Removal Disaster - advice pls!
May 2nd 2008, 6:21 am
#16
Forum Regular
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Auckland
Posts: 73
Re: Removal Disaster - advice pls!
I am so sorry to hear this, I really feel for you. Here is me going on in another thread how well our move went and how we got our furniture yesterday. I bet you thought I was rubbing salt into the wounds, I didn't know what had happened to you. Sorry and I hope it works out for you.
May 2nd 2008, 6:29 am
#17
Account Closed
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 503
Re: Removal Disaster - advice pls!
Sorry to hear about this.
I'm wondering if you insured your belongings, and whether the insurance would cover you in this instance.
Hope you get it sorted soon,
M
I'm wondering if you insured your belongings, and whether the insurance would cover you in this instance.
Hope you get it sorted soon,
M
May 2nd 2008, 10:39 am
#18
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Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: permanently locked down
Posts: 733
Re: Removal Disaster - advice pls!
I am so sorry, this is an absolute nightmare for you.
Do you have the money?
What I mean is, if you were able to pay them now to get your belongings, would you then be in a position to get it back when the company here is paid by the administrator?
I think we should all do a whip round - seriously - every little would help.
I wish I had a better answer for you as I can hardly imagine what a horrible start in NZ it is for you.
Do you have the money?
What I mean is, if you were able to pay them now to get your belongings, would you then be in a position to get it back when the company here is paid by the administrator?
I think we should all do a whip round - seriously - every little would help.
I wish I had a better answer for you as I can hardly imagine what a horrible start in NZ it is for you.
The initial legal advice I've taken not surprisingly suggests that the Y the UK removal party contracted for the international shipping by the X removals company who I dealt with have no rights to withhold my goods. However it's complicated by the fact that they're based in England, and that they Y have asked the NZ removals agency to hold my goods until payment from the administrator, so it will be a long legal process.
I'm am resigned to paying the NZ removals company direct, but my problem is that I've not yet been able to find out whether they are paid the removals company I contracted and who have gone into administration of Y the party handling the shipping. If it's the latter, I can see at i'll have difficulty getting the goods released without legal action, as no doubt they will have additional business with Y and be put under pressure from them.
I just think it's disgusting that Y is refusing to release my shipment already in NZ, holding my goods will not influence the amount they get from the administrators. They are effecting blackmailing me to pay them direct. I'm already unsecured creditor of the UK removals company, as whatever happens I'll need to pay the NZ leg again.
In reference to a previous poster I took out out insurance for the value of my shipment but it specifically excludes costs from the bankruptcy of any party. I'll need to speak to them shortly also, and advise them that my goods are being withheld, I just hope they aren't going to charge me more in insurance too.
I'll see if receive any reply from BAR, but it is mainly a domestic organisation so I'm not too hopeful.
My initial option is to threaten legal action action against Y the UK party handling the shipping and holding goods that do belong to them or the party in administration. I'll also look to send charges them charges for costs I'm incurring as part of them illegally withholding my goods.
May 2nd 2008, 12:37 pm
#19
Account Closed
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 503
Re: Removal Disaster - advice pls!
Pixi, that's really kind idea, but it would be unfair to take it up, as there's no guarantee of getting anything from the administrators, and that would be unfair to you and others.
The initial legal advice I've taken not surprisingly suggests that the Y the UK removal party contracted for the international shipping by the X removals company who I dealt with have no rights to withhold my goods. However it's complicated by the fact that they're based in England, and that they Y have asked the NZ removals agency to hold my goods until payment from the administrator, so it will be a long legal process.
I'm am resigned to paying the NZ removals company direct, but my problem is that I've not yet been able to find out whether they are paid the removals company I contracted and who have gone into administration of Y the party handling the shipping. If it's the latter, I can see at i'll have difficulty getting the goods released without legal action, as no doubt they will have additional business with Y and be put under pressure from them.
I just think it's disgusting that Y is refusing to release my shipment already in NZ, holding my goods will not influence the amount they get from the administrators. They are effecting blackmailing me to pay them direct. I'm already unsecured creditor of the UK removals company, as whatever happens I'll need to pay the NZ leg again.
In reference to a previous poster I took out out insurance for the value of my shipment but it specifically excludes costs from the bankruptcy of any party. I'll need to speak to them shortly also, and advise them that my goods are being withheld, I just hope they aren't going to charge me more in insurance too.
