Politics/Election

Old Nov 21st 2011, 4:36 am
  #16  
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Default Re: Politics/Election

I’m voting for them as well Kiwi but mostly on income inequality grounds.

However they are also right about the need to implement tighter water quality standard, the current proposals took years and are a complete joke.
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Old Nov 21st 2011, 5:13 am
  #17  
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Default Re: Politics/Election

Originally Posted by Expat Kiwi
I'm voting Green, can't think why anyone would want to vote for either of the two main parties - both are flawed, self serving and tainted by their leaders images.

Green Party wants
  • 100,000 kids out of poverty by 2014.
  • Plan to clean up New Zealand's rivers and lakes.
  • Green jobs for New Zealanders

Other priorities they are focussing on include

•Transport
•Country of Origin labelling
•Rebuilding Christchurch
•Conservation
•Equal Pay
•Keep it Kiwi - foreign ownership

Make perfect sense to me. How can you not vote for them?

http://www.greens.org.nz/issues
I could not vote for them (when in the past I may well have) as they have caused some huge problems. I understand they had a huge say in getting untreated wood into the building game early 2000 ish time and this lead to many leaky homes simply dissolving. Whilst the leaks were not caused by the untreated wood (that was shite workmanship and greedy bastard developers cutting corners) it was the wet wood that ultimately ruined a house that COULD have been saved had they used decent, treated wood. There are other areas I have heard about where they have meddled to the detriment of whatever they were trying to sort out. I like the above issues they want to get to grips with but not sure if they are the right people to get them done.
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Old Nov 21st 2011, 5:17 am
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Default Re: Politics/Election

Originally Posted by Expat Kiwi
I'm voting Green, can't think why anyone would want to vote for either of the two main parties - both are flawed, self serving and tainted by their leaders images.

Green Party wants
  • 100,000 kids out of poverty by 2014.
  • Plan to clean up New Zealand's rivers and lakes.
  • Green jobs for New Zealanders

Other priorities they are focussing on include

•Transport
•Country of Origin labelling
•Rebuilding Christchurch
•Conservation
•Equal Pay
•Keep it Kiwi - foreign ownership

Make perfect sense to me. How can you not vote for them?

http://www.greens.org.nz/issues
I still think you are wasting your electorate vote by voting green, fine for party vote on current polling where it will deliver you list MPs.
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Old Nov 21st 2011, 5:21 am
  #19  
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Default Re: Politics/Election

I agree the Greens have suffered from ideology over common sense and I do not think that they would offer a viable alternative to actually govern the country.

But I will give them my party vote for them this year. Why? Because I do strongly think that NZ is wasting time and opportunity to be a world leader in sustainable living and with the Green getting a larger proportion of the vote, it will force the other major parties to bring their polices more into line with "green" ideals.
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Old Nov 21st 2011, 5:26 am
  #20  
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Default Re: Politics/Election

Originally Posted by luvwelly
I still think you are wasting your electorate vote by voting green, fine for party vote on current polling where it will deliver you list MPs.
I wished I understood all what you lot know so much about. Lists, Party votes, MMP et al..I am so out of my comfort zone. I know I am being a dumb blonde (grey actually).

Still think I will vote for Winnie.
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Old Nov 21st 2011, 5:44 am
  #21  
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Default Re: Politics/Election

If many more people post who are going to vote Green we’ll have to sit around a campfire with a guitar singing and eating lentils. You don’t have to believe a party would be good in government to vote for them, in fact if you vote for minority parties it’s likely you are voting strategically (Peters being the exception now he ruled himself out of the game).

I have no reason to see why the Greens couldn’t govern well in coalition as they have done before and in other countries. Not a perfect record but then which party does have a perfect record of getting thing right every time?

Anyway interesting comments from Key:
"There's actually a collection of parties - not just New Zealand First - the Greens and the Mana Party all of which want to spend a lot more money, all of which are volatile," Key said.

"A vote for Winston Peters is a vote for a Phil Goff-led government," he said, adding that he doesn't think New Zealand First will make it back to Parliament anyway.
Doesn't sound like he needs many allies . I guess the point is if he really wants to shove unpopular policies down the throats of Kiwis he needs a majority government .
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Old Nov 21st 2011, 8:04 am
  #22  
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Default Re: Politics/Election

Originally Posted by lardyl
Key may have been a safe pair of hands and a likeable bloke but the current climate requires more than that and I too can see him in for a rough time if his party are in government.

Selling off state assets is pretty outdated to me - been done before here and was not a bundle of laughs and it's never going to work the way it did in the UK where privitisations brought lots of small investor capital into the equity markets and got people interested in the stock exchange. Not to mention getting the efficiency improvements many of the organisations needed - don't see how Air New Zealand is going to deliver a better service when 40% of it is owned offshore.

Failing to push the retirement age up is short-sighted and not at all modern.

Delivering tax cuts and benefits to the rich and asset rich is old school as well.

None of this will wash in 12 months never mind 3 years and there may be some serious consequences.
I'd agree we need more than a likeable bloke. Part of the problem is NZ's ridiculously short electoral terms at 3 years, that plus his efficient handling of the two major disasters Christchurch & Pike River, and he doesn't seem to have upset enough people for them to want change.

However I feel they have made bad decisions, that plus that they seem to have very few long term policies, means my vote won't be going National.

They gave Income Tax cuts that the country couldn't afford, leading to more debt. Then GST has risen to try compensate despite a pledge not to raise it, then there's hidden tax rises in the Kiwi Saver cuts - less govt contribution and the employers contribution becoming taxable to the employee.

