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Returning to the Uk for university

Returning to the Uk for university

Old Jan 18th 2007, 11:02 pm
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Default Returning to the Uk for university

This is my first post on these forums, and I’m hoping that someone will be able to offer me some advice about returning back to the UK for university.

My family and myself moved out to NZ in October 2005, and so far things have been a bit up and down. I’m just about to turn 18 and start my final year at school, and have begun to think about my future educational plans. Up until the age of 16 I had been in the UK, and was a citizen, as well as both of my parents. We now have permanent residence in NZ.

My initial plan was to return back to the UK for university, working for a few months before starting my degree in September/October 2008. After some general browsing on the Internet I have encountered a number of problems, which upon looking at some posts on this forum seem to have been experienced by others in my position. The main problem so far is that it appears I will be classed as an international student, and thus have to pay in excess of quadruple the home fees.

As of yet the rest of my family are undecided on whether they will also return back to the UK. If they do choose to return to the UK I will be left in the position of either staying on my own in NZ for 3-4 years, or seemingly paying the exorbitant international student fees.

I have contacted the educational department of my local British council who confirmed that to usually be considered for home fees you have to of been resident in the UK for 3 years previous to the start of your course. However they said that an exception would be made if we were only temporarily out of the country (a grey area according to him). Of course the definition of temporary is to be decided upon the university, where they will look at the length of time out of the country, whether a home has been maintained in the UK, and the nature of my parents jobs. Unfortunately we no longer have a home in the UK, although our relatives still live there, my mother has a permanent job, whilst my dad’s is temporary but likely to be extended. There also lies the problem that the universities won’t decide on my fee status until after I apply through UCAS after September 2007. So until then there is no way of knowing whether I will be classed as a home student by none, some or all of the 6 universities I apply to.

Has anyone else experienced these kind of problems, and how did you proceed. My grandparents from the UK our currently staying with us, so when they return I hope they will be able to sort something out. My grandmother works for the CAB so she’s going to see if there is a way around it, but I’m not too hopeful. If not looks like I’ll be pinning my hopes on an extremely unlikely scholarship.

Thanks in advance

James
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Old Jan 18th 2007, 11:14 pm
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Default Re: Returning to the Uk for university

Originally Posted by HerbieDog View Post
This is my first post on these forums, and I’m hoping that someone will be able to offer me some advice about returning back to the UK for university.

My family and myself moved out to NZ in October 2005, and so far things have been a bit up and down. I’m just about to turn 18 and start my final year at school, and have begun to think about my future educational plans. Up until the age of 16 I had been in the UK, and was a citizen, as well as both of my parents. We now have permanent residence in NZ.

My initial plan was to return back to the UK for university, working for a few months before starting my degree in September/October 2008. After some general browsing on the Internet I have encountered a number of problems, which upon looking at some posts on this forum seem to have been experienced by others in my position. The main problem so far is that it appears I will be classed as an international student, and thus have to pay in excess of quadruple the home fees.

As of yet the rest of my family are undecided on whether they will also return back to the UK. If they do choose to return to the UK I will be left in the position of either staying on my own in NZ for 3-4 years, or seemingly paying the exorbitant international student fees.

I have contacted the educational department of my local British council who confirmed that to usually be considered for home fees you have to of been resident in the UK for 3 years previous to the start of your course. However they said that an exception would be made if we were only temporarily out of the country (a grey area according to him). Of course the definition of temporary is to be decided upon the university, where they will look at the length of time out of the country, whether a home has been maintained in the UK, and the nature of my parents jobs. Unfortunately we no longer have a home in the UK, although our relatives still live there, my mother has a permanent job, whilst my dad’s is temporary but likely to be extended. There also lies the problem that the universities won’t decide on my fee status until after I apply through UCAS after September 2007. So until then there is no way of knowing whether I will be classed as a home student by none, some or all of the 6 universities I apply to.

Has anyone else experienced these kind of problems, and how did you proceed. My grandparents from the UK our currently staying with us, so when they return I hope they will be able to sort something out. My grandmother works for the CAB so she’s going to see if there is a way around it, but I’m not too hopeful. If not looks like I’ll be pinning my hopes on an extremely unlikely scholarship.