I'll see if receive any reply from BAR, but it is mainly a domestic organisation so I'm not too hopeful.
My initial option is to threaten legal action action against Y the UK party handling the shipping and holding goods that do belong to them or the party in administration. I'll also look to send charges them charges for costs I'm incurring as part of them illegally withholding my goods.
The initial legal advice I've taken not surprisingly suggests that the Y the UK removal party contracted for the international shipping by the X removals company who I dealt with have no rights to withhold my goods. However it's complicated by the fact that they're based in England, and that they Y have asked the NZ removals agency to hold my goods until payment from the administrator, so it will be a long legal process.
I'm am resigned to paying the NZ removals company direct, but my problem is that I've not yet been able to find out whether they are paid the removals company I contracted and who have gone into administration of Y the party handling the shipping. If it's the latter, I can see at i'll have difficulty getting the goods released without legal action, as no doubt they will have additional business with Y and be put under pressure from them.
I just think it's disgusting that Y is refusing to release my shipment already in NZ, holding my goods will not influence the amount they get from the administrators. They are effecting blackmailing me to pay them direct. I'm already unsecured creditor of the UK removals company, as whatever happens I'll need to pay the NZ leg again.
In reference to a previous poster I took out out insurance for the value of my shipment but it specifically excludes costs from the bankruptcy of any party. I'll need to speak to them shortly also, and advise them that my goods are being withheld, I just hope they aren't going to charge me more in insurance too.
I'll see if receive any reply from BAR, but it is mainly a domestic organisation so I'm not too hopeful.
My initial option is to threaten legal action action against Y the UK party handling the shipping and holding goods that do belong to them or the party in administration. I'll also look to send charges them charges for costs I'm incurring as part of them illegally withholding my goods.
Don't know if this will help, but there is a poster in Australia forum caller "Mr Mover" he appears to know his stuff, and it may well be worth your while contacting him to see if he has any advice he can give.
So very sorry for the predicament you find yourself in.
M
May 3rd 2008, 8:03 am
#20
lionheart
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: papamoa
Posts: 571
Re: Removal Disaster - advice pls!
I'm having a disaster with my removals. All was well and the container arrived in New Zealand in Tauranga last sunday and delivery arranged to Auckland thursday.
I then heard on tuesday prior from the NZ removal partners that missing documents were holding it up, and with the anzac weekend delivery was re-arranged for this tuesday.
Monday this week this was cancelled as the missing documents hadn't turned up, I find out it is a bill of lading, and started chasing up in the UK with my removals company X on monday night here. I was told all necessary docs were provided, I said clearly this wasn't the case and asked to be called back. No call back was received, so I emailed the next day and made calls last night tuesday, each time being promised a call back.
Now this morning I finally received an email response that the company had gone into administration on Friday 26th April, with a tel no. for the administrator.
Well I've made slight progress since, managing to get the paperwork through, and the goods cleared in port, so they are no longer raking up storage charges there. The problem is they are being held by the New Zealand mover on behalf of the UK Shipping Exporter Y who my removals agent contracted and instead incurring charges there, and will not be released until the UK Shipping Exporter and the NZ removals company are paid from the adminstrator.
I have tonight contacted the adminstrator and currently waiting a call back and have also spoken to the Shipping Exporter Y in London. The latter tell me they are holding the container until they get payment from the adminstrator, they will release the container if I pay them directly - approx GBP2k.
The NZ removals co haven't been paid too, so there's their costs too.
The container that's been held contains goods which do not belong to them, this to me sounds like blackmail, the container is incurring daily extra charges which no doubt I'll suffer. The delay will not effect the amount they Shipping Exporter Y will get from the administrator.
I've pointed this out to them, but they come back and said if they don't get the money from the administrator they will seek to recover it from me!!
This is turning into a absolute nightmare.
In the interim the UK removals company continues to trade on the same tel no. under a different name.
I then heard on tuesday prior from the NZ removal partners that missing documents were holding it up, and with the anzac weekend delivery was re-arranged for this tuesday.
