Scotwithakiwi

Hey all, I'm new to the forum and looking for some help from you guys. I've been looking online for answers but don't seem to be making sense of things!

Basically my partner, who I'd like to settle with, wants to go home to NZ to do so. Having read a lot of good and bad about people who've moved from the uk, I'm trying to do things ask logically as possible. Im Scottish and currently have a good job in London I'm happy with, but said if NZ was ever to be a possibility for me I'd rather have a more skilled job to give me better prospects than simply being a kiwi wife and mother...I can get very restless and suffe from anxiety and frustation, i feel that I'd quickly feel isolated having no other purpose so far away from home. Im also proud and feel like I need to know I'm earning my own money to give me confidence and independence if required.

I'm at a hard stage of considering (after a visit last year) whether I could commit to NZ. I've been reading up on legislation around what would happen should we have kids etc and am a little concerned at jumping in both feet first as I'm 30 and need to make sure I don't do something I may hugely regret one day, and something which won't cause issues over custody battles etc should things not go as planned. Maybe a little negative to some of you but I'm a bit of a realist.

My initial consideration was that I simply can't and won't move there. This would mean leaving my partner which would break my heart...so now my decision is that I have to give nz a shot for at least a year or two, to know I've been fair and won't have to live with a 'what if'.

If I come, i know already that I'd need to be able to work. And it would be best if I could do this 'skilled' profession immediately otherwise my experience won't be a true representation of how my life would be should I choose to stay. Apples and oranges....

What I'm wondering - and I think I know the answer.... Is, should I study in the uk, and do my 'trial' once I'm qualified, or should I use my time there to study? From what I see it's much easier to transfer the skills and take relevant adaptive courses going uk to nz than the other way around. Then if things don't work out I can come back here and slot back in easily. I think, from what I've read, that if I qualified out there it wouldn't be as straight forward to return.

Apologies for bringing drama to the table on my intro but I need to make sure this is well thought out otherwise il be shooting my relationship (and future) in the foot. Any advice or thoughts would be appreciated. You should also know that I'm not massively keen on the prospect of leaving the uk for nz, but I love my partner dearly. I agree it's a lovely country but I didn't feel like it was somewhere I could we myself when we went last year. So I need to set myself up to be able to adapt and survive no matter how things turn out.

Thanks for listening and I hope you can advise!

C x

Jerseygirl

Hi...welcome to BE?

As your post contains a lot of detail I am moving into our New Zealand forum.

Scotwithakiwi

Oooooh ok. Thank you

luvwelly

I think your initial position is a wise one.
He met you in the UK (how long ago?)..it is unreasonable to expect you to agree to make a permanent move to NZ. It is likely too early for you to make that kind of sacrifice. He chose to come to the UK not you.

If you are at all close to your friends and family, you will hate the isolation. How I stuck it 5 years I really do not know. I suppose because I always knew it wasn't forever.
If he really loves you, he would stay in UK for you...where you met - iyswim.

Scotwithakiwi

We met two years ago and he's a dual national. Thing is he has 9 nieces an nephews who he's adamant he wants to see grow up, and a father who had a stroke last year so on both counts I understand. However I can't help but feel I have to accept and go along to 'rejoin the life he left' when he has friends who've been very unwelcoming to me now gone back to nz and I have no 'skill' to throw myself at in order to ensure I don't feel like I'm there as token wife. His family made me feel welcome however I'm also aware that they see it as being that if I feel like I want to be there they'll get him back sooner. I suggested a middle ground such as Canada but he's made it impossibly clear that he thinks NZ has the best healthcare, education and lifestyle of anywhere in the world. It's a very tough situation for me if I'm honest and having looked at laws re children - that is that if I go there AFTER we had children he can make them citizens without my knowledge of consent making it impossible for me to take those children out of the country with me. He keeps asking why I'm looking at things this deeply and just not excited by the 'adventure' - and he's implying I'm negative and cold for considering the worst as well as the good. It's not an adventure if you have no desire to go for your own reasons, it's simply cooperation, and it's not an adventure as a COUPLE if one person is simply returning to their old life. I have a really small family, and a gay brother. I'll have the only grandchildren my parents will ever see and already far behind cousins of mine having no children yet....this is something I can't take lightly and get caught in the moment with as I've been in a similar position before and completely lost myself and my identity. I won't do that again so I need to have something of my own when I go, and something I will have if I leave. I hate having to be so clinical but it's very far away and not a decision that should be made simply because you love someone. You always need to think of your own wel being and mental health and I know myself now and know what I can and can't accept and bend to....very hard.... Thanks for your reply x

Scotwithakiwi

It does seem that more women than men see the point I'm making here. Any male friends are like 'oh I'LL go of you don't want to' blah blah but men bond, they booze and they don't think or feel like us.

