Re: Riots.
 

from what i can see this is nothing to do with race, the initial protest was race linked,
people being singled out by police etc etc but whats going on now is not linked to race or ethnicity at all
and i think anyone who is trying to make that link it way off the mark with whats going on

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There are some good caring people still about, these are the ones who make you proud. Social Networks can do good as well. :wub:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14456857 :)

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...and what makes you think some twenty year old who's just spent a year in the middle east, fighting for democracy, is going to accept orders to beat the crap out of his countrymen?
I'm an ex squaddie, and gave up on this thread on the second page. Th army may be the end to all evils as far as the government is concerned, but they're still british citizens. leave the poor bastards out of it, they've got enough on their consciences.

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absobloody-lutely

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That's really strange - there was a point where the country could have descended into total anarchy, the police were being outnumbered and overrun, British people were being put in real danger - wouldn't the Army (like the Police) want to step in and defend their country? Isn't that what they are paid for? Not being funny, just don't understand.

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Shocking wots happening in London, so bizarre the state of anarchy, couldnt believe it when i saw it on the news. Keep safe Londoners

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Not just London anymore, Most of England's youths has gone mental. :scaredhair:
Its soooo scary, Not reached Preston yet but gangs seem to want to loot and copy others they see on TV... I have family in Manchester, London and Liverpool i hope they stay safe.
I feel so sorry for the Police, they can't do anything or risk being done for accidently injuring one of those Thuggish Morons. Bring out Teargas, water cannons, batons and rubber bullets.

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for god sake will people calm down, its ridiculous everyone getting in a flap
about this crap.
Its a few riots and looting not a bloody martian invasion :thumbdown:

Keep Calm & Carry On

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I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if this has been mentioned already.

But aren't there a lot of similarities with the Toxteth riots in 1981? Back then there was a similar economic downturn, lots of tension between youth and police: disaffected, disconnected youth (no social networks back then)

If I recall correctly it was far, far more violent then than what's going on now - tear gas was used, multiple buildings burned to the ground. There may have been fatalities. There were also riots in Bristol and London. I can appreciate why the police are trying to use as little force as possible, they're even backing off using less aggressive measures such as water cannon. It could so easily get out of hand.

When it all finished there was a lot of navel gazing, some major report was complied and out of it came things like the Liverpool garden festival (which I went to with my family and still have the pics)

Out of the ashes some good will rise.

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Would Love to be able to, But it just makes me soooo angry to see :curse:
Its on the News every 5 mins, and the amount of videos and photos on internet enough to make me want to go out with a bat!!!!
People losing their livelihood, cars, lives....

Its easier to Keep calm and relax when they are talking about the clean up :wub:

OK i am talking a deep breath and calming down! :unsure:

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Hello

This was a bit before my time but i am now going to google it.

Out of the ashes some good will rise. - i like this and i'm sure your right. It will bring the country together, i like seeing how many people have got together for the clean ups.
As soon as the riots hit manchester someone posted a meetup for the morning clean up.. 100's of people working together to put right the mess the Thugs have left.

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Yes well thanks for the reassurance I'm sure that will help immensely.....:blink:

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I went for coffee at work this morning (can't really say where, probably a bit commercially sensitive) and saw 200 police from up north and Wales seated, having breakfast. Obviously drafted into London and staying, shall we say, in the postcode.

Now that was reassuring.

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nah it's not reassurance - - - he just wants to sell some tee-shirts/coasters/posters :p

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I'm very shocked and saddened by what's going on.

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its what you get when the Tories are in charge for a couple of years and they choose to squeeze those at the bottom of the pile harder

can't see the super-rich going without in this particular recession, but what's new about that?

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Now that is bad news:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...ngham-14471405

3 men run over and killed in Winson Green (Birmingham) whilst trying to protect shops from looters.

A sad day RIP.

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80's revisited - and I am not talking shoulder pads.

For me, the best film that summed up those feelings was 'Brassed Off'. Saw it on it's opening night - never known an audience to stand up and applaud at the end of a film.

RIP Pete Postlethwaite - apparently you were also the favourite actor of Steven Spielberg, whoever he is.

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yep RIP Pete, they did mention Mr Spielberg appreciating his skills on the news over here

just listening to the Edgbaston test, something to cheer about for us England fans :thumbsup:

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This may ramble on a bit.

Talking about 'Brassed Off' took me back, not the 80's, but the 60's. 'Brassed off' was partly filmed around the places of Diggle and Delph, on the edge of the Saddleworth Moors. Our family lived in Saddleworth in the mid 60's, when I was aged between 5 and 10, yet was only 20 years later, that I had the dawning realisation of the danger. We were totally protected from the events, everything was normal, I just remember it being one of the happiest periods of my life.

The point is, we were shielded then, some might think too much, but just look at the youth today and the violence to which it is exposed. Oz slapped an X-rating on computer games this week, not before time. I remember watching the mood of my stepson change after he had played 'Assassin Creed'. Quite scary. It isn't just computer games - TV / DVD / Newspapers all persistenly carry themes of violence and sex. A 12 year old boy was arrested here last week, for indecently attacking a 6 year old girl.

Schools were also so much different then. Mrs Ellis was her name, my favourite teacher. One day, whilst we were making a nativity scene, we needed to draw a huge circle. We were dumbfounded - the compasses were not big enough. She took me in a room, gave me a drawing pin and a piece of string, said 'work it out', then shut the door behind her and left me on my own! Fabulous - you would never get away with doing that now, but it worked.

Anyway - this is not an excuse making thread - those expletives need to be taught a lesson, and hopefully that will also include being locked in a small room. The UK is going to have to move on from this, and if changes are made, to education, to training and most importantly, to discipline and respect, then perhaps we can salvage something out of this mess. We have got to try and make sure that the future is full of the people we would like have in our society.

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says a lot eh?

Suppose if the rioters/looters were readers then they could check in Waterstones to find that:

So there would be no need to all have an iPad from Curry's an iPhone from Phones4U and some nice hair slides from Claire's..........:unsure:

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That's proper upsetting.

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It's a nightmare. What has been happening is shocking and horrific. Cannot understand why Mr Cameron being so namby pamby. Ok, so it was a big surprise the first night but when it kicked off again the second night why oh why didn't we get a lot more reactive? He's been on the telly today saying that the police can have access to water canons at 24hrs notice :eek: The police need back up NOW. They are doing a good job but Mr Cameron doesn't seem to have the leadership skills required in this instance. I really hope these "troublemakers" get what they deserve and I for one don't think that's too much understanding.

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I think the issue with water cannons is that they are useful for dispersing a crowd or moving a crowd back to gain space but the looter scenario is a bit different as it's fast moving, widely dispersed groups. Blimey, am I ever glad I'm not a cop at the moment!

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Bring back hanging. The bastard who did this deserves to die IMO (murdering the 3 chaps outside a place of worship with a stolen car). What a coward. I fear the authorities have some blood on their hands as had someone with a more robust attitude had been in charge there is a good chance with the correct tools all this crap could have been quelled in the 1st 2 days. Did you hear the sentences for 2 rioters? I heard '10 and 16' 1st and thought 'yes'...10 and 16 years which I feel is appropriate and tough enough to disuade other morons...it was 10/16 weeks. WTF!!!!!!!!!!????? So the idiot who said 'I will loot until I am caught cos nuffing will 'appen to me' was right more or less. What pathetic sentences. I seem to remember the sentences for riot are or were very, very severe when I was a plod.

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I am pleased to report that the feeling on the streets here is that the worst has passed. I think surprise was a key element in the mobs' "success", and that element is now long gone.

The media can again start to focus on economic ruin instead. :ohmy:

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Good news eh? I did think it would lose steam. It is a real shame the gutless people at the top did not have the will to crush it quickly. I did not like Thatcher as a politician but she would have gone in fast and sharp, thus removing the head of the ugly behemoth that is anarchy. God save tranquility and order.

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I particularly liked the 'tweet' from Greater Manchester Police earlier. It read: "Captured lots of criminals on CCTV. We will identify you and we will be coming for you."

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Where was Nero when Rome burned? We know where Mr Cameron was he was flirting with some waitress on his holidays while England burned.

My solution... Water canons, rubber bullets, tear gas, the sack for all offenders in jobs, loss of university places for student offenders, loss of all benefits for offenders or offenders parents.

Better still do it once chop off one hand, do it twice lose the second then they would not be able to do it a third time.

June

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I think Nero was in Rome.

Some people are very clever with their feet (copyright The Goon Show)

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Cool, so that should give offenders more time and need to concentrate on looting.

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So what would you do? I truly believe we have all this endless shite in UK society cos no one fears anything because the courts are weak. I have always looked to Singapore with admiration. I think pretty much the only scared people there are criminals. Bring back corporal punishment and bring back the death penaly where it is 100% certain that you have the guilty person. There are many cases like this where a person's guilt is total and on video or provable by some other 100% correct, incorruptable way. Society is too soft. The iron fist is needed, harsh penalties and the restoration of order and calm. There is no accountability for anyone apparently..unless you are a car driver who breaks some traffic infringement then woe betide you. I behave myself because I am shit scared of what will happen to me if I err. I have respect for authority borne out of a disciplined upbringing. When I was plod I did the right thing again because of what I knew would happen to me had I chosen to do the wrong thing. Alas many of my colleagues did not have the same values.:eek: Reason I left.

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We have the death penalty here but a high crime rate.

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and armed cops, armed civilians and a high death/crime rate related to firearms

must be why NZ has such a low rate of looting and violent crime, that we have the death penalty, armed cops, and draconian responses to civil disobedience........or wait perhaps we don't :unsure:

of course capital punishment works, so does chopping people's hands off, stoning them to death and taking away their means of support. then they should be made to read the Daily Mail.......and have their brains slowly sucked out. it works to increase the rates of violence, the numbers of people prepared to shoot cops to escape, and most importantly it works to produce and sustain an underclass that have little to lose (or they think) much to gain by rising up and looting/attacking the establishment.

or we could try proper re-distribution of wealth, opportunities for people to better themselves/rehabilitate and real means of preventing the scumbags (cause there are some out there - those that incite true violence, those that live on crime and corruption and really twisted people that abuse and kill for fun) from abusing their freedoms.

it seems that once a society becomes polarised in the have-v-havenot department it goes to custard, either as a result of economic apocalypse (just look at the stats for pre-1930s and pre-2008, when the wealth gaps widened before depressions) or as a result of the poor/disenfranchised rising up one way or another

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[QUOTE=lardyl;9551770]and armed cops, armed civilians and a high death/crime rate related to firearms

must be why NZ has such a low rate of looting and violent crime, that we have the death penalty, armed cops, and draconian responses to civil disobedience........or wait perhaps we don't :unsure:quote

So how does Singapore manage it with corporal punishment, the death penalty and draconian punishment? I would vote all 3 in tomorrow for the UK and wherever else needs it. As I said there is order in Singapore and crime is very, very low so I understand. I am sick of the masses being shat on by the minority who then get all the "oh he's poor deprived lad" shite. We need to get tough on crime. What has anyone to fear about getting tough on crime if they are not going to break the law? Make punishment for serious crimes as tough as you like. It will never affect me because I behave. But it will have an effect (and a permanent one in some cases) on some of the world's bigger shits.

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It's a relatively small and more homogeneous city state where there is much less political and cultural freedom than in western countries. I'll take western democracies with higher crime rates than the societal control that Singapore imposes on its residents. Censorship, particularly of the media, is just one of many examples:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Singapore

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So it started off with race but has nothing to do with race now. These days everybody is against the police, or the state, is that what you're saying? What's the solution then, to marginalize people further or to start listening to why it all sparked off?

This is just a fragment of what this excellent blog had to say.

http://pennyred.blogspot.com/2011/08...of-london.html

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This is the next part

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Hmm, not sure. I think I would rather live in the albeit 'Stepford wife' type of country like singapore than some of the lawless places around the world who have no censorship. I have been there and found it well ordered and pleasant. Obviously I have no idea how it is to live there long term.

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Advice given to rioters to protect themselves

http://emptysthemepark.files.wordpre.../08/7mxcyz.jpg