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Potted guide to politics please

Potted guide to politics please

Old May 29th 2014, 9:37 pm
  #31  
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Default Re: Potted guide to politics please

Originally Posted by davros1984
Cannot believe the nonsense on this thread,especially the letter to Germany, oh welL.
Sadly Germany has not yet responded either .

I can't see how people could be as dismissive of the benefits of being from an EU member state. Even when questioned the best UKIP can come up with is that they'll work out some solution where the UK can have both the penny and the bun. e.g. Access to the Schengen for UK passport holders area but an isolationist immigration policy, access to the free markets without following EU directives, the ability to influence European politics without a seat at the table.

Even they don’t dare admit they have no idea how they would leave the EU much less how they would do so on their own terms. It doesn’t even achieve half of what they think it does either as, for example, the UK would still be subject to European Court of Human Rights rulings because many European agreements transcend EU membership.
Originally Posted by davros1984
Forget specific policies or any left or right leaning preference. The reason UKIP appeals is that their first and simple principle is for UK governments to have the freedom to govern the county and have the ability to address issues that are of concern to the public. That is what its all about. The liberals and labour party seem completely opposed to that principal, hence the use of the term liberal fascists.

I do not belive I am a xenophobe, I simply believe in the above principal and the right of self-determination via democracy.
Which the UK has by electing MEPs directly to the European Parliament and the elected government appointing European Commissioners.

British people complaining about how undemocratic the EU is should take a look at the UKs electoral and governmental systems. The UK still has archaic hangovers like hereditary peerage and monarchy.

Surely any system that uses representative and participatory democracy, as the EU does, is self-evidently better as a democratic system than a system based on hereditary peerage and devolved monarchy as the UK is.

The argument that the EU is somehow undemocratic is completely farcical. I could entertain arguments about transparency and if European Commissioners should be elected on a representative basis instead of appointed by elected national governments but I will not entertain the idea that the EU suffers from some sort of democratic deficit when compared with the UK.
Originally Posted by davros1984
Those who think WP is a racist or xenophobe really have their heads in the sand. He wants NZ'ers to have a fair crack, young kiwi's and families are priced out in Auckland. National's ideas and Labours ideas are making it harder and harder for average kiwi's to live a simple life, i.e. affordable housing, being able to bring up kids in a simple environment. I left Auckland (and NZ) for that reason.

Its a pity that so many,particularly those are well off are so removed from those working class individuals who are really struggling. That is what WP represents. How is it good for NZ to let wealthy chinese buy up the best NZ farms? The lost revenue from asset sales, how will that income be replaced in years to come? What are the government doing to make housing more affordable for the young? Nothing! Instead they allow non-nz residents to buy up all the houses in Auckland they want. Disgusting.
Always easier to blame a minority though isn't it rather than getting to work on a plan that would actually increase the supply of affordable housing? Almost no action has been taken and already we are blaming foreign investment (that most countries would welcome) for a problem we created. Even the simplest steps like applying a Capital Gains Tax have not even been considered.

There has been no effort to get out in front of this at all.
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Old May 30th 2014, 3:37 am
  #32  
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Default Re: Potted guide to politics please

Originally Posted by Charismatic
Sadly Germany has not yet responded either .

I can't see how people could be as dismissive of the benefits of being from an EU member state. Even when questioned the best UKIP can come up with is that they'll work out some solution where the UK can have both the penny and the bun. e.g. Access to the Schengen for UK passport holders area but an isolationist immigration policy, access to the free markets without following EU directives, the ability to influence European politics without a seat at the table.

Even they don’t dare admit they have no idea how they would leave the EU much less how they would do so on their own terms. It doesn’t even achieve half of what they think it does either as, for example, the UK would still be subject to European Court of Human Rights rulings because many European agreements transcend EU membership.
Which the UK has by electing MEPs directly to the European Parliament and the elected government appointing European Commissioners.

British people complaining about how undemocratic the EU is should take a look at the UKs electoral and governmental systems. The UK still has archaic hangovers like hereditary peerage and monarchy.

Surely any system that uses representative and participatory democracy, as the EU does, is self-evidently better as a democratic system than a system based on hereditary peerage and devolved monarchy as the UK is.

The argument that the EU is somehow undemocratic is completely farcical. I could entertain arguments about transparency and if European Commissioners should be elected on a representative basis instead of appointed by elected national governments but I will not entertain the idea that the EU suffers from some sort of democratic deficit when compared with the UK.
Always easier to blame a minority though isn't it rather than getting to work on a plan that would actually increase the supply of affordable housing? Almost no action has been taken and already we are blaming foreign investment (that most countries would welcome) for a problem we created. Even the simplest steps like applying a Capital Gains Tax have not even been considered.

There has been no effort to get out in front of this at all.
Well said!

I want to see all this energy put into forward movement, not pointlessly trying to turn back the clock.
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Old May 30th 2014, 7:44 am
  #33  
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Default Re: Potted guide to politics please

Originally Posted by Charismatic
There has been no effort to get out in front of this at all.