Monday this week this was cancelled as the missing documents hadn't turned up, I find out it is a bill of lading, and started chasing up in the UK with my removals company X on monday night here. I was told all necessary docs were provided, I said clearly this wasn't the case and asked to be called back. No call back was received, so I emailed the next day and made calls last night tuesday, each time being promised a call back.
Now this morning I finally received an email response that the company had gone into administration on Friday 26th April, with a tel no. for the administrator.
Well I've made slight progress since, managing to get the paperwork through, and the goods cleared in port, so they are no longer raking up storage charges there. The problem is they are being held by the New Zealand mover on behalf of the UK Shipping Exporter Y who my removals agent contracted and instead incurring charges there, and will not be released until the UK Shipping Exporter and the NZ removals company are paid from the adminstrator.
I have tonight contacted the adminstrator and currently waiting a call back and have also spoken to the Shipping Exporter Y in London. The latter tell me they are holding the container until they get payment from the adminstrator, they will release the container if I pay them directly - approx GBP2k.
The NZ removals co haven't been paid too, so there's their costs too.
The container that's been held contains goods which do not belong to them, this to me sounds like blackmail, the container is incurring daily extra charges which no doubt I'll suffer. The delay will not effect the amount they Shipping Exporter Y will get from the administrator.
I've pointed this out to them, but they come back and said if they don't get the money from the administrator they will seek to recover it from me!!
This is turning into a absolute nightmare.
In the interim the UK removals company continues to trade on the same tel no. under a different name.
This sounds awful and you have my sympathies, we also had some problems with our shippers agents here in tauranga. This was also a delay between the shippers ans customs.Luckily i was able to find out that this was mainly due to a clash of personalities between one of the shiper's agents and a customs officer. We managed to get the resultant fess reduced by 50% by threatening to produce emails from the customs officer confirming the shipper's errors.
One question is did you pay for the removals by credit card or cheque? because if you payed by card them the credit card company may have some responsibilty.
May 3rd 2008, 10:59 am
#21
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: Auckland
Posts: 59
Re: Removal Disaster - advice pls!
Hi there,
That's what I thought about BAR, however that was most definitely not the case when we tried getting them involved in our complaint. I know we're not allowed to leave bad feedback for any particular organisation in here, so I'll just state a simple fact - the removal companies pay membership fees to the BAR.
Now onto some good advice to anyone here organising their move, which can help them avoid such nightmares as this one. No matter where you're going from & to - it's simple - just MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE SAME COMPANY AT EACH END & check their reputation. Forget BAR membership, private message people in here and find out about diff companies. If you use the same company all the way through you wont have any problems at NZ end, as there's a great thing called a Disputes Tribunal - $20 and you can have the remover in Court.
Also what we experienced, and I've heard this from others too, a lot of movers promise you they will unpack when you get the quote in the UK but when you get here they refuse to unpack. That is another good reason for using the same company each end, then you have some sort of comeback.
Another thing is that removal companies can be nasty when they're in the UK & you're all this way away. They feel untouchable, and in a lot of regards, are. Again, this is why it's so important to use the same company each end.
Sorry to hear of yet someone else having problems, I wish I had more time to come in here and give people this simple bit of advice. I can highly recommend Crown Relocations who have moved us twice since our awful & shocking experience with the first company, and they are in my view worth the extra dollars. They are much more professional and careful, although a sting in the pocket you can't have it all ways unfortunately!
That's what I thought about BAR, however that was most definitely not the case when we tried getting them involved in our complaint. I know we're not allowed to leave bad feedback for any particular organisation in here, so I'll just state a simple fact - the removal companies pay membership fees to the BAR.
Now onto some good advice to anyone here organising their move, which can help them avoid such nightmares as this one. No matter where you're going from & to - it's simple - just MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE SAME COMPANY AT EACH END & check their reputation. Forget BAR membership, private message people in here and find out about diff companies. If you use the same company all the way through you wont have any problems at NZ end, as there's a great thing called a Disputes Tribunal - $20 and you can have the remover in Court.
Also what we experienced, and I've heard this from others too, a lot of movers promise you they will unpack when you get the quote in the UK but when you get here they refuse to unpack. That is another good reason for using the same company each end, then you have some sort of comeback.
Another thing is that removal companies can be nasty when they're in the UK & you're all this way away. They feel untouchable, and in a lot of regards, are. Again, this is why it's so important to use the same company each end.
