Charismatic

As you may be aware New Zealand has started to supply aid to Ukraine to support the Russo-Ukrainian war effort.

Charismatic

I put in that we should provide more material support. While I would normally reserve this to humanitarian support only given New Zealands international stance it's become clear that diplomatic efforts with Russia are proving futile and evidence of war crimes are mounting. Having exhausted all other reasonable options I'm happy for New Zealand to provide whatever assistance we can (including military aid or training for Ukrainians) to expedite the end to this conflict.

If there is to be no ceasefire, either to allow talks or civilians to evacuate conflict zones, then I think we must support the swift and decisive military action required to roll-back the Russian occupation. My hope is that sufficient military pressure will bring Russia to the table. Sadly if violence is the only language Russia will respond to we have few choices in our actions.

Just to be clear though I'm not advocating sending the laser kiwi. We don't want to unleash that kind of destructive capability on Russia. Reasonable usen9f force only.

paddy234

Given that the war is now mostly confined to the Donbass region for the most part most definitely not. The west should be only helping in a humanitarian way and not trying to inflame this. Unfortunately Ukraine is stuck in between a power struggle between east and west

BEVS

Agree.

LittleGreyCat

Not sure what this means.

If, for example, China invaded NZ South Island and occupied everything south of Christchurch would you be in favour of the rest of the world sending only humanitarian aid and encouraging NZ to negotiate a ceasefire and let China keep everything they have occupied?

paddy234

This is in no way similar. This war is a continuation of a conflict that has been ongoing for 8 years in which prior to the invasion 15,000 people had already been killed not to mention the Donbass region is for the most part a Pro Russian territory, Crimea even more so with only 15% of it's population identifying at Ukrainian. In fact no-one from the UK could argue against the partition of Ukraine unless they also argued against the partition of Ireland. This conflict isn't just one country invading an entirely different ethnicity, after the breakup of the USSR the handing over of different territories was incredibly messy and this conflict is a continuation of that. With Ukraine moving ever closer to the west, a country with deep cultural and political ties to Russia it is clear there has been a rift growing for sometime within the country and Russia is supporting the Pro Russian regions while the west is supporting the Pro Western regions. It's quite sad the way millions of ordinary people are caught up in this power struggle.

Another thing i don't like is that the West hold's itself to some higher standard when just a few years ago we had political leaders who deliberately lied in order to justify the invasions of a nation that cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of people. Where innocent people were killed without regard. Imagine if the rest of the world had of sanctioned all those nations involved, banned it's politicians, elite and even athletes from partaking in international events. Calling for these leaders to be held accountable for war crimes. This hypocrisy therefore only exposes the reasons they give for defending Ukraine are not at all genuine and that there is a greater purpose behind it, perhaps to weaken Russia and to punish it for acting out in defiance of the current order. Russia and China in particular have wanted to break off from this world order for some time in which the US holds the dominant position, what we are seeing is that these superpowers saying to the west we don't need you as much as you think and our international affairs will be dictated by our own interests and not yours. This is just the way of the world now, China and India are both increasing importing goods from Russia, it's clear whose side they are on. Look at the deal with the Solomon Islands. It's feels like the world is militarizing once more getting ready for the inevitable. Hopefully it doesn't come to that and that it merely stays as a cold war at most. One thing i know is for certain, pro-longing the war isn't going to help the Ukrainian people at all

Justcol

The way comrade Ardern has carried on, I'm not sure I would notice a difference 😂😂