DennisBergkamp

I wont say where i work, but in central govt, but on a few occasions recently where i have dealt with Maori on the phone i have been told

"You Poms know nothing, get lost you dont belong here"

& "I want a Maori and not some Pom to speak to, not some foreigner"

NZ is the only place where reverse racism is allowed it seems.

My boss just said "Pass them onto the Maori team"

I'm not a super lefty like most Welly folk, but the number of people who earn $80k plus a year for being Maori is an utter disgrace. No one should be paid that much for leading a waiata, blowing a shell once in a while and having lots of meetings with other Maori friends. Its a waste of money. As bad as the whole quota system in South Africa.

Probably the thing that annoys me most about NZ is all the guilt about the Treaty and forced use of Maori culture. Reparations are fine, but the token jobs and different (lower) standards for Maori staff is just wrong. Maybe its just where i work.

If i walked into a bank and asked for a staff member of a certain race/colour i'd be escorted out by security in no time!

EDIT - I forgot to add that in my line of work i deal with Kiwi's of a range of backgrounds, Samoans, Aussies and Americans, often in person - but i have only ever had abuse from Maori. Regardless of what race/nationality someone is, that behaviour is unacceptable, yet NZ seems to condone it from Maori, or brush it under the carpet. I treat people with respect and expect the same in return. I was very annoyed with my boss for brushng these incidents under the carpet as it's plain wrong.

barnsleymat

Everyone knows it happens but for some reason no one is allowed to mention it without been called a racist. A bit like not being allowed to have an opinion on immigration back in the UK without someone branding you a Nazi.

It dunt make sense in 2014

Purrball

And that precise number, backed up by a reputable source, is how many exactly?

DennisBergkamp

My source is my own eyes. What happens is my govt department will be replicated across all of them

Purrball

Then go work and live somewhere else. Seems you don't understand much about New Zealand's history and formation as a nation. Working in a government department, you should have a clear understanding of the significance of the treaty. After all, you are a public servant.

I'm an immigrant, just like you. But I don't expect the country I moved to (the UK) to accommodate the ideal way I would like to see things.

Sounds like whoever gave you an attitude, may have had a point, no matter how discourteously it was put. Suck it up and get over it.

barnsleymat

[QUOTE=Purrball;11261368]Then go work and live somewhere else.[QUOTE]

Kiwi alert

It's like a www.stuff.co.nz comment

Purrball

That's a fair point. However, it's not a Kiwi point per se.

If you emigrate somewhere, no matter where... France, Brazil, Japan, wherever, they're going to do things differently. Some of those things might be crap and could do with improving, but if you're going to move to New Zealand, work in the civil service, doing the people's work and get frustrated with your boss because he's smart enough to know how to handle things without fuss instead of making a mountain out of a molehill and then anonymously whine on a messgeboard about how hard you're done by and how downtrodden you are and how easy the Maori supposedly have it...

And if you don't understand or care about the importance of the treaty, as a civil servant, dismissing things as 'leading a waiata, blowing a shell once in a while and having lots of meetings with other Maori friends'...

...then perhaps it's reasonable to suggest that perhaps you're in the wrong line of work.

BlackCrossInResidence

Good post Dennis. Almost everyone I know feels the same way.

DennisBergkamp

I know more than most about NZ history...i work as an historian. That clause about principles of the treaty in most job descriptions is meaningless, other than giving the govt the opportunity to make jobs especially for Maori. Its effectively a quota system. The Treaty didnt say give Maori jobs for the sake of being Maori and allow them to abuse others who arent Maori. I am not saying all Maori interactions are like this. Most i have met are fine, but some have a serious problem that no amount of reparations can fix. Some people must live a very sheltered life to claim they only want to interact with Maori. A document from 174 years ago has hardly any relevance today, apart from the forced efforts of the NZ Govt. Waitangi Day is a disgrace. The way the PM gets treated, he should just not bother turning up. Its not a day of celebration, just a day of guilt. Sooner the Waitangi Tribunal is wrapped up the better.