Sorry to hear of yet someone else having problems, I wish I had more time to come in here and give people this simple bit of advice. I can highly recommend Crown Relocations who have moved us twice since our awful & shocking experience with the first company, and they are in my view worth the extra dollars. They are much more professional and careful, although a sting in the pocket you can't have it all ways unfortunately!
May 3rd 2008, 11:44 am
#22
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,967
Re: Removal Disaster - advice pls!
Hi there,
That's what I thought about BAR, however that was most definitely not the case when we tried getting them involved in our complaint. I know we're not allowed to leave bad feedback for any particular organisation in here, so I'll just state a simple fact - the removal companies pay membership fees to the BAR.
Now onto some good advice to anyone here organising their move, which can help them avoid such nightmares as this one. No matter where you're going from & to - it's simple - just MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE SAME COMPANY AT EACH END & check their reputation. Forget BAR membership, private message people in here and find out about diff companies. If you use the same company all the way through you wont have any problems at NZ end, as there's a great thing called a Disputes Tribunal - $20 and you can have the remover in Court.
Also what we experienced, and I've heard this from others too, a lot of movers promise you they will unpack when you get the quote in the UK but when you get here they refuse to unpack. That is another good reason for using the same company each end, then you have some sort of comeback.
Another thing is that removal companies can be nasty when they're in the UK & you're all this way away. They feel untouchable, and in a lot of regards, are. Again, this is why it's so important to use the same company each end.
Sorry to hear of yet someone else having problems, I wish I had more time to come in here and give people this simple bit of advice. I can highly recommend Crown Relocations who have moved us twice since our awful & shocking experience with the first company, and they are in my view worth the extra dollars. They are much more professional and careful, although a sting in the pocket you can't have it all ways unfortunately!
That's what I thought about BAR, however that was most definitely not the case when we tried getting them involved in our complaint. I know we're not allowed to leave bad feedback for any particular organisation in here, so I'll just state a simple fact - the removal companies pay membership fees to the BAR.
Now onto some good advice to anyone here organising their move, which can help them avoid such nightmares as this one. No matter where you're going from & to - it's simple - just MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE SAME COMPANY AT EACH END & check their reputation. Forget BAR membership, private message people in here and find out about diff companies. If you use the same company all the way through you wont have any problems at NZ end, as there's a great thing called a Disputes Tribunal - $20 and you can have the remover in Court.
Also what we experienced, and I've heard this from others too, a lot of movers promise you they will unpack when you get the quote in the UK but when you get here they refuse to unpack. That is another good reason for using the same company each end, then you have some sort of comeback.
Another thing is that removal companies can be nasty when they're in the UK & you're all this way away. They feel untouchable, and in a lot of regards, are. Again, this is why it's so important to use the same company each end.
Sorry to hear of yet someone else having problems, I wish I had more time to come in here and give people this simple bit of advice. I can highly recommend Crown Relocations who have moved us twice since our awful & shocking experience with the first company, and they are in my view worth the extra dollars. They are much more professional and careful, although a sting in the pocket you can't have it all ways unfortunately!
May 4th 2008, 6:21 am
#23
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: In a large village called Auckland
Posts: 5,249
Re: Removal Disaster - advice pls!
Like most trade associations, there will be a fee that has to be paid to become a member, but they should still be required to perform to certain criteria and standards to maintain their member status.
The majority of people it seems, myself included, are more than happy to do our own unpacking at our leisure, despite having the un-packing service included. I think the removal companies have become a tad blase to this and are a bit taken aback when requested to do the full unpack. Remembering, that many people are renting when they first arrive and don't require the full unpack and will just need a few boxes opened.
Our guys were totally brilliant they did everything we wanted them to do, we directed them where to put the individually itemised boxes and then they gave us assistance unpacking the big stuff, beds, sofas etc - we like many others most certainly did not want them there all day getting in our way. So yes a little unfair to say all removal companies are crap because they didn't do the full unpacking bit.
Unfortunately, it is a risky business, dealing with so many different companies and people, getting your stuff sent 12,000 miles overseas and there's ample opportunites for things to go wrong from time to time. Unfortunately, as in the OPs case, some poor beggar has to bear the brunt with their personal possessions and is being held to ransom through no fault of ther own. It is a crying shame that this company cannot be named, because sure as eggs they will be up and running again.