I'd agree partial state assets sales is a bad idea, you can only sell them once. It's like selling part of the house to pay the mortgage, yet you still need to live there. Long term those shares will go abroad, just look Utilities in the UK and the no. that are now in foreign ownership.

State retirement age has to rise, other sensible govts have already made that decision. At least Labour are doing something here, but even that's been implemented too slowly. Yet, because of Key's ridiculous pledge not to up at, they're snookered, even Bill English et al know it's necessary. There's no way people currently in their mid 40's and younger will be seeing a state pension at 65, it's giving people less time to adjust.

I also think Capital Gains Tax is fair tax. It's just not been properly sold.

It's strange that despite MMP electoral system that there's no significant third party in NZ except the Greens. Maybe it because except on a few issues, there's not a great split between National & Labour, both trying to grab the middle ground.

Originally Posted by luvwelly
Yes he will win for sure and the assets will be sold. But eventually his honeymoon will end and maybe the media will start giving him a harder time and give the opposition some positive coverage for a change and so make it less likely that he 'walks it' next time....which is only 3 years away after all.

A lot of the negative perceptions of Phil Goff are media-led. Genesis - Phil is much more like you than John Key!. I know which I'd trust in the jungle the most.
I'd agree re: the negative perceptions of Phil Goff, much of it is media led of the last 3 years. He's actually debated well with John Key.
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Old Nov 21st 2011, 9:31 am
  #23  
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Default Re: Politics/Election

As you say, it's the third largest party in New Zealand with 6.7% of the vote at the last election and increasing their number of MPs from 6 to 9.

It's amazing what such a small party has already achieved. 100,000 NZ homes are warmer thanks to the Greens Heat Smart home insulation scheme, it worked with National on the national cycleway project, introduced the anti-smacking legislation, ensured that a register of grossly contaminated land is set up and is working on ways to reduce pest numbers using traps not toxic chemicals.

All their 2011 achievements are listed here http://www.greens.org.nz/achievements
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Old Nov 21st 2011, 9:41 pm
  #24  
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Default Re: Politics/Election

Originally Posted by Genesis
I wished I understood all what you lot know so much about. Lists, Party votes, MMP et al..I am so out of my comfort zone. I know I am being a dumb blonde (grey actually).

Still think I will vote for Winnie.
In Palmy North I assume your Electorate Seat is held by Labour, probably with National in second place (just guessing), so if you cast your electorate vote for Winston based on the polls, you are throwing it away and likely letting National in. (This bit works exactly like FPP in UK...winner takes all within a small geographical area).

However your party vote will count for Winston Peters provided NZ First gets 5% share of party votes across the country (based on polls they may but remember last time they did not). So you are still at risk of your vote not counting if you want to make an anti-National protest vote. A vote for Labour or Green will definitely count based on the current polls.

Also check out NZ First a bit more, they are rather anti-immigrant/migrant.
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Old Nov 22nd 2011, 4:59 am
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Default Re: Politics/Election

Just got a phone call from a lady (sounded about 16 yrs old) saying she was phoning from the National Party.
Quite rudely she demanded to know: 'Are you voting on Saturday?'
Me: 'Er, yes.'

'Will you be voting for...?

'But not for you. Byee'

Drat should have kept her talking....

Wonder if she was going to offer me lift to the polling station?
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Old Nov 22nd 2011, 5:40 am
  #26  
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Default Re: Politics/Election

Getting into a car full of National supporters might be kind of fun luvwelly. You could say lots of factual negative things and keep ending with the words “All that being said I’m still voting National”.

It could also be a kind of hell however.
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Old Nov 22nd 2011, 7:06 am
  #27  
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Default Re: Politics/Election

Originally Posted by Charismatic
Getting into a car full of National supporters might be kind of fun luvwelly. You could say lots of factual negative things and keep ending with the words “All that being said I’m still voting National”.

It could also be a kind of hell however.
Indeed ...of course I'm not old enough to need a lift but some of my neighbours maybe are.

Just watched the child health inequality doco on TV3. It was rather like a party political for the Labour Party but sound nonetheless. Prevention is better than delayed expensive cure. Kids are our future - shouldn't be punished for the fecklessness of their parents etc etc. Poor damp unregulated housing stock the cause of many preventable diseases. The message from Sweden was that all sides of the political spectrum believed it ethical to provide free services for kids - a bit like the argument for UK NHS.

Last edited by luvwelly; Nov 22nd 2011 at 7:11 am.
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Old Nov 22nd 2011, 7:24 am
  #28  
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Default Re: Politics/Election

Originally Posted by Charismatic
Getting into a car full of National supporters might be kind of fun luvwelly. You could say lots of factual negative things and keep ending with the words “All that being said I’m still voting National”.

It could also be a kind of hell however.
Oxymoron?
Labour supporters catch the bus
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Old Nov 22nd 2011, 7:31 am
  #29  
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Default Re: Politics/Election

Originally Posted by Browner_
Oxymoron?
Labour supporters catch the bus
Nope. My Dad used to do the 'give the old dears' a lift to the polling station thing and he wasn't doing it for the Tories (1970s)!.

I reckon it's the Greens who catch the bus these days lol. Actually I will be walking to the polling station, it's only round the corner.
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Old Nov 22nd 2011, 7:32 am
  #30  
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Default Re: Politics/Election

...and Greens would bike?

I'm not swayed by arguments regarding children but income inequality; there is something we can all agree needs sorting out.
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