Assanah

Oh, that is a tough decision for you to make! It is hard when partners are not pulling in the same direction in life!
Well, NZ has the best lifestyle for some for others (like me) not at all. You need to figure out if NZ lifestyle will suit you. If not, you will likely run into trouble as NZ is very monolithic, much less social variety than in the UK. If you like cities (even only for a visit once in a while) consider that there are no entities in NZ worthwhile to call cities. Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch are all small towns at heart. Also consider what it would mean to you leaving your family behind! it is very expensive to buy flights from NZ to the UK!
Education I think is also viewed differently by different people. There are some that really like NZ education but I know others that left NZ because they wanted their children to have a better education than NZ offers. Don't take everything your partner says about how great NZ is at face value. NZ is not paradise! They have many, many social and environmental problems here at least as bad as you have in the UK.

If NZ is not your dream, I personally would insist on a compromise such as Canada. I think that is a good idea. And NZ does most certainly NOT offer a better lifestyle, better education, better economy as Canada. That is just BS.

BEVS

I'm 100% with Luvwelly on this.
Don't even consider coming to NZ on the terms you have written about.
Stay put . Take up your UK study and be prepared that the relationship will not last, tough though that may seem as written words.

Once you are sure, beyond all shadow of doubt ,that NZ would be where you want to be to live and bring up a family , then that's when you start to think about a move. Not before.

I'm a bit shocked he is suggesting this at all, given how you feel.

Pom_Chch

Hi C,

I guess you have to figure out what will break your heart the most - splitting with your boyfriend or moving away from your life in the UK.

I am in the process of moving to NZ, fly out in January. I must say that I would not consider the move if I was close to my family and saw my friends on a regular basis. Don't get me wrong I love each and every one of them dearly but we aren't a close family. As for my friends I will miss my two best friends very much but I don't see them often at all.

Also if you have been to NZ and can't see yourself living there then I would really think long and hard about your decision, which I am sure you are doing! To move across the other side of the world to a place you can't see yourself living in away from your family and friends is not a advisable. You also mention anxiety. If there's a couple of emotions I've had recently it's excitement and anxiety!

I also totally understand your point of not wanting to give up your good job in London to arrive in a different country without a job you would like to do. Have you researched what NZ has to offer for you job wise? Perhaps this would help with your decision. I know for the OH and I work opportunities are better for us in NZ than the UK, but this may not be the same for everyone.

Then there's the having kids in NZ. If you are unhappy with kids in NZ and want to return to the UK you will not be able to take your kids unless their father gives permission. I doubt many fathers would let this happen unless his children were suffering in some way being in NZ. If you are already thinking of custody battles then I really don't think this move is for you. The prospect of emigrating with your partner to set up a new life should be filled with excitement and happiness rather than thinking that it could result in custody and court battles.

I don't mean to sound negative. I am all for travelling and living in a new country but I also feel that your heart has to be in it and is something you really want to do.

I hope you figure it out and come to a decision x

lisamct

I wont comment on your other issues around moving but I'll help out with the midwifery side if I can although I am a bit confused. Are you already a midwife or are you just considering training to be a midwife? I think your just considering training by what I can tell (sorry if I'm wrong, I've been up all night catching a baby so I'm a bit sleep deprived!)

Anyway, if your choices are to train as a midwife in the UK or NZ then there's a few things you need to think about.

Availability of courses - its MUCH harder to get into a midwifery course in the UK than it is in NZ. UK uni's have hundreds of applicants for usually 20 or 30 places and many people apply for several years before even getting an interview. Saying that its not all that easy here either, theres a lot of competition and you need to show commitment before they'll even consider you for a place.

Cost - training is free in the UK, you would pay here in NZ and unless you gain residency you would pay ridiculously high foreign student fees

Bursary/loan - depending on where you are in the UK I think there may still be some bursaries available which you wouldnt have to pay back, here its only student loans which you must pay back when you start working.