There is only one company I know that does the end to end service (mentioned above) and they do charge top dollar - they too are not guaranteed to be trouble-free. So much depends on expectation, who you get on the day, how busy they are etc.
The majority of people it seems, myself included, are more than happy to do our own unpacking at our leisure, despite having the un-packing service included. I think the removal companies have become a tad blase to this and are a bit taken aback when requested to do the full unpack. Remembering, that many people are renting when they first arrive and don't require the full unpack and will just need a few boxes opened.
Our guys were totally brilliant they did everything we wanted them to do, we directed them where to put the individually itemised boxes and then they gave us assistance unpacking the big stuff, beds, sofas etc - we like many others most certainly did not want them there all day getting in our way. So yes a little unfair to say all removal companies are crap because they didn't do the full unpacking bit.
Unfortunately, it is a risky business, dealing with so many different companies and people, getting your stuff sent 12,000 miles overseas and there's ample opportunites for things to go wrong from time to time. Unfortunately, as in the OPs case, some poor beggar has to bear the brunt with their personal possessions and is being held to ransom through no fault of ther own. It is a crying shame that this company cannot be named, because sure as eggs they will be up and running again.
There is only one company I know that does the end to end service (mentioned above) and they do charge top dollar - they too are not guaranteed to be trouble-free. So much depends on expectation, who you get on the day, how busy they are etc.
May 4th 2008, 9:02 am
#24
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: Auckland
Posts: 59
Re: Removal Disaster - advice pls!
Sorry but I think I'm allowed my opinion mate! And you're entitled to yours too but hey I only came on here to try and help people. I'm only glad you didn't have the nightmare we did, or you may just find yourself feeling like all removal companies are scum too if you'd gone through what we did (!)
When I speak from experience and that I've heard from a lot of others, just to explain I had a 9+ month nightmare & thought my advice was relevant. You only find out the problems when it hits the fan, not when you have a nice smooth move (you lucky folks that do!)
Fact - if the removal firm is not in the country of destination your hands are tied. Our complaint went way beyond unpacking believe me, but the removal firm in question got very nasty with us & lied to us and about us. And now I'm not allowed to name them or leave them bad feedback anywhere, as last time i did they wrote to the mod and threatened us all with legal action. So forgive me if I didn't explain myself properly in the first instance, they have tied my hands so to speak (!)
I think giving people this information is an extremely good starting point when considering moving overseas. You obviously couldn't have had any idea of the nightmare we had and the relevance of my advice, but believe you me, getting the company in your destination country is worth it, and worth the extra dollars to use Crown as we have done since (in our experience). We were considering using Crown in the UK but decided not to because of something the company we ended up using told us about them (probably fabicated in retrospect), and because they were more pricey. I've moved with them twice since they are much more professional, on the phone, packing, unpacking, but only domestic removals. Nothing has been too much of a problem with them here in NZ. Do they have problems sometimes. No doubt like every other remover, but they are here and I can speak to them / take action if it's serious - that's all I'm saying. Trying to save some poor barsteward from a similar fate.
When I speak from experience and that I've heard from a lot of others, just to explain I had a 9+ month nightmare & thought my advice was relevant. You only find out the problems when it hits the fan, not when you have a nice smooth move (you lucky folks that do!)
Fact - if the removal firm is not in the country of destination your hands are tied. Our complaint went way beyond unpacking believe me, but the removal firm in question got very nasty with us & lied to us and about us. And now I'm not allowed to name them or leave them bad feedback anywhere, as last time i did they wrote to the mod and threatened us all with legal action. So forgive me if I didn't explain myself properly in the first instance, they have tied my hands so to speak (!)
I think giving people this information is an extremely good starting point when considering moving overseas. You obviously couldn't have had any idea of the nightmare we had and the relevance of my advice, but believe you me, getting the company in your destination country is worth it, and worth the extra dollars to use Crown as we have done since (in our experience). We were considering using Crown in the UK but decided not to because of something the company we ended up using told us about them (probably fabicated in retrospect), and because they were more pricey. I've moved with them twice since they are much more professional, on the phone, packing, unpacking, but only domestic removals. Nothing has been too much of a problem with them here in NZ. Do they have problems sometimes. No doubt like every other remover, but they are here and I can speak to them / take action if it's serious - that's all I'm saying. Trying to save some poor barsteward from a similar fate.