Because a generation of people or more have internalised the endless EU bashing from the tabloids; straight bananas etc. whereas all the valuable stuff gets rubbished, ignored or dismissed.

Knowing a few East European immigrants to the UK, there's one reason that stands out why they consider the UK as a destination: across much of the former Eastern bloc, for some time, they've been taught English as a second language in schools, rather than German, French or Russian, let alone Italian or Spanish. What's more, cultural imports; TV, movies, music: all in English. They can gain a foothold pretty quickly.

How many expat Brits here would have moved to New Zealand if they had to learn another language?

Not many, is my guess.
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Old May 30th 2014, 1:40 pm
  #34  
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Default Re: Potted guide to politics please

Originally Posted by Charismatic
Always easier to blame a minority though isn't it rather than getting to work on a plan that would actually increase the supply of affordable housing? Almost no action has been taken and already we are blaming foreign investment (that most countries would welcome) for a problem we created. Even the simplest steps like applying a Capital Gains Tax have not even been considered.

There has been no effort to get out in front of this at all.
Exactly. Then people start saying stupid things, like "it's all because of the foreigners" (albeit using the language of the 'modern racist' who is most careful to resist the label with appeals to common sense thinking and claims of neutrality and objectivity) and anyone who challenges that assertion is seen as not understanding the problem.
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Old May 30th 2014, 3:36 pm
  #35  
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Default Re: Potted guide to politics please

Originally Posted by bourbon-biscuit
Exactly. Then people start saying stupid things, like "it's all because of the foreigners" (albeit using the language of the 'modern racist' who is most careful to resist the label with appeals to common sense thinking and claims of neutrality and objectivity) and anyone who challenges that assertion is seen as not understanding the problem.
Your comment reminded me of something I read on Stuff the other day. The article was written by a woman in her late 50's who has been struggling to find a job. One of the comments on the article was about "all the foreigners snapping up the office jobs in NZ so that they can get residency." Oh how clueless and darn right silly to post such a comment on a news website read by thousands of expats every day! Another example of playing the foreigner card when it clearly has no place. Was like reading a snippet out of a UK tabloid!

Anyways...

Last edited by Pom_Chch; May 30th 2014 at 3:38 pm.
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Old Jun 2nd 2014, 8:35 am
  #36  
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Default Re: Potted guide to politics please

Originally Posted by davros1984
Cannot believe the nonsense on this thread,especially the letter to Germany, oh welL.

Forget specific policies or any left or right leaning preference. The reason UKIP appeals is that their first and simple principle is for UK governments to have the freedom to govern the country and have the ability to address issues that are of concern to the public. That is what its all about. The liberals and labour party seem completely opposed to that principal, hence the use of the term liberal fascists.

I do not belive I am a xenophobe, I simply believe in the above principal and the right of self-determination via democracy. Having lived in NZ, it seems bonkers that the UK does not have that.

Those who think WP is a racist or xenophobe really have their heads in the sand. He wants NZ'ers to have a fair crack, young kiwi's and families are priced out in Auckland. National's ideas and Labours ideas are making it harder and harder for average kiwi's to live a simple life, i.e. affordable housing, being able to bring up kids in a simple environment. I left Auckland (and NZ) for that reason (as well as other reasons).

Its a pity that so many,particularly those are well off are so removed from those working class individuals who are really struggling. That is what WP represents. How is it good for NZ to let wealthy chinese buy up the best NZ farms? The lost revenue from asset sales, how will that income be replaced in years to come? What are the government doing to make housing more affordable for the young? Nothing! Instead they allow non-nz residents to buy up all the houses in Auckland they want. Disgusting.
On the NZ part, perhaps a capital gains tax could be introduced but I can't see that in any of the manifestos here. I recently read that the average house price in Auckland is $700,000. Also, are there banks that allow these foreign buyers to purchase? Only all the mortgage applications I've looked at, you have to at least be a resident of NZ. Good luck if you're on a work visa

So far, I'd say only the Greens are to the left. The rest are all right wing nutjobs. This David Cuncliffe bloke sounds like Nigel Farage.

The UK part, UKIP are only being noted because they'll say they'll sort those pesky Romanians/Bulgarians out or get us out of the EU. Kindly putting it, have you ever read up on the EU? Take a look at the treaty of Rome, the treaty of Schendglen (think that's it) and the endless freedoms Europe has given to the UK. I do agree that there should be some rules on movement, especially around the benefit payments. Something similar the Aussies have to the Kiwis wouldn't go a miss.

If you think UKIP are the way forward for housing, for the NHS, police, social life etc - then you may want to read their frightening manifesto. I can give you their NHS policy, the US health system. Quite frankly, I can't believe the Tories and UKIP want a rip off unaffordable health system like the Americans have. Do you want to fork out $5000 in order to have a baby in a hospital?
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Old Jun 2nd 2014, 9:08 am
  #37  
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Default Re: Potted guide to politics please

Originally Posted by Blade Down Under
Only all the mortgage applications I've looked at, you have to at least be a resident of NZ.
* or have a crap load of money to put down as a deposit. Money talks!
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