Placements - in the UK you would do most if not all practical placements in the hospitals so shift work. Here in NZ your placements are mainly with LMC midwives which would mean you being on call 24/7 along with your mentor.

Transfer of qualifications - Both countries require you do complete adaptation courses depending on where you train. I'm pretty sure if you train outside the UK you need to complete a foreign midwives course before you can register and if you come to NZ you would need to complete several courses to fully register here too, neither is a straightforward cross over.

Job prospects - In the UK there are hundreds of newly qualified midwives unable to find work on finishing uni. The media portray it as a midwife shortage but thats not true, there's a money shortage preventing hospitals from employing staff which is why they are short on the 'shop floor' not because there aren't enough midwives.
Here in NZ it isn't as bad and most new grads find jobs pretty quickly. There's also the option on working as an LMC straight from qualifying here so you don't actually need a job just a client base (that in itself has its own set of issues)

Be aware that where ever you decide to train its a hard hard slog of 3 years at uni, doing uni work along side long shifts or on call (no long holidays for midwifery students, you work 45 weeks of the year)
Also neither county will accept a new grad without experience so where ever you train you would also have to commit to working at least a year or so in that country before you could transfer elsewhere.

Sorry if I've rambled on, sleep deprived as I said but, if you need to ask anything else midwifery related please do.

luvwelly

OP
Bev and I, are both much older than you and seemingly both very happily married. If he really loves you, he will stay in UK for you honestly.
You are 30, so you can't put off kids for much longer. Maybe with his attitude he is not the one for you.
I think it is best to retrain first.
Your further information post is very scary...there's nothing in this for you except what you feel for him at the moment. As for the Kiwi friends being mean to you while they were in UK, I can guarantee that will not get any better whatsoever. In fact what will happen is that he will socialise with his mates and you won't get a look in. I think it's a financial thing, to keep costs down married couples socialise mainly with their friends without partners.

He has a rose-tinted view of NZ imho.
Education is good in NZ if you go private (which we did), ditto healthcare not so good, still long waiting lists even privately, lifestyle yeah it has its good aspects but I hate summer Xmas with a vengeance. The low wages are a real issue. What sort of work does he do himself? The thing is the easiest way for you to get an NZ visa is for him to marry you (I think) but that traps you big time especially if you have kids and given the other things you have said about how well you know yourself...I think you have answered your own question.
The underlying relationship is not strong enough/too one-sided if he won't consider your views more - after all you have visited NZ so you have an idea what it would be like.
The danger with a third location is that neither of you will be happy.

Go and sign on for your training in UK, tell him you'd love him to stick around and see what happens. It will be for the best honestly.

Caz8NZ

Hi and Welcome. I think I can see where you are coming from and I feel for you. Did your partner come to the UK for his OE experience? and now home is drawing him back. This is quite common with kiwis - they want to go overseas for the experience and travel but home is totally where the heart is for them and they can look at NZ with very much rose tinted glasses.

I think you're approaching your decision very intelligently as moving to the other side of the world just to be with your partner is a massive thing if you are thinking long term and having a family.

Looks like lisamct gave some very comprehensive advice on training and qualifications and what is required which is great.

Do you mind if i ask - what's your current job. are you in healthcare at the moment? If you do the training in either country, what is it that's drawing you to midwifery?
I'd also ask at this point if you get restless and anxious at the moment - how do you resolve these issues currently - are you able to address them in the same way if you live in Nz?

woooo well that is quite a bit of research - but it makes me wonder how secure you feel in this relationship to be having this many doubts to go to look at this.

Why? Question why you can't and won't move to NZ? Whats the hold for you in the UK? I'm not saying there isn't one, just you don't mention what it is that's giving you the negative towards the move. At the risk of being harsh - is it that you just don't want to end your relationship with your partner as you don't want to have to start all over again? (i know that feeling!) Another option to consider - if you wanted to come to NZ for a year or 2 to give it a shot - apply for a Working Holiday Visa before you turn 31. It won't cost you much and you could come over for up to 23 months - you can only work 12 of those though. You also cannot take up study on it. BUT if whilst you are here, decided you wanted to study - there's nothing to stop you from applying to change your visa.

from this statement alone I would say that moving to NZ doesn't seem like the right thing for you. If you don't want to live in NZ and aren't keen on it as a place to live its almost guaranteed to fail. Adapting and surviving if things don't turn out well is also no way to live.