Thanks in advance

James
I'm sorry I don't really have an answer for you and I'm going through a similar thing at the moment (well, that's an exaggeration as I've actually halted all proceedings due to the fact that I got scared about exactly what you have written about). But I feel for you, education is so important and sometimes the powers that be make it very difficult to get one. Good luck, hope it works out.
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Old Jan 19th 2007, 5:16 am
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Default Re: Returning to the Uk for university

Bugger!
A UK citizen and yet you are filed under International fees - sounds like the Uni fees system is taking you for a ride.
Good luck which ever decision you make.
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Old Jan 19th 2007, 6:12 am
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Default Re: Returning to the Uk for university

My thoughts exactly. So what my parents haven't paid tax /National Insurance in the UK for 2 years, they paid it for 30 odd years previously. Anyway if we do all return, they will again start paying NI, so surely that should cover my university fees.

It's so infuriating, every time I write to the universities they just give me the same old response, think they just want some extra money, tbh.
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Old Jan 19th 2007, 6:25 am
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Default Re: Returning to the Uk for university

Just had a quick search on google and found this site, the last post seems to offer some hope:http://www.newmediamedicine.com/foru...hp/t-4071.html

HI - I have been out of the country since 1999 - so more than 3 years - but I completed a questionaire for Brighton and explained that I was married to an Australian that was in temporary employment (doing a Phd - has an end date) abroad - in Australia. This also applies to parents - but they must (I think) be able to show it is employment of a temporary nature. Who is to say what is temporary and what is permanent - a letter to say you always intended to return or they always intended to return may sufice. I also got my Local Education Authority to accept that my absence was temporary and included this letter with my questionaire. They eventually accepted that I was a UK student (many faxes and emails later) and allowed me to apply - as they only accept UK students.
Good luck.
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Old Jan 19th 2007, 7:49 am
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Default Re: Returning to the Uk for university

Originally Posted by HerbieDog View Post
my parents haven't paid tax /National Insurance in the UK for 2 years, they paid it for 30 odd years previously.
I would have thought that this is exactly the type of information that would be taken into account when looking into the grey area re: the definition of 'temporary'.

The fact you haven't been in NZ that long is on your side.

Someone on the OZ forum has just fought this in Scotland and won fyi - maybe worth doing a search. I know the 'rules' are slightly different though.

Also, whether or not your parents return will not matter re: the home vs international fees fyi.

Finally, I wanted to say that I thought your post was very eloquently written and I wish you all the best. Nothing to lose in going for it (apart from a fair bit of angst I'm sure!!) so I would say take the leap of faith and fight for the home fees. Good luck.

Finally - thought about writing to Tony Blair or the Education secretary directly? Or how about something positive in the British press for a change? I think you have a huge advantage in that you can put forward your situation well.
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Old Jan 19th 2007, 7:53 am
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Default Re: Returning to the Uk for university

Thanks a lot UK + Kiwi. I'll definitely have a search for the person from Oz, see if they are willing to contact me about how they went about it. I agree its definitely something worth fighting for, so I'll probably send an email/letter to my old MP in Herefordshire, and maybe take it further.

Once again thanks for cheering me up everyone.

Last edited by HerbieDog; Jan 19th 2007 at 7:58 am.
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Old Jan 19th 2007, 7:59 am
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Default Re: Returning to the Uk for university

I've just had a very quick look for that post in the OZ forums but can't see it. You wouldn't by chance remember part of the post title, the posters name or the approximate date.

Last edited by HerbieDog; Jan 19th 2007 at 8:07 am.
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Old Jan 19th 2007, 8:08 am
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Default Re: Returning to the Uk for university

Originally Posted by HerbieDog View Post
Thanks a lot UK + Kiwi. I'll definitely have a search for the person from Oz, see if they are willing to contact me about how they went about it. I agree its definitely something worth fighting for, so I'll probably send an email/letter to my old MP in Herefordshire, and maybe take it further.

Once again thanks for cheering me up everyone.
good luck hope you get the home fees & into your 1st choice uni
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Old Jan 19th 2007, 9:27 am
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Default Re: Returning to the Uk for university

Hello Herbiedog
It's partly to stop foreign students coming over to boarding school then thinking they can get free uni education- they can't.

The 'grey' area is that if you can prove your father was working for a British company overseas on a temp. basis the uni / local authority will still pay for you in most cases.

We lived in Singapore for 6 yrs and decided not to risk it so returned to UK for our son to be in UK and us to be living here 3 yrs before he went to a UK uni.

It's a tough law but it's there to stop non Brits abusing the system.
Unfortunately Brit expats also get caught out.
BUT I knew of some expats in Asia whose kids retuned to uk for uni and didn't pay overseas rates.

