the Capital of NZ - and the fact that it has 1 IMAX is a miracle to my 2 boys.

Off to bed now. Thanks for the genuine advice, but I read it all with a tinge of *you dont know here at all to say what you do and you clearly arent happy where you are*. Valid points every one of them, but not something that will stop us moving there and not one point that has me concerned or I thought *wow I wasnot prepared for that*. Different people will find different things deal breakers. I hope you arent offended by my words here!

Rachel x
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Old May 21st 2007, 8:26 pm
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Default Re: Sorry to say, leaving for Canada

Good luck with your move poppy.

I feel like we must be living in different countries (and my dp is FROM Cornwall! um, the weather couldn't be more different! ). I read your experiences and the differ so, so much to our own! I find myself feeling so sorry for you, and really hoping it works out for you, but I also find myself thinking 'huh?'.

I guess that's why we're all different!!
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Old May 21st 2007, 9:09 pm
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Default Re: Sorry to say, leaving for Canada

Good Luck with your move Rachel, I for one can fully understand all of where you are coming from.
Yes I live in NZ too.
Moving to Oz tho' shortly.
Same can be said about differences throughout a country though cant they?
In Uk I hardly saw crime, drugs, burglaries etc. But I know they exist, never was a victim to any of them (thankfully) but doesn't mean to say I shrug my shoulders when I heard about them and wonder 'huh'?
Best wishes
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Old May 22nd 2007, 12:00 am
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Default Re: Sorry to say, leaving for Canada

Well soulflour, we are different. But it would appear that if I say black, you say white.........and quite honestly all your points have been condescending one way or another. I have never said anyone was misguided being here, I have even said there is lots we have loved and will miss. I have also said how proud I am that we made the move and did such a great job for 4 years, removating a house, enjoying the coutryside, working hard in a small midwifery unit. It therefore really galls me, as I suspect it is intended to, that you feel able to say you feel sorry for me. Its patronising to say the least, and says volumes about you as an individual and very little about this thread.

Returning to a point made by Halifax harpie - in thinking about what you said about the cost of flights, they are infinitely cheaper for us and family, than flights to NZ. And actually we have found flights for between 100-200 GBP return, on the odd looksee on Lastminute or Expedia - no doubt they leave at 2am on a thursday, but even at 400 it beats a 25-30 hour trip at a cost of 800-1200 GBP.

Further to that, my much loved MIL came here 3 years ago, we had a wonderful time, she went back and collapsed at Heathrow with a DVT and a Pumlonary Embolism that she could have died from. She didnt thank goodness, but she was in a critical condition for 2 weeks. That incident rattled us, but we knew that this might happen were we to move so far away.

On a very personal and painful note, my father died suddenly 4 weeks ago and in the midst of our plans, our house sale, our excitement - my world has stopped. We were planning to pay for him to come and visit us this Autumn in Halifax because he had never been able to visit us here. We had been talking about it and he was so longing to meet his new grandchild ............so you see my feelings about leaving arent simply about fitted shoes or heating as some would love to patronise me about. It is about many very serious reasons, one of which is being that bit closer to family.

My father was the adventurous spirit, he lived in countries such as Germany in the 60's, many African nations in the 70's and remote New Guinea in the 80's. He had been to Peru, Hawaii, America and many other places - he was so proud of us and what we are doing for our children, making them citizens of the world and taking with us small bits, the great bits of everywhere we have been.

We arent done with adventuring and we arent wanting perfection, and we arent incapable of coping with adversity - because beleive me we have. This is why we are so proud and keep on, keeping on - with enthusiasm and learning new stuff about our lives and who we are, along the way. NZ is a great place and a great place to start off with, and we may even return. My daughter was born here, how can a peice of me not remain? But it is time to move on, I have explained some of the reasons why and it is not intended to offend those that are here and loving it. Anyone who looks at their life and says I want more, I want to experience more and broaden my horizons - then moves to the other side of the globe.............they dont deserve people to feel sorry for them, they deserve a bloody big pat on the back and *good on yer fella*

Last edited by Poppy2; May 22nd 2007 at 12:03 am.
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Old May 22nd 2007, 12:12 am
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Default Re: Sorry to say, leaving for Canada

Poppy there are always going to be the odd fantasy poster on emigration forums please don't let it get to you x.

After a few drags on the local weed you'd see things the same way too
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Old May 22nd 2007, 12:18 am
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Default Re: Sorry to say, leaving for Canada

............Yep you are so right! And just as soon as the 4 year old has stopped hogging the weed things will be sweet again!
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Old May 22nd 2007, 1:09 am
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Default Re: Sorry to say, leaving for Canada

Poppy,
Has it occurred to you that living in Wanganui (pop ~ 40,000), one hour from PN (University town with most of the amenities that you describe) might just be the cause of your problems.

If you move to Halifax, pop ~360,000, and containing 40% of all Nova Scotians (according to one website I found), then of course it is likely to have more shops and movie theatres etc... it is a bigger town!

Choosing to live in Wanganui means that you are living in a small town, I would imagine that if you had have chosen to live in one of NZ's larger cities then you might have had a different experience.

I can't see how comparing the lifestyle available in a city like Halifax and a town like Wanganui is comparing apples with apples.

Also, reading through the whole thread, I don't think you should be so quick to dismiss the expereinces of another poster, just because he/she doesn't agree with you. It sounds to me that they make many valid points.
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Old May 22nd 2007, 1:44 am
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Default Re: Sorry to say, leaving for Canada

Well thanks for that, I think I certainly did say at some point that we live in a small town and that Halifax therefore had more amenities. I also said that living elsewhere in NZ may have been an option prior to us getting a job offer in Canada (though there really isnt much choice and I am sure those that have agreed with me have found the same issues where they are, housing, politics etc). Interesting you needed to do some research to prove a point. I dont think that I have said anyone's points were not valid because they disagreed with me - that can go both ways, and certainly has.

May I just add, there is nothing wrong with Wanganui, nothing at all. I am not leaving here because of the limited shops, I can go to Palmy or Wellington - where I would still struggle to get fitted shoes for my kids............THAT whole point about amenities is about what I look forward to having again.

We leave because:
Housing, racism, lack of benefits for employed,Politics both with big and little P, wanting to be closer to family and wanting a change, an adventure. Realizing that we are not destined to live in NZ forever.

We have stayed for 4 years because:
We have thoroughly enjoyed the outings to the beach, the mountians, down the Wanganui river, the days away further afield, exploring the countryside, the wildlife, the children going barefoot, having chickens at school, spending more time together as a family, renovating our villa, working hard and putting a lot back into the community working here as a midwife and my hsuband in the hospital in Palmy, having great friends here, being a strong part of the local community. Having our precious daughter here. The list is endless, and at no point do I want to appear to regret a moment, we dont. NZ has been an wonderful experience overall, but not our longterm home.

Some people have taken this whole thread rather personally and I have ended up rather bashed at times. I have to shrug and carry on frankly. This wasnt supposed to be about other people's choices or what I thought about them. Neither was it about what judgements others could make about ours and just as we get back to being lighthearted it gets dragged back to being personal.

Thanks for the support in the karma I have recieved from many, and the great replies I have recieved and the chuckles too! Not to mention those Minstrels. Shall we leave it there now??

Last edited by Poppy2; May 22nd 2007 at 1:54 am. Reason: added lists
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