I agree with the others - if his friends weren't nice to you in the UK - they aren't going to be in NZ either. Its not going to change them that much. You will have to start your life from scratch and build friendships. Finding a job, settling in a new country, trying to make friends and build a whole life from scratch - in somewhere that you don't really want to be is incredibly difficult.

I do think that your partner is being a bit insensitive telling you to move with him as an adventure - I can see it from his point of view as well - but what does he think when you tell him you really don't want to live in NZ and why.

For a change - I agree with what Assanah says about the NZ lifestyle. It is not the same as England or Europe. Attitudes are very different over here.
Why did you move from Scotland to London? Do you crave to go back to scotland as i'd say NZ is more like scotland than London. Even Auckland. If you love the London lifestyle and can't imagine living anywhere else, do you really think that NZ is for you? In addition to that - where in NZ would you be based?

It is very much a tough decision for you to make and i'm not sure how you make it. My gut feeling, from what you have wrote, is that more than anything you are scared of splitting from your partner and the only way you can stay together is to move to NZ. I don't think its the right option if that's the only reason you are doing it.

Assanah

I agree with luvwelly! Canada should only be an option if both of you could see yourselves living there.

Catchafire

You mentioned you are 30, you can apply for a 12 or 23 month WHV (Working Holiday Visa), as perviously mentioned. It is easy to apply for and allows you to work in NZ for a up to a year.

So it gives you a buffer to get your head around living and working in NZ.

Better get your skates on though, you have to apply for the visa when you are 30 and from when it is issued you have a year to start to use it.

Having read your original post, I understand you reservations. My wife is neither a Kiwi or from the UK, we have kids now and there is always the danger if we split, then my kids would become a tug of love piggies in the middle.

But if the feeling is strong enough, then heart wins over head, you only have one life to live.

Scotwithakiwi

Pfffffff - lots of replies and relevant information, thanks so much. The midwifery advice is really useful thanks. To explain that briefly, my mother trained as a midwife so I have a lot of exposure to the positives and negatives and the reason I chose this was that healthcare professionals are skilled and valuable. Its also the only real healthcare role which pricked my attention (other than possibly optometry which may be another option as it's a 2 year course here from what I'm aware with far less rules around conversion).

He is an IT consultant so there is always plenty of work for him in any country. Contracting and chopping and changing are also far more easily attainable.

He came to the UK almost by accident. Went travelling after his last relationship broke down and landed in London without cash, and ended up settling a bit. He did always say he'd want to go back to NZ but initially I was a little more open to the thought of moving, then since the situations with his friends - and having now been, I feel differently. I hoped that the longer he stayed with me he'd be willing to compromise a little but he told me last week very matter of factly that nothing has, or will change and he doesn't want to leave me but he wants what he wants and that's it.

I am not overly close to my family but that's down to my moving around a lot and not always having time/money to go back regularly. I do however feel that when the time comes to have a family I NEED to know my mum is close, or closer than a 28 hour flight anyway. I also don't think he understands how someone on the other side of the world, whos older,overwhelmed and has their first baby would feel surrounded by people who 'have experience and know best'. I'm happy to have advice of course but I want to bring my children up how me and my partner see fit - not to have a huge family pressuring me and telling me I should be doing things differently. Something my own family would never do.

I suggested Canada as it's always intrigued me and it's huge so lots of room to move around and find 'your corner' - He has been and said he did love it but it's not NZ. When I suggested this he said I was only saying it because 'I was being stubborn and didn't see why I should be the one to give up my family so was trying to make sure he didn't have his either to make myself feel better'. In a way this is true I suppose, but certainly not in the negative way he implied. It wasn't to keep him away from his family. It was so we were on neutral ground and COMPROMISING, where he said I wanted him to make sacrifices to match mine...same thing but different undertones. That's what a compromise IS!?

My current role is a Business Development Manager for an online accounting service for contractors. I have a lot of responsibility, a lot of self respect, and dealing with the region I have, I am to some extent the most important BDM they have in the country, which gives me confidence and self worth even if it is hard work. I've been a client services manager in the past and having done a couple of interim 'just admin' and even cleaning/general assistant work in hotels for a partner who lives remotely in Scotland. The feeling of selling myself short caused me to be paranoid, insecure and each time I took one of these less challenging roles I found it very hard to come back from it and believe I was ever going to succeed again. I'm caring and compassionate (thus the lean towards healthcare as a skilled role) but on the flip side I'm extremely driven, independent and ambitious. I can't lose this going to NZ...