Sophie, I don't think you can generalise like that. It seems that everyone has different experiences even with the same companies. A lot depends on the local team of packers in the UK and also the team this end. In my experience , the removal company I used in the UK were fantastic as were the company that brought my container to the house AND unpacked AND put beds together etc. Yet other people have had problems with the same companies. At the end of the day it's the luck of the draw with how good each company is and getting the same company both ends is no guarantee.
May 4th 2008, 1:13 pm
#25
you dewty owld maan!
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: is practically perfect in every way
Posts: 5,565
Re: Removal Disaster - advice pls!
all I can think of is Crown and maybe Allied/P............if they still exist ??
not really much of a choice there then..........certainly makes it hard for the three quotes that most people would go for
many many people get good service with the other options and some people get bad service with Crown, etc - pays your money.......
May 4th 2008, 6:33 pm
#26
lionheart
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: papamoa
Posts: 571
Re: Removal Disaster - advice pls!
using a remover with their own people in NZ kinda limits the choice though don't you think?
all I can think of is Crown and maybe Allied/P............if they still exist ??
not really much of a choice there then..........certainly makes it hard for the three quotes that most people would go for
many many people get good service with the other options and some people get bad service with Crown, etc - pays your money.......
all I can think of is Crown and maybe Allied/P............if they still exist ??
not really much of a choice there then..........certainly makes it hard for the three quotes that most people would go for
many many people get good service with the other options and some people get bad service with Crown, etc - pays your money.......
May 5th 2008, 10:37 pm
#27
you dewty owld maan!
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: is practically perfect in every way
Posts: 5,565
Re: Removal Disaster - advice pls!
[QUOTE=howden40;6306873]we used allied pickfords generally ok .....QUOTE]didn't Pickfords in UK go bust recently ---- or am I confusing them with someone else???
we used Britannia - local franchise, were good in UK but NZ end were less careful.
Also they failed to do some steam cleaning but MAFF were fine at this end - phew.....
we used Britannia - local franchise, were good in UK but NZ end were less careful.
Also they failed to do some steam cleaning but MAFF were fine at this end - phew.....
May 6th 2008, 3:26 am
#28
A land far far away
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Northland
Posts: 1,288
Re: Removal Disaster - advice pls!
We used Crown, and this end they used United. Could be cos we are very far north, but I'm not complaining at all, we found the United guys on the day to be amazing. But it's just to point out that Crown can use different people this end.
May 6th 2008, 5:11 am
#29
you dewty owld maan!
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: is practically perfect in every way
Posts: 5,565
Re: Removal Disaster - advice pls!
May 6th 2008, 7:30 am
#30
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: Auckland
Posts: 59
Re: Removal Disaster - advice pls!
People can make their own decisions at the end of the day based on the facts, it's all a matter of risk and how much you're prepared to take. There may well be many people that get good service, all I'm saying I guess is if you don't have the company both ends you will be completely *****ed from a legal standpoint and could lose thousands in the event of major problems. I was threatened, defamed and lied to / about by a mainstream removal firm, because they felt untouchable on the UK. All I can do now is try and warn people of the pitfalls. People are free to book one of the cheaper ones and cross their fingers. I know what I'd do given a second chance
It's not all doom and gloom though, on the bright side of things at least our shipment didn't fall off the boat (although from ythe look of our stuff you'd have thought it had roflmao)
Good luck to all of you organising your move, I don't envy you
It's not all doom and gloom though, on the bright side of things at least our shipment didn't fall off the boat (although from ythe look of our stuff you'd have thought it had roflmao)
Good luck to all of you organising your move, I don't envy you
using a remover with their own people in NZ kinda limits the choice though don't you think?
all I can think of is Crown and maybe Allied/P............if they still exist ??
not really much of a choice there then..........certainly makes it hard for the three quotes that most people would go for
many many people get good service with the other options and some people get bad service with Crown, etc - pays your money.......
all I can think of is Crown and maybe Allied/P............if they still exist ??
not really much of a choice there then..........certainly makes it hard for the three quotes that most people would go for
many many people get good service with the other options and some people get bad service with Crown, etc - pays your money.......