If you are now a PR in NZ you will probably not be able to claim a uni education.

....or consider this as a last resort if you're really keen....you return to UK work for 3 yrs yourself get a tax number etc then go to uni there.
Good luck
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Old Jan 19th 2007, 12:15 pm
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Default Re: Returning to the Uk for university

Originally Posted by HerbieDog View Post
I've just had a very quick look for that post in the OZ forums but can't see it. You wouldn't by chance remember part of the post title, the posters name or the approximate date.
Hello,

Not sure if this is the thread I was remembering, but have a look at a thread entitled "Education Worries" (July 2006) in the "moving back to the uk" forum (sorry not Aus as I thought).

A poster named Jockomalay may be worth contacting. Not sure if he is who I was thinking of as being successful against the Scottish LEA or not, but worth contact I would think.

Sorry - I don't know how to link the thread, but I'm sure you'll find it by typing in the thread title into the search tool within the right forum!

Good luck - Carmen
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Old Jan 19th 2007, 12:56 pm
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Default Re: Returning to the Uk for university

Originally Posted by helinuk View Post
Hello Herbiedog
It's a tough law but it's there to stop non Brits abusing the system.
Unfortunately Brit expats also get caught out.
It's intentionally there to stop long term British expatriates (who are not subject to UK income tax) obtaining a service paid for by British taxpayers. The NHS isn't available to Britons overseas either.

Also, bear in mind that British citizens can also come from the Crown Dependencies and British Overseas Territories. These don't get access to home fees either, unless they qualify for assistance from their territorial government.

Most US states and Canadian provinces restrict the lowest tuition rates to residents of that state/province.

In the UK, there is a work-around that's ok for some - distance learning, such as a degree from the Open University or University of London (External) - may not be subject to the 3 year residence rule.

....or consider this as a last resort if you're really keen....you return to UK work for 3 yrs yourself get a tax number etc then go to uni there.
Good luck
If a PR in New Zealand, it would probably make more sense to go to a good New Zealand university (eg Auckland or Otago), get New Zealand citizenship and then decide where you want to be in life.

Last edited by JAJ; Jan 19th 2007 at 1:10 pm.
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Old Jan 19th 2007, 10:38 pm
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Default Re: Returning to the Uk for university

Originally Posted by JAJ View Post
It's intentionally there to stop long term British expatriates (who are not subject to UK income tax) obtaining a service paid for by British taxpayers. The NHS isn't available to Britons overseas either.

Also, bear in mind that British citizens can also come from the Crown Dependencies and British Overseas Territories. These don't get access to home fees either, unless they qualify for assistance from their territorial government.

Most US states and Canadian provinces restrict the lowest tuition rates to residents of that state/province.

In the UK, there is a work-around that's ok for some - distance learning, such as a degree from the Open University or University of London (External) - may not be subject to the 3 year residence rule.



If a PR in New Zealand, it would probably make more sense to go to a good New Zealand university (eg Auckland or Otago), get New Zealand citizenship and then decide where you want to be in life.
This is an interesting quandry and respect to you HerbieDog for a thread so well put. Hope my kids turn out half as clued up as you!

On a slight tangent would this be the same problem to our kids if they wanted to return to the UK for Further Education, which I am thinking they might, they basically have "Dual Citizenship?" We will have been living in NZ for 4 years by the time the eldest may want to return to UK to study? So again no taxes paid in UK for that period?
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Old Jan 20th 2007, 1:07 am
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Default Re: Returning to the Uk for university

Yes, I think he would be in the same boat as me. Because he won't of been resident in the country for 3 years previous to the start of the course, they should class him as an international sudent.
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Old Jan 20th 2007, 7:07 am
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Default Re: Returning to the Uk for university

Originally Posted by Am Loolah View Post
On a slight tangent would this be the same problem to our kids if they wanted to return to the UK for Further Education, which I am thinking they might, they basically have "Dual Citizenship?" We will have been living in NZ for 4 years by the time the eldest may want to return to UK to study? So again no taxes paid in UK for that period?
Sadly yes. It's because the home vs international decision is based on residency.

Also, since most people in NZ (on NZ wages) cannot afford the UK international uni fees (unless they become part of the migrating budget for example if that is even possible from a financial point of view), the option to return to the UK for tertiary education isn't actually an option in reality.
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