My anxiety now when it arises, normally passes with some chats with friends or family. It generally gets diluted with some familiarity, where in NZ I see that if and when I felt anxious or lonely I could be pushed very far into a corner with it which would make life unpleasant for all involved.

It isn't the fear of starting over again which makes me stay with my OH either, I adore him and he's truly special. If he didn't want me, I'd start over right away. I have a lot of self respect and although I'd be sad, I'm not worried about not finding anyone else. I'm a confident and attractive woman with lots going for me. But I want HIM. And the reasons against me moving are:

It is BORING - straight up boring. I have piercings, tattoos, right now purple hair...I like quirky clothes, always edgy and when I went there I was overwhelmed by how poor their shops are compared to here. Lack of choice and quality and above all - lack of singularity. Nothing looks different or exciting.

I'm also not keen to move as I KNOW he will just slot into his old life....and I'll be left like a spectator. He said this is not true but we all know it is. His family are so nice but very overwhelming. My parents let me be, and make my own decisions and mistakes with support. They don't interfere and I see this will happen if I go. And if it does? It will be 3-5 brothers and sisters PLUS partners vs me. The fact is they already think he can do no wrong (where my mother admits my faults and loves me for them as much as my good traits). They'll all have the same approach to life/anxieties and stresses and don't get the 'Britishness' of some things so just dismiss them as insanity. I feel a bit like I'll just be ganged up on if I don't conform to all they do/are. Not in a nasty way but does it matter if its in a nasty way?

On Scotland - I came from a mid sized town. I moved to Glasgow to find something bigger when I was young...then moved to Argyll (where I subsequently trapped myself by getting involved with a farmer) for 3 years en route to London and almost missed my chance. I came here a shell of a person, no confidence, lost in style from trying to please to country folks and 'tone myself down' - having worked cleaning rooms in a hotel for that whole time and finding it hard to believe I'd fine better here. But I worked hard and I HAVE. I miss Scotland but tend to feel differently once I've gone for a visit. I love camping and what not in summer as I think Scotland is one of the most beautiful countries there is. But, when I go home to my home town, I quickly remember why I left. It simply isn't 'me' any more. I'm grown and far more complex than this allows now. I miss the people, the accent and the funny Scottish ways...but never going to live there again doesn't bother me.

London is AMAZING. I love it, although it's hard...but it's not somewhere I want to settle. Very hard financially, space wise, and not the best place to have kids due to numbers and lack of 'outdoors' so therefore I'm happy to look elsewhere. Just not NZ

His family live on the North Shore. It's very 'Stepford Wives' to me...which is NOT me....a nice place but pretty dull. And as I mentioned about his friends, I've been trying to explain to him that for me to consider going there he needs to address this - SERIOUSLY. But he doesn't want to rock the boat with them, which tells me he doesn't care or respect my feelings enough. If he expects me to make sacrifices then he should be willing to make SOME too surely?? Telling those people that the way they act makes me feel negative about my future with him and that if they cared about him they should make the effort to make me feel involved and welcome so that he doesn't have to choose home or me...but again he makes out that this is too awkward for him to do and 'being dramatic' and me asking him to choose between them and me. When the truth is - right now he's not sacrificing or compromising on ANYTHING. Wants to go to NZ, wants to travel first, go where he wants to go when he does, for the duration he chooses, wants his friends as they are, and just wants me to go along with it all. Literally just be there like an opinionless shadow...He said he loves me for the weirdo that I am...but then he's willing to crush that out of me to make sure he gets EVERYTHING exactly how he always planned.....I'm pretty lost. And the more I type the more ridiculous it seems....

We're just wasting time aren't we? He's never going to compromise...and in no respect are my feelings or needs enough to make that happen even in the tiniest respect....Everyone has a plan about how they want their future to be. But very few people get that future to the letter. It seems if I stay with him and move there I'll not get a single thing I ever hoped for - except a good man....and he will have it all....

Funny how the post began with my trying to figure out how to make it work...the midwifery advice etc, and now it's become a debate on whether it's even worth looking into when the only reason I NEED it is if I'd consider moving....

Thanks for all the advice so far. Feel free to chip in on anything else you feel or want to advise. I'm still lost....the more opinions the better.....

C x