Simon Schama - New Zealand/Australia Union
 

I missed this somehow despite loving his work (thoroughly recommend if you’ve not tried already :)). BBC linky: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00rth9p

Re: Simon Schama - New Zealand/Australia Union
 

cool!

Re: Simon Schama - New Zealand/Australia Union
 

Interesting, but there is no need to worry, as there is no possibility of a union with Australia in the foreseeable future.

Maori (and many European New Zealanders) will simply not accept any constitutional document which could override the Treaty of Waitangi, or which could cede any sovereignty to an overseas body.

Re: Simon Schama - New Zealand/Australia Union
 

I don't see the benefits to New Zealand yet, it would need to get very poor first.

Re: Simon Schama - New Zealand/Australia Union
 

Yes. This is the biggest issue from this side of the Tasman - What to do with the Maori and their historical claims.

As far as the Australian constitution goes, NZ could become part of Australia today as when the states were originally established, NZ was included in the Australian constitution.

In fact, New Zealand used to be part of the colony of New South Wales before Australia was created I think.

BB

Re: Simon Schama - New Zealand/Australia Union
 

This gets aired every few years and then put back in the cupboard :D

I don't think it's going to happen but here are the reasons that are given for a union

Top Reasons why New Zealand should join Australia

10. Pay equalization. The prosperity difference is at a critical point. (Australians are earning twice what we are)
Doctors, radiologists, forklift drivers. Even the minimum wage is 50% higher in Australia (equal to NZ$18.65/hr).

9. Its the economy, together we will prosper.

8. GST will go down to 10% and none on the basics milk, bread, meat, fruit and vegetables.

7. More Growth. The local markets of Australia and New Zealand will both expand. If we join, we will prosper. The government and the pension funds (which we will join) will invest here, once the risk of investing in a foreign country is removed.

6. Stop head office RELOCATION - Keep the tax rates the same and NZ head offices wont relocate to Australia to get the tax break.

5.Health. Australians dont want to come here because the health systems are worse If we join up we will get a better health system.

4. We CAN join Australia. We would be mad to turn down the opportunity.

Go to our website www. Joinaustraliamovement.co.nz and see The Australian Founding Document Page 2 section 6-, Founding States.

3. Superannuation. Australia are bounding ahead. If you can't [beat]them - join them.

2.Sport. Dont worry, well keep the All Blacks just like the UK keeps England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

1. Bank ownership. Being part of the same tax basket ,we will own the bank of New Zealand again -Oh yes! Its the way to a brighter future.

from http://www.joinaustraliamovement.co....xidc76193.html

But why should Kiwis bother when so many are already living and working in Australia?

Re: Simon Schama - New Zealand/Australia Union
 

Oooh, sounds like similar reasons that have been quoted for the UK joining/staying in the EU - what a jolly jape that has turned out to be....

Re: Simon Schama - New Zealand/Australia Union
 

We could do like a "South Pacific Union" type thing like the EU? Free trade and movement of people, establishing and promoting human rights, economic cooperation in pursuit of development?

Joining Australia wouldn’t directly guarantee New Zealand economic prosperity, their prosperity has been gained by taking advantage of mineral assets and subsequent supporting industries (manufacturing etc). While we have mineral assets here in New Zealand we have not yet really exploited those opportunities.

Re: Simon Schama - New Zealand/Australia Union
 

There are, agreeably, attractive sides to the argument, however, these can all be countered by the fact that Australia is populated by Aussies.....

nuff said.

Re: Simon Schama - New Zealand/Australia Union
 

:D and a lot of Kiwis and Poms!

Re: Simon Schama - New Zealand/Australia Union
 

Thank goodness for that. I'd be worried if it was mainly populated by immigrants!!! :rofl:

BB

Re: Simon Schama - New Zealand/Australia Union
 

Aussie Immigration Officer: " Do you have any criminal convictions"
Traveller: "Oh I´m sorry, I didn´t realise they were still mandatory"

:)

Re: Simon Schama - New Zealand/Australia Union
 

I thought they were all working in London bars?? And Aus was populated by Kiwi´s... must stop believing everything I read...:rofl:

Re: Simon Schama - New Zealand/Australia Union
 

One thing most New Zealanders will not admit or more likely do not know is that a large proportion of New Zealand's first white settlers were ex-cons who had completed their sentences in Aussie and wanted to move to New Zealand where their past would not be known about.

So by proxy, New Zealand was also a convict - populated country.

BB

Re: Simon Schama - New Zealand/Australia Union
 

Yes but don´t let a good fact get in the way of a great joke :rofl:

Re: Simon Schama - New Zealand/Australia Union
 

Has some one gates to the Australian forum open? They seem to be wandering away from their own part of the forum :p.

Re: Simon Schama - New Zealand/Australia Union
 

Back that up pls (though honestly, I doubt anyone would care)

Actually at that point there was much to and fro and very little sense of "Australia" and "NZ" making the argument kind of moot imo. One of my ancestors buggered off to Oz in the 19th century and had a bigamous marriage, which means there are a lot of Aussies with dodgy kiwi roots he he

Re: Simon Schama - New Zealand/Australia Union
 

They bring it up every few years etc. etc. Yawn.

Re: Simon Schama - New Zealand/Australia Union
 

Indeed, the below article indicates that many people were temporary trading vistors to NZ though it does say that "Some had come most of the way against their will to the Australian convict settlement of Sydney..... Many of New Zealand’s early immigrants first spent time in Australia"

http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/history-of-immigration/1

BB

Re: Simon Schama - New Zealand/Australia Union
 

While not wanting to spoil a good story.......

Many of New Zealand’s early immigrants first spent time in Australia and most of them were only temporary visitors in search of items to trade.

Hope that helps
:)

Re: Simon Schama - New Zealand/Australia Union
 

I wondered whether it would be good to have a unilateral currency but then thinking about the Euro I am now not so sure....

Re: Simon Schama - New Zealand/Australia Union
 

Do you mean a common currency?

Europe is a completely different case though isn't it. All those countries, all those different economies all with their own particular strengths and weaknesses.

At least here the Australian and NZ banking systems are practically the same, most of the Kiwi banks are offshoots of Australian banks. It wouldn't be so hard to have a common currency.

Who knows, now that we have money trader John in the hot seat things may change?

Re: Simon Schama - New Zealand/Australia Union
 

Its here guys if you want to listen to it and can't get onto bbc iplayer

http://rapidshare.com/files/43053815...0_09-04-10.mp3

bev remove if not allowed please.

Re: Simon Schama - New Zealand/Australia Union
 

Yes that would be the one. I am patiently waiting for HSBC to move down here and give the Australian banks a run for their money :p not overwhelmed with the banking system thus far!

Re: Simon Schama - New Zealand/Australia Union
 

Taking it slow so far :huh:.

Re: Simon Schama - New Zealand/Australia Union
 

So by convicts that were ashamed of their criminal past, rather than proud of it?

Re: Simon Schama - New Zealand/Australia Union
 

Hmm, I"'m not so sure.

As things are now each country has independence in setting interest rates to cool things down as needed, etc. for their economies. That would be lost if there was a common currency. Even though Canada and the USA are separate, Canada has been keeping interest rates v. v. low to keep in line with teh USA and the result has been very mixed for Canadians.

Re: Simon Schama - New Zealand/Australia Union
 

hahahaha. yes i am sure a few of my ancestors ended up in botany bay. :rofl:

Re: Simon Schama - New Zealand/Australia Union
 

Yep and the issue is the disparity between those economies, that causes the intra-Euro stress without having local tools (such as in-country interest rates), to deal with the local issues.

Australia's economic mineral wealth alone might be the undoing of any local combination of the NZ and Aus economies. And any attempt to link the NZ currency with the Aus would see the NZ economy struggle and bear the brunt of artificially maintaining a parity that doesnt naturally exist, just as with the ERM. As Maggie said, you can't buck the market.

Re: Simon Schama - New Zealand/Australia Union
 

Union between the two countries will eventually be achieved organically by osmosis.

Re: Simon Schama - New Zealand/Australia Union
 

But isn't that what Kiwibank was set up up to achieve?

The Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking Corporation is already present in the southern hemisphere (as their name suggests) and it has branches in New Zealand and Australia:

http://www.hsbc.co.nz/ and http://www.hsbc.com.au/

As for not being impressed with the NZ banks, well love them or loathe them it's their strong links with their Australian counterparts that has kept New Zealand's head above water during the GFC.

If Australia hadn't have put the bank deposit guarantees in place there's no way that New Zealand would have been able to do the same.

I can tell you not so long ago people in NZ were seriously bricking it about whether it was safe to leave their money in New Zealand banks, it was only those guarantees that kept the money in the country. And we saw no bank nationalisations here.

Re: Simon Schama - New Zealand/Australia Union
 

And what of the land clearances in the Scottish highlands and people displaced by the potato famine in Ireland?

Not to mention all the people who migrated from continental Europe, also suffering the effects of famine? - Dutch, Danish Germans, Slavs.......?

Re: Simon Schama - New Zealand/Australia Union
 

No convicts were ever shipped to NZ

Re: Simon Schama - New Zealand/Australia Union
 

Yes I agree, my in laws are here and my husband has had a property here for many years and all were (and still are) very worried about the state of the financial markets. My poor in laws had money in South Canterbury Finance too. I'm talking about banking from the perspective of your average consumer (as in usability). The problem with everything Australian is that there is still no competition that you see in the UK so you are still stuck with what is essentially a mediocre product at the end of the day. Online banking, paying for things online, it is pretty cumbersome.

But HSBC only has premier banking but not everyday banking for the likes of me who barely has 2 cents to rub together. They still aren't a major player here in NZ as far as I can see. I miss First Direct of all things :eek: and resent being charged every 5 seconds whenever I try and do anything. Banks all the same at the end of the day moan, moan!

PS feedback I've had from everyone I asked about Kiwibank was that it was pretty poor as I looked at opening up our accounts with them, but wasn't that impressed with the range they offered. Thinking of heading to National Bank instead - ASB truly are a rip off!

Re: Simon Schama - New Zealand/Australia Union
 

Hong Kong and Shanghai are both well into the Northern hemisphere....;)

Re: Simon Schama - New Zealand/Australia Union
 

Ubiquitous, isn't it :)

Londonescapee why not try Rabobank?

Have you got a mortgage yet? If you're not a high salary earner banks relax their fee structure if you're already up to your ears in debt with them.

As for lack of competition. Well you pays yer money and....then lump it or like it. What else can you expect in a country with only four million inhabitants?

It's not about choice, or competition, it's about learning to adapt to what you're given and working out how best to live with it: work the system.