It is important for prospective migrants to know that the international image of NZ having a great relationship with Maori is totally warped. It's no marriage made in heaven. More like a broken marriage with both parties having seperated.

Oh and with the complaint to my manager, after i kicked up a fuss he responded to the Maori complainant to say their behaviour was not on and if they have a 'real' issue take it up with the minister (like he/she would care). I was just annoyed that i had to force him to make that decision.

Purrball

I can't believe a serious historian would say such a thing. There's plenty of evidence of much older documents being placed at the heart of cultures and nations, from the US Constitution and bill of rights, to the Magna Carta and right back to the Torah. In the scheme of things, 176 years is nothing. The treaty was a treaty, not some over-running and mass slaughter of indigenous populations and herding them into reservations.

Anyway, as you can gather, I don't have much sympathy for your viewpoints or the way you've expressed them. Sorry about that.

(BTW: 6-0 at the Bridge earlier this year)

BEVS

I would have to go along with this . It is not what I wish to observe or think but I have to say , yes, this is how it is.

Jan n Neil

I have to agree with Denis I have witnessed it from the workers on the ground to Maori in very senior positions my wife was once accused of being an institutional racist because she dared to disagree with something a senior Maori was trying to push through and she is the only one there that actually has Maori staff

Neil

Blade Down Under

It's the same in Australia

The aborigines are by far the biggest bunch of racists I've ever come across. They're generally racist towards anyone that isn't an aborigine, I wonder how so many Australians can cope with them, being called white trash, pommy barstewards etc - they're treated so badly by them

I'm not some world class historian but it does beg the question as to why so many have a grudge over something that happened hundreds of years ago. It's 2014, not whatever year it was Captain Cook first set sail.

LauraNotts

I have yet to personally encounter such attitudes directed AT me but there does seem to be a general reluctance to engage in genuine interactions between Maori and Pakeha that aren't tinged by guilt or anger. As an immigrant I have specifically asked for some cultural training so that I can understand more and yet this still hasn't happened. That being said I do live in the South Island which is far less ethnically diverse than the NI.

The thing is I can understand exactly why they 'bear a grudge' 200 years later, especially the aborigines. A bunch of people rocked up and parked on land they'd held for thousands of years and proceeded to systematically exclude and persecute them. In the case of Maori they had the treaty and still they DID suffer marked injustice and maltreatment which many people still feel very angry about.

There are plenty of benefits that colonisation by Europeans has brought to the places we now call New Zealand and Australia, but at the same time we have to acknowledge the ongoing negative effects that this has had. I think it's flat out awesome that the Waitangi tribunal is trying sincerely to rectify the abuses that did happen, afterall, you didn't get the Romans or Vikings or French holding tribunals to apologise to us but I think there does need to be an acknowledgment from Maori and senior Maori leaders that the vast majority of non-Maori and Pakeha NZ people sincerely do want to live in a fair society that makes up for what happened in the past and are trying to make that happen.

We are all human beings. We won't really get anywhere until we acknowledge that.

DennisBergkamp

The Treaty isnt a piece of legislation, thank goodness for that. Its the liberal folk in NZ that created the "principles of the treaty" rubbish we have to suffer with now. The Waitangi Tribunal is more than enough of a concession to Maori, which is fair enough. Land was taken and should be given back with a limited amount of money if a serious greivance can be proved.They need to set a cut off point and get the claims out the way as soon as possible. Some Maori have been clever with the use of their reparations, such as devloping land in the Waikato (Te Rapa), good luck to them. Investing in the Warriors Rugby team wasnt so good for whichever tribe that was.

It's the attitude problem, jobs for Maori and token gestures i cant stand. Maori with no knowledge of their job getting promoted over more qualified people is what will lead to a real brain drain in NZ. Hard to feel sorry for Maori if they are as prejudiced as the people who colonised them in 1840. They should be subject to the same expectations and laws as any other person in NZ. Their culture being treated the same as anyone elses. Chinese and Indian culture is equally as important to NZ as Maori culture. They will out number Maori one day.

I feel like supporting Winston Peters more and more each day! And i'